Tipping

[sunseeker]

I think if the wage structure of a whole industry is structured in such a fashion, it is harsh to lay your criticism at the feet of the boss. While you may agree or disagree with the business model of the industry, it is what it is and I don't think it adds anything to the discussion here.

Personally we will generally tip at about the 18% maybe slightly more or slightly less given the service. Generally the level of service is very good. If we do have an issue with the service and we decide that we will leave a poor tip or none at all, however, we will discuss this with a manager - we do not want them to think that we are simply not tipping as we are foreign tourists - we want them to know that we are dissatisfied.

Your post has more or less mirrored my own! I'm not sure what your point is if you do as i do and leave very little or no tip at all for poor service.. If you feel that the waiting staff should be subsidised by the paying public then why not leave 18 to 20% every time.

Dave

[Lyn]

I have been sat here reading the comments and deciding whether to reply.

I understand how you can feel that 18% or thereabouts is a huge amount but in a lot of cases the wait staff do not get any/much in wages. There are get out clauses in the minimum wage legislation that allows restaurants to barely pay these people so the tips are important.

I do think that the fundemental difference is how wait staff are viewed on the opposite sides of the Atlantic. In the US many people choose it as a job because they can make a very good living. They aspire to the better restaurants as a career move. A waiter/waitress in somewhere like Jiko can make over $600 in an evening.

In the UK we tend to see it as a stop gap. There is still a 'service' type attitude towards it.

Personally I think a good waiter/waitress can make our break your whole experience.

We always tip for good service, however I refuse to feel obliged to tip becauce the salaries are poor, that is between the waiters and the employers and nothing to do with me. If I receive bad service I would not leave a tip, however I woul give the restaurant the benefit of the doubt and return on a 2nd occasion, if the service was again poor I would not return.

[Andrena]

I agree with Lyn, we tip the usual amount, except when a bill says that a gratuity has been included. In that case I do not feel obliged to leave any extra. Our American friends do this also. I also never add the tip to the credit card tab, I leave it separately. If they pool their tips then that is OK, but if not then I have only tipped the person who gave me the service. I am always wary that the staff do not get the tips which are included on the credit card - they may do, but I prefer to do it separately.

Andrena

[sammibabe]

I agree with Lyn, we tip the usual amount, except when a bill says that a gratuity has been included. In that case I do not feel obliged to leave any extra. Our American friends do this also. I also never add the tip to the credit card tab, I leave it separately. If they pool their tips then that is OK, but if not then I have only tipped the person who gave me the service. I am always wary that the staff do not get the tips which are included on the credit card - they may do, but I prefer to do it separately.

Andrena

I agree, we always leave seperately. They may get it off the card, if I leave the cash I know they have.

[vickk]

I agree, we always leave seperately. They may get it off the card, if I leave the cash I know they have.

so at places like perkins or bob evans where they ask you to pay at the till do you give seperate to the server or at the till

[sammibabe]

so at places like perkins or bob evans where they ask you to pay at the till do you give seperate to the server or at the till

We have a tot up of our spend and leave it on the table; if there is an easier way of doing it I'd appreciate it!

[MTP]

I think if the wage structure of a whole industry is structured in such a fashion, it is harsh to lay your criticism at the feet of the boss. While you may agree or disagree with the business model of the industry, it is what it is and I don't think it adds anything to the discussion here.

Personally we will generally tip at about the 18% maybe slightly more or slightly less given the service. Generally the level of service is very good. If we do have an issue with the service and we decide that we will leave a poor tip or none at all, however, we will discuss this with a manager - we do not want them to think that we are simply not tipping as we are foreign tourists - we want them to know that we are dissatisfied.

Your post has more or less mirrored my own! I'm not sure what your point is if you do as i do and leave very little or no tip at all for poor service.. If you feel that the waiting staff should be subsidised by the paying public then why not leave 18 to 20% every time.

Dave

The two points that I was trying to make were:

1 - the business model of the industry is what it is; regardless of whither we agree with it or not; therefore I do not feel that it is necessarily just some nominal boss that it is too blame, it is the whole industry.

2 - I do agree with you not to feel obliged to tip for poor service, regardless of the financial model of the business. I think, however, it is far better to do so and also inform a restaurant manager so that it is not just assumed that you don't understand the etiquette of tipping. To just tip poorly or not at all could just perpetuate the image that tourists don't know how things are done, rather than conveying the message that you were dissatisfied with your service.

[Katys Grandad]

The way I see it is the menu price is from 80% of the cost with up to 20% variable dependant on quality of service. Rather than the menu price being 20% higher with no incentive to the server to give good service.

Or to put it another way, the menu price is based on poor service. If you want the wait staff to do their job properly then you're going to have to pay quite a bit more than that. It's a bit like saying, "our chef will make a lousy job of cooking your meal at that price but if you pay a bit more, he/she'll make it worth you coming in here".

I would have hoped that the 'incentive' would be professional pride and keeping your customers coming back and you in a job. Whichever way you cut it, it's them who are paying your wages.

I do tip fairly generously but it's mainly because I feel it's expected of me not because I've had something extra that I'm not actually entitled to. I suppose I'm part of the problem really because maybe I should be tipping (or not) on the quality of the service rather than on the implied obligation because I'm in a country with that culture.

As far as your point about people tipping less in this financial climate goes, I think we're all having to try that bit harder for the same or less these days if we want to stay in work. Wait staff haven't any right to be immune from that.

[steph_goodrum]

so at places like perkins or bob evans where they ask you to pay at the till do you give seperate to the server or at the till

If the wait staff are being attentive they should always be able to be found easily so we just give it to the person who has served us the most, that way you can also thank them personally which goes a long way to making the job more rewarding (I used to work in one albeit only Sats. when younger and remember that appreciation is always important), whether it is the Golden Corral or a higher price restaurant. The tax system doesnt help with the Employers being able to offset some of the "minimum wage" they pay (I think offhand it's something like 25/30% they can deduct as being made up with tips and the Employees get taxed as though they had earnt that much regarless of whether the Employer has a good enough set up to ensure that they do receive at least that much.

[SDJ]

We were told by a waiter who worked at one of the chains that they get automatically taxed 8% of whatever bills they have dealt with. That means that if you don't leave a tip for whatever reason, they will be charged 8% of your bill in any case, so if you leave 10%, they will only receive 2%. That is why for the most part, service is pretty reasonable or they would be out of pocket. It sometimes is not the fault of the waiting staff if the food is poorly turned out, but they suffer the consequences. That is one of the reasons that they get paid a very low wage as they are expected to get income from the tips.