Is Panama "out of town"?

[anorak]

Hi all, just wondered if anyone knew the definitive answer to this question I was asked.
A friend is on a Visa Waiver and is going on a 15 day cruise from Fort Lauderdale to Los Angeles through the Panama Canal.
The ship calls at various countries including Colombia, Panama, Costa Rica etc.
When she re-enters the US at the end of the cruise will her 90 day stay clock start ticking again from a new day 1, or did she not go "out of town" far enough or long enough for this to happen?

I know a short trip to Mexico, Canada or the Caribbean Islands, or even a longer stay there doesn't count with US Immigration as "leaving town" but this particular set of circumstances has stumped me.
I realise the cruise does include a "far foreign destination" as far as the Jones Act is concerned or the foreign registered ship could not legally transport passengers from one US port to another but whether this also affects Inmmigration policy or law I just don't know.

[florida4sun]

When we did that they did not issue a new visa waiver.

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by anorak
Hi all, just wondered if anyone knew the definitive answer to this question I was asked.
A friend is on a Visa Waiver and is going on a 15 day cruise from Fort Lauderdale to Los Angeles through the Panama Canal.
The ship calls at various countries including Colombia, Panama, Costa Rica etc.
When she re-enters the US at the end of the cruise will her 90 day stay clock start ticking again from a new day 1, or did she not go "out of town" far enough or long enough for this to happen?

I know a short trip to Mexico, Canada or the Caribbean Islands, or even a longer stay there doesn't count with US Immigration as "leaving town" but this particular set of circumstances has stumped me.
I realise the cruise does include a "far foreign destination" as far as the Jones Act is concerned or the foreign registered ship could not legally transport passengers from one US port to another but whether this also affects Inmmigration policy or law I just don't know.
[/quote]

[DaveL]

Perhaps I can confuse things further.

I came to the U.S. six weeks ago, San Diego, on an ESTA so they know I am in the country. Left on a cruise ship to come to Florida via Panama. When we departed there were no electronic processes as at the airport they just looked at our passport and let us on board. So we may have left the U.S. with no one knowing.

When we arrived at Florida we had to fill in a green visa wavier on board. When we reached the INS guy, again with no scanners, he just took the form and threw it on a pile of similar ones.

The thinking may be that as it started from a U.S. port all the guests must be OK and of course the ship security systems are perfect so no one else could get aboard while on route.

Where is all this leading. Well I think your friend will have the original date they entered the U.S. on some electronic file some where because of ESTA. However they will possibly get two stamps in their passport each each showing a different date and valid number of days to stay. Confused? I know I am.

Dave

[shockey]

We just got back from a cruise (Florida back to Florida) which included Panama and also Colombia. When we returned to the US, we got fingerprinted and photographed, got new stamps in our passports and were asked how long we intended to stay in the US. I did not ask, but it looks like we could have had another 90 days. None of that happened when we returned from short cruises calling only in the islands. I don't know whether it was Panama which made the difference, or Colombia - I cannot find anything on the CBP website which makes it clear.

[anorak]

Just to make things even less clear the entry stamps from US immigration I have seen in UK passports recently do not specify a length of stay or valid until date.
Kinda leaves people up in the air.
And if you ask the US immigration officer it does rather make it look like you might want to stay a long time in the US.

Its not getting any easier.

[shockey]

I happened to come across the regulation dealing with this. It is here:

http://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/S...ml#0-0-0-14773

You keep your visa waiver status if you return to the US after going to a "foreign contiguous territory" (i.e. Canada or Mexico) or "adjacent island". Panama is neither a contiguous territory nor an island, so you have to go through the full admission process when you return to the US.

[anorak]

Thanks to Susan and Martin for finding this official and definitive rule which I wouldn't mind betting is sometimes ignored as per Florida4sun's experience.

Cheers!

[Andrena]

I am not sure how this works for people who actually have a B1/B2 visa which allows 6 months stay? We have friends who have 'lived' in Florida for almost 4 years on one of those Visas. They go twice a year for about 3 weeks to visit their son in Canada and then return and get a further 6 months. They do have a permanent home, which of course they don't really stay in in the UK and of course UK bank accounts and get their funds transferred from the UK regularly.

We have one of those Visa's and when we went to Canada once we did get a further 6 months, but not sure whether it would work on a regular basis.

Andrena

[florida4sun]

Ahh but this is where people slip up. This is not a definitive rule, it is a guide and individual officers can pretty much do what they like.
They question you will need to answer is why do you need the extended time. If you cannot give a valid reason or one that satisfies them (or have a history of border hopping) then it is likely they will only grant you he balance.
And before any star tsp reaching the rules and regs, take up at point of entry. They area law unto themselves and will always errr on the side of caution.


<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by anorak
Thanks to Susan and Martin for finding this official and definitive rule which I wouldn't mind betting is sometimes ignored as per Florida4sun's experience.

Cheers!
[/quote]

[fvhw]

I'd like to add my 2 cents worth, each time one of my friends (which is from Panama) comes to visit,
she goes through the full immigration process, no matter how long she stays, and she's been granted up to 6 months
at one point. I feel as several have said that this is all up to the immigration officer.
Hope this helps,
Christine