Visa Waiver Program Any Changes ??

[Snapper]

You know, I still read it that both arrested and/or convicted would have to be for a crime involving moral turpitude. On other questions they use a semicolon where they want to put a harder break.

So if they wanted to include arrests (for any crime) plus convictions for crimes involving moral turpitude, wouldn't they have written:

Have you ever been arrested; or convicted for an offense or crime involving moral turpitude.

In fact, while typing that I now believe even more that the or links rather than excludes. Take the last bit of the phrase: for an offense or crime involving moral turpitude. If the or was excluding you could read this as:
Have you ever been arrested for an offense?

A moral turpitude offense is a subset of all the offenses so if the or's were excluding or's (or whatever the correct phrase is) there wouldn't be a need to mention moral turpitude at all.

Given that you likely aren't arrested for doing nothing they could reduce the question to a much more readable:
Have you ever been arrested?

So all that said, for what it's worth, IMHO, usual disclaimers apply, I read this that if one has been arrested and/or convicted for a crime that does not involve moral turpitude, you can tick No and travel under the VWP.

One does wonder if the ambiguity is there by accident, or intentionally?

[Robert5988]

Blott,
The question asks:

"Have you ever been arrested or convicted for an offense or crime involving moral turpitude"(all in the same sentence)

My English grammar may be a little rusty, but surely the subject of the sentence is 'an offence or crime involving moral turpitude' and thus 'arrested or convicted' refer to that subject.

Suppose a question read "have you ever ridden a motor-cycle or driven a car at over 70mph on a motorway". You are not seriously suggesting that you would answer 'Yes' if you had merely ridden a motor-cycle(at any speed below 70mph on a normal road)

[ccarcher]

Yep thats my interpretation of it to, the or links the two phrases of arrested and convicted to "the" crime of moral terpitude

As previously said the question overall refers to "the" crime of moral terpitude,(which mine certainly was not anyway) and therefore in my honest interpretation of the sentence, the "or" links the arrest to the crime of moral terpitude

if the or does not link the two, then simply arrested would suffice for any crime as being suggested by others to the arrest part of the sentence

as someone else suggested maybe the ambiguity is with intent

Thanks to all for their contributions, I believe that I am perfectly within my rights and can also honestly answer the question with a NO, as I have not been arrested or convicted of the crime of moral terpitude

When I am refused entry and deported on the 22nd July you will read it here first !![msnmad]

[ccarcher]

Also since the offence back in late 80's, I have travelled to the US in 93 and 95, on what I imagine was the same Visa Waiver program, then I would imagine that if there was a problem or an issue, then it would of been found before ??

[ccarcher]

Maybe I am trying to make myself feel better but this is worrying me sick[xx(]that it may spoil my kids first trip to the states, and really I should be enjoying the build up and planning[msncry]

However the more I read it (and it would appear there are a number of parts to the same question), the more I am sure it relates to

an arrest or conviction for a crime of moral terpitude,

A arrest , conviction or violation related to a controlled substance

an arrest or conviction for two or more offences with a prison sentence of 5 years or more

In which case I am happy to answer NO as none of the above apply to me

At the end of the day, without access to the internet, I would be none the wiser until the time I was completing the form on the plane,

[ccarcher]

Just an update

having mused over this for the weekend, I took some professional advice today, which whilst not cheap was certainly worth it in the peace of mind it gave me alone

Anyway following the advice, whilst his opinion was that I would probably be ok should I choose the waiver option, and be found out the worst I was likely to experience would be some uncomfortable questioning

Was also advised that there was no reason that a visa would be refused and therefore would make sense as I have the time to obtain one which I will now do

You'll be suprised how much they find acceptable apparently at US immigration, and they also like the upfront approach and effort of to reveal and resolve an issue rather than keeping it hidden and hoping it wont come to light

Although word of warning here, drug related is really not good, and can prove very difficult to overcome

So I have completed the subject access form, will wait 30 days or so for it to arrive and in the meantime schedule my interview to coincide with its return

and hopefully all being well, by the end of April I shall have had my interview and have received back my passport with visa

As I say may not be for everyone but at least I can then travel with peace of mind, rather than thinking the worst for the next 5 months

If anyone else is undecided then I would also perhaps advise to perhaps seek good quality professional advice

Happy to pass on the details of who I visited if anyone is interested but obviously I cant post it on this forum

[Robert5988]

Who gave the 'professional advice'? Not his name - what is his profession? and you paid for that advice!!!!

How do you know it is good quality advice? Did you get a second opinion? or a third opinion? or are you expert enough now to judge what is good quality advice?

Why can't you 'obviously' give details on this forum; like how much he charged?

What do you mean by 'found out'?

If you have read the regulations and are not sure if you qualify for a Waiver, then apply for a Visa. Why go to someone else(and pay) to be given exactly the same advice. Do you think he has access to some regulations that are not publically available?

Now you will probably need to get hold of your Memorandum of Conviction and from 20 years ago for something you "can hardly recall" that will be difficult. Take a day off travel to London/Belfast to get a Visa when you had clearly decided that you qualified for a waiver.

Of course a Visa will not be a problem to obtain, if your offence was something that wouldn't be a problem on a waiver, it is self-evident it wouldn't be a problem.

I must say I find it a little surprising that you join this forum a week ago seeking advice and now are advising people to pay for professional advice. That advice being go to the embassy and get a Visa; and what looks suspiciously like touting business for this unknown person.

Well anyone else reading this thread, and who is undecided what to do, here is some free advice - go to the Embassy and don't pay for someone to tell you to go to the Embassy.

Unbelievable!!

[roger]

Personally Robert, I think your reply is on the harsh side to say the least. I see nothing wrong in paying for professional advice over such matters especially when the Embassy are known to be sketchy with such information.

As long as the professional really knows their stuff of course, but we have no reason to believe they dont in this case.

If the professional is a Visa Attorney for example, then they will have more knowledge than can be found on the Embassy web site.

[ccarcher]

Sorry you feel like that Robert, I certainly have no link to the person or company, and have no intention of promoting their business in anyway

Yes I offered to pass this information on, if others felt they required it(I could of just posted it anyway),

But thats not how forums work, and it would only be contact details I would pass on, it would then be for the indivdual to decide if it was right for them or not as I did

The fact that I only joined this forum a week or so ago , has no bearing on this, the reason I came to this forum was to find out information on this very issue

And it was from the content of this such forum that I found I may have a problem travelling now under the visa waiver program something I had never realised before

so having listened to the OPINIONS (and thats what it comes down to) of others on this forum including yourself, I decided that for my own peace of mind I would seek further professional advice, with my situation

Yes I could have gone directly to the embassy, but I was unsure at that time whether this would in itself be a good or bad thing, and potentially open a can of worms

and that is why I made the choice I did, seeking professional advice from a qualified US Immigration and Visa Laywer with many years of experience dealing with these such issues on a daily basis

AS opposed to those who are just passing on their own opinions and views based on experiences that have happend to them or others they know of

it may not be for everyone to take this approach, and maybe in my case I am indeed taking a hammer to crack an egg

But you pay your money and take you choice, and for me just as I have already said, just in the relief and peace of mind it has given I am glad I did

[florida4sun]

Dont worry about robert, we are used to him getting his knickers in a twist Thansk for posting some helpful info.

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by ccarcher
Sorry you feel like that Robert, I certainly have no link to the person or company, and have no intention of promoting their business in anyway

Yes I offered to pass this information on, if others felt they required it(I could of just posted it anyway),

But thats not how forums work, and it would only be contact details I would pass on, it would then be for the indivdual to decide if it was right for them or not as I did

The fact that I only joined this forum a week or so ago , has no bearing on this, the reason I came to this forum was to find out information on this very issue

And it was from the content of this such forum that I found I may have a problem travelling now under the visa waiver program something I had never realised before

so having listened to the OPINIONS (and thats what it comes down to) of others on this forum including yourself, I decided that for my own peace of mind I would seek further professional advice, with my situation

Yes I could have gone directly to the embassy, but I was unsure at that time whether this would in itself be a good or bad thing, and potentially open a can of worms

and that is why I made the choice I did, seeking professional advice from a qualified US Immigration and Visa Laywer with many years of experience dealing with these such issues on a daily basis

AS opposed to those who are just passing on their own opinions and views based on experiences that have happend to them or others they know of

it may not be for everyone to take this approach, and maybe in my case I am indeed taking a hammer to crack an egg

But you pay your money and take you choice, and for me just as I have already said, just in the relief and peace of mind it has given I am glad I did


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