Quote Originally Posted by SteveandJan View Post
I am very unhappy with the EU and I have never had a chance to vote. For me like Denise it's about the future of my children. I don't believe it is a good thing, even before the financial problems. At the moment the UK government is taking the Commission to court because the EU commission wants the largest clearing house on financial transactions to locate out of the UK. That's says it all for me. Financial Services are a big service sector in the UK and this would have a huge impact on revenue and jobs for the UK, if they get their way. They churn out directive after directive every day. The UK pays in more than we get back, so I think it's time to say, it really hasn't worked for us. Anyway, who on earth thought a one size fits all would work. It would be the same if someone said "hey villa owners, you have to abide by one set of rules regardless of your size of villa", we know it wouldn't work for us and it clearly hasn't worked with the EU.
As I said, for me personally the EU is a good thing. I don't have children, but if I did their current and future well-being would be totally dependant upon the freedom of work and abode that the UK being part of the EU affords me. As is my future and current well-being. I fully understand the issues other people have with the EU and the way it operates for the UK. But that (in my view) is as much down to the way the UK wants (or not) to participate as it is with the way the EU operates.

The Euro in its current form was always going to be difficult to operate. The question is whether the solution is to break it apart and go back to the individual national currencies, or to go to a financial control model where most fiscal policy is set centrally (as in the USA). Personally I'd vote for the latter, because I live in Germany and I'm sick of bailing out "less responsible" countries, but if I lived in Greece or Portugal or even Ireland I'd probably have a different point of view.

Quote Originally Posted by wrpac00 View Post
I think you are missing some of the main points keith. It really bugs me (wanted to use stronger words) when we are told what we can and cannot do, what we can call things and what we cannot and some of the stupid laws they impose on us like letting in doctors that can't speak English or are qualified enough killing Brits is TOTALLY NOT ACCEPTABLE.

Under NO circumstances should the UK be fully in and personally I would prefer us to to be fully out. They all hate us especially France (that's why we will never be part of the club) and we get stitched up time and time again. We put more money into the EU than will ever get out of it so I have never seen any advantages of being in it.
I agree there are many negative points to being in the EU, and I would never argue otherwise. But I think a balanced viewpoint would also reveal many advantages, and the tabloid headline kind of arguments simply serve to obscure the real arguments. I could dig up many examples of jobs that would not exist if it were not for the EU. just as you could probably find many that have been lost because of the EU. I just personally don't believe that a country can stand alone in this day and age, and in fact I doubt many countries actually do, regardless of their sovereign tendencies.

The French don't hate the UK, and neither do the Germans - that's just a typical English egocentric view. On a day-to-day basis they couldn't care less about the UK. The Germans don't even consider England to be their traditional footballing enemy (that would be the Dutch) so they are all amazed when they read that the UK complains constantly about the EU. They just don't understand why the UK tries to be in both camps at once, and doesn't make a decision one way or the other. So in that respect, they are in total agreement with you :-)