I don't think any of us could say if your money is safe..I don't think how much you pay has much to do with it..I've seen bad homes that cost a lot to rent...and good homes that are cheaper..things can go belly up for anyone very quickly..but you take that risk even with a travel company..I would pay a deposit and keep the rest in the bank..
Have a great holiday..
Interesting thread, sorry to drag it up, I take 3 holidays per year, 1 to USA, 1 to Tenerife and 1 to Majorca.
At each of these holidays I always rent a villa, this year was very interesting, and clearly due to the recession I was able to negotiate fantastic rates with the villa owners. Bookings this year have been down in these countries from between 30% and 50% and the owners have had to realise that if they want bookings they need to reduce their prices, for example the villa we stayed in 2 weeks ago in Majorca - MID August - advetised for 2495 Euros, (that is what they quoted me) in the end I paid just 700 Euros for the week, the booking was extreme last minute, just 3 days before we arrived, but villa owners have started to realise that 700 Euros is better than none at all! for that week.
And things aren't getting any better in the UK or USA so when I book my villa for March 2010 I will be laughing at the prices the villa owners come back with and I guarantee I will get at least 20-30% off the quoted prices.
Some of you villa owners may be thinking, noooo way, I won't be reducing my prices, but I think you should all think very carefuly when someone wants a 30% discount off your prices, some money is better than no money at all.
I look at the availability calendars on many villa owners sites and they have sooo many spare weeks, surely some money is better than no money at all!!! Yes I know you have overheads, but they are nowhere near the prices quoted!!
And in response to the original thread, I absolutely would NOT pay for a villa up front like you are thinking of, stick it in a bank account and then pay by credit card, this recession is nowhere near over !!!!!!!!!!!
Hi Mark and welcome eto the forums.
As it's such an old thread I'm sure it won't matter if it's not quite on topis but one of the observations you have bought up interested me.
We have found an increasing tendency for enquirers to do exactly what you have suggested and it intrigues me somewhat as to how the conclusions you make are arrived at, not just by yourself but by many people.
You say you will be laughing at the prices that will be quoted to you as you will obviously feel they are unrealistic, (however on another thread you have already commented that you have many requirements that have not been met on previousl trips, perhaps because you have chosen homes that are cheaper?), yet you do not know the costs of operating the homes as a business. There are so many costs both obvious and hidden, including but not limited to
Mortgage, Property tax, Sales and Tourist taxes (approx 13% of rental in most Counties), Insurance, Hoa fees, Lawncare, Pool maintenance, Pest Control, Electric, Water, Management/Caretaker fees, Cable tv, Internet provider, telephone, licensing fees, adverting and marketing, administration for bookings, computer and office equipment and time in the UK etc. In addition to these costs there is also the unknown/unseen costs such as ongoing maintenance and upkeep, replacement of equipment, appliances, air con, pool heaters etc and the everyday items like bedding, linen etc. which need to be replaced regularly and for which contingency has to be included . This is without the issues of upgrades and extras which all need to be budgeted for.
Many of the costs you may feel are comparable to your own home but the truth is we pay 3-4 times for insurance what we do in the UK for more cover. Our electric and water bills are at least double the rate of our UK home and many other costs do not correlate at all to what we would expect.
If I were to go to Virgin, or Tesco etc. with my requirements and query the price I am quoted, I am pretty certain their reply would be "It's not an offer it's the price". Despite the fact that, as I am sure you know Retail mark up prices are typically 30/50% above cost price and therefore the price quoted bears no relation to the cost to the supplier.
As I say it is out of curiosity as to how people determine determine what is a fair price I am asking becasue we do get many requests along the lines of "my airline tickets and park tickets cost me more than I expected so I can't afford to pay the price you have quoted, therby letting us know that they have afforded the prices quoted by the other companies but somehow feel that should mean they don't have to pay full price for their accommodation (well certainly their preferred accommodation). If we can learn from their expectations then it may be that they would prefer more basic accommodation without the frills and can then trim the costs accordingly. As you mention you are a seasoned traveller then it is the opinion of people like yourself that may have some influence.
5 day Disney tickets would cost the average family around the same as the cost of 2 weeks on average that most villas would cost. Bearing in mind that accommodation is then available to them 24/7 for 14 days but the park only during opening hours for 5 days it doesnt really correlate and similarly the flight price may be the same for one person as the accomodation for the party for the week.
Babblin Boo
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by makuk
And things aren't getting any better in the UK or USA so when I book my villa for March 2010 I will be laughing at the prices the villa owners come back with and I guarantee I will get at least 20-30% off the quoted prices.
Some of you villa owners may be thinking, noooo way, I won't be reducing my prices, but I think you should all think very carefuly when someone wants a 30% discount off your prices, some money is better than no money at all.[/quote]
Au Contraire Mark ...
This year I have booked more weeks at a higher rate than last year. Last year I booked more weeks at a higher rate than the year before. That's been the story for every year since I bought the villa. My rates go up because the cost of running the place goes up. If I want to cut rates, I also need to cut quality.
Next year is looking even better!
So your logic, which really feels like it is taken straight from the doom-and-gloom media if you don't mind me saying so, really doesn't seem to apply.
I am sure many other owners are the same!
As for your approach to renting villas ... perhaps this is why, to quote your very own words from the enquiry you sent this morning, ...
However for the last few years the villas have not had everything I need/wanted
Curious!! [msnwink][msnwink][msnwink]
Steve
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by steph_goodrum
If I were to go to Virgin, or Tesco etc. with my requirements and query the price I am quoted, I am pretty certain their reply would be "It's not an offer it's the price". Despite the fact that, as I am sure you know Retail mark up prices are typically 30/50% above cost price and therefore the price quoted bears no relation to the cost to the supplier.
[/quote]
And, as we all know, Virgin and Tesco never, ever reduce their prices or have special offers to reflect market conditions.[msnwink]
They do, but it is at their choice and discretion. They decide where they can reflect cost savings or have products with limited shelf life etc. and then make the offer, the difference I am trying to make is that I couldnt go to them and tell them how much I wish to pay and expect them to sell me their product for that price. They don't work on the same principal as many overseas street markets where haggling and bartering are the norm and neither should any business that wants to continue trading at a high standard without subsidising costs from their own external sources, which it is pretty obvious that if outgoings exceed income is going to be the case.
Babblin Boo
Interesting replies which I knew I would receive, it is also good to see that you are making more money this year than you did last year.
My requirements are what I have decided I want from a villa, not the fact that the villa promised me I would recieve this, but over the last few years this is what I have decided I want from a villa.
It is fact that there are more villas available in a certain week than there are people looking for villas in that week, if this was not the case then every villa in florida would be full for every week of the year.
It is most definately a renters market right now and I have set a budget for my villa rental and will not pay more and I know I will get what I want at the price I want to pay. And in fact this year I want 2 villas so that's a nice little booking for someone!!
It is now up to the villa owners to either take the price I want to pay, hold out for a better booking or MAYBE have an empty villa for the 2 weeks - Some money is clearly better than an empty villa!! And as I am looking for March it's not exactly a busy time of the year!
It is clear that villa owners CAN reduce prices, they just don't want to, the reason we know this is because you charge different prices for different months!
This year I stayed at Crescent Lakes, in the street I was staying at 3 villas owned by UK owners had foreclosed that year, perhaps they were standing their ground and only taking the price they had advertised and not reducing their prices to ensure they could pay their mortgage!! Maybe if they had they would still be there.
And with regards to Virgin, "I KNOW FOR A FACT" that within the next 3 months they will be reducing their air fares from London to Orlando, currently they are about £450 return, within 3 months these same flights will be reduced to about £250 return.
Out of interest Steve, how are your bookings for the rest of this year, are you fully booked for 2009?
In my opinion for what it is worth
March is actually a busy month as American guests have spring break during March usually
Some money is not better than no money at all to an intelligent villa owner as guests cause wear and tear and use utilities
Ruth
Mark - I think you have your facts and figures mixed up a little. I will give you the best answer I can. If you don't agree that's entirely your perogative. I also will make this the last post to avoid the thread degenerating as these threads often do ...
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by makuk
It is fact that there are more villas available in a certain week than there are people looking for villas in that week, if this was not the case then every villa in florida would be full for every week of the year.[/quote]
I don't think this is a fact. If you can point me to an official source of this statistic I'll happily agree with you. Until then - this is your opinion.
Personally I think it is wrong and despite everything you might read in the media I don't see any supply/demand imbalance. Over 70,000,000 (70 million) people a year visit Orlando. There are around 20,000 vacation homes. Personally I think that half of these homes are very tired and run-down (none that you would find on these sites I should add). There is plenty of supply in my eyes.
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by makuk
It is most definately a renters market right now ...[/quote]
That actually depends on what you are looking for. If you are looking for 'average' I dare say you are right. Perhaps this is why you have been disappointed in the last few years. Top end villas are booking out over 12 months in advance. That doesn't sound like a renters market to me!
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by makuk
Some money is clearly better than an empty villa!![/quote]
Sadly it isn't, and is why many owners are finding themselves foreclosed right now.
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by makuk
And as I am looking for March it's not exactly a busy time of the year![/quote]
Errrrr - who told you that? March is hugely busy! You are looking at this from your own point of view and then making sweeping assumptions that the rest of the world is the same. It isn't! March is very very busy indeed.
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by makuk
It is clear that villa owners CAN reduce prices, they just don't want to, the reason we know this is because you charge different prices for different months![/quote]
A villa owner can do anything they choose. Some choose to price the same all year round. Some choose to vary prices. Villa's cost a different amount to run at different times of the year. You'll find a different approach from each villa owner.
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by makuk
This year I stayed at Crescent Lakes, in the street I was staying at 3 villas owned by UK owners had foreclosed that year, perhaps they were standing their ground and only taking the price they had advertised and not reducing their prices to ensure they could pay their mortgage!! Maybe if they had they would still be there.[/quote]
Perhaps they subscribed to the 'any amount is better than an empty villa theory'. Sadly, and quite apt to the original question of this thread, any owner who charges less per week than the villa costs to run will eventually go bankrupt (based on the number of weeks that they expect to sell, or are capable of selling). They may choose to fund the shortfall
Steve
I too rent villas regularly (at least twice) ever year and agree with much of what has been said on both sides. At the end of the day you get what you pay for.
The bit which I find very hard to agree with is that a cheap rental means a risky rental, I just don't see how this can ever be a straight equation.
If we take the retailing analogy that has already been offered then this is like saying that Lidls is more likely to go bankrupt than Waitrose, clearly not the case. Each are totally different business models and both are set up to be profitable and yet their price points are completely different. Some people will choose to shop at Lilds and may (but not necessarily) get a lower quality product as a result, but I think that they can be confident that the store will still be there the next week.
IMHO the scaremongering that cheaper prices means more risky choices just can't be substantiated without knowing all the details of the business model a villa owner is running, actually I suspect it just serves to put people off risking a villa rental direct from the owner, preferring instead to have the guarantees that a hotel or a ABTA backed booking has to offer.
In my experience, every villa we have booked has been exactly what we expected, every owner I have dealt with has honest and solvent and every holiday has been fantastic, even though some have been cheaper than others.
As long as you are prepared to do a bit of homework, ask a few questions and prepare to trust someone I don't see why everyone can't be confident of the same experiences, regardless of budget.
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