who is it?

[steph_goodrum]

If we go right back to the beginning Carrie and read it , it still reads the same way.
"A man is sitting at the bar in a pub looking at a photograph of a man.

2nd man walks over and says, who is that photo of?

1st man says, you will have to guess i will give you a clue.
"Brothers and sisters i have none, but this mansfather is my fathers son,

Who is the photo of?"

As we said it says "this mans father " is my fathers son. Everyone seems to agree that as the person speaking has "no brothers and sisters", he is the only person who could be his fathers son.
So if the speaker is "this mans father" then that means that he is the father of the man in the picture , so the picture is of his son.

[huckleberry house]

Here we go again,
Now listen carefully I will say this only 10 or so more times :-)


Steph, you say if the speaker is this mans Father, but he isnt this mans father ,he is the man in the picture, nowhere does the puzzle say that the speaker is the man in the pictures Father.I think the basic misunderstanding is that there are three generations but there arent there is only two, the speaker ( who is also the man in the picture ) and his Father, the reference to son is referring to himself not his son. This Mans Father is my Fathers son is referring to the same person hence needing a reference to having no brothers or sisters, if the picture was of the Mans son that reference would not have been required.

Yes the puzzle could have said "this man is my fathers son" but it would hardly have classed as a puzzle then would it.

As Carrie posted the puzzle and has the answer in the book as well it really should be time to give it up and accept gracefully that the answer all along was himself, that after all is why it is a puzzle because it takes a while to figure it out.

Lesley

[hamish]

It,s himself on a block of ice.

[rainyday]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by huckleberry house
nowhere does the puzzle say that the speaker is the man in the pictures Father.[/quote]

Staying cool,calm and collected at the request of carrie, I'll stick to the facts.

Fact 1
my father's son = speaker (as he has no siblings)

Fact 2
this man = the man in the photograph

Fact 3
this man's father = the father of the man in the photograph

Fact 4
this man's father = my father's son (given in the puzzle)

If you disagree at this point, please post and let me know what specifically you can't understand.

So recapping Fact 1 and Fact 4

1: my father's son = speaker
4: this man's father = my father's son

gives us

5: this man's father = speaker

and throwing in Fact 3

3: this man's father = the father of the man in the photograph

gives our final facts:

6: speaker = the father of the man in the photograph

7: the man in the photo is the speaker's son

I'm going back to planning my holiday which is what I have found this board really useful for - I can't believe I got sucked into this. Part of me thinks that Lesley and carrie are doing this to wind Nostromo, steph and me up but I fear not.

[Nostromo]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:[i]Originally posted by rainyday

Part of me thinks that Lesley and carrie are doing this to wind Nostromo, steph and me up.
[/quote]

You know Rainyday, I think you are absolutely right. There is an old proverb about throwing stones......you know the one I mean. I am also going to sign off this nonsense from now on.

[steph_goodrum]

Lesley at the risk of getting the other nine "last times thrown at me" I'll just try and explain once more why I am still convinced the book is wrong.

"This Mans Father is my Fathers son is referring to the same person hence needing a reference to having no brothers or sisters, if the picture was of the Mans son that reference would not have been required"

The reference to no brothers and sisters seems to apply to the speaker ( he doesnt say it refers to the man in the photo). The reason it is needed is (sisters are irrelevant) if the speaker (for arguments sake call him Joe) has 2 brothers called Fred and Charlie, then the person in the photos father could have been either Joe, Fred or Charlie so could have been the speakers nephew.

As Joe is his fathers only son then the man in the photos FATHER must be Joe. and the man in photo is JOes son.

"Yes the puzzle could have said "this man is my fathers son" but it would hardly have classed as a puzzle then would it."

If the puzzle had said "this man is my fathers son" then yes it would be the speaker but that is not the wording in the puzzle i.e
it says "this mans FATHER is my fathers son" and that changes it completely.
We're obviously not going to agree on this one, but at least it's made Carrie forget about her holiday for a while so it's a bit closer now.

[brizzle]

Can I try and sum this up (without getting dragged into it) [msntongue]:

The phrase "my fathers son" can only be the man looking at the photo (the speaker giving the clue) because he is an only child.

So we can therefore replace the "my fathers son" part of the clue with "me" leaving us with.

"This mans father is me"

Therefore it has to be a picture of his son.

[tezz7628]

to continue

all the jacks are laid face up and remain in place

next to the jack of hearts is laid ace to 10 of hearts
next to the jack of diamonds is laid ace to 10 of diamond
etc

now the cards need collecting face up one on top of each other
from ace of clubs then ace of spades, then ace of diamonds, then ace of hearts, then 2 of clubs
etc

finishing with 10 of hearts on top of pile

now turn the cards over and in pack order lay the cards out in rows of ten from top left to bottom right

so you have ended up with 4 jacks face up and 4 rows of ten cards face down

"i can tell you the position of each card if you ask me??"

says the person doing the trick

how?

[huckleberry house]

Okay lets try and make this even easier to understand

The picture is of HIM, therefore
"This mans Father = MY DAD,



Is my fathers son =MY DADS son = HIMSELF as he is an only child.

Lesley

[steph_goodrum]

Lesley
To follow on from your explanation how can
My dad is my fathers son be true, if you agree my fathers son is himself (as he has no brothers)?
It is saying "my dad is me"

whereas if you take the picture to be of the speakers son (humour us)then you are saying "his dad is me".