Virgin Atlantic is to defer its order for the new Airbus A380 by four years.
Not good news for airbus, or long haul passengers hoping this aircraft would bring fares down
Virgin Atlantic is to defer its order for the new Airbus A380 by four years.
Not good news for airbus, or long haul passengers hoping this aircraft would bring fares down
I don't think there was any realistic hope of the A380 bringing down fares - even if it was to be ready on-time.
Unless the British and French Governments come up with some subsidy(under whatever guise they want to call it) I can see the project folding. Lots of airlines are re-considering their options and you can bet Boeing will be selling hard.
Lets hope it doesn't become another Concorde - great plane but a financial disaster.
I hope not it's my job otherwise. also there are more countries involved other than UK and France, such as America, Spain, Germany plus many more.
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Robert5988
I don't think there was any realistic hope of the A380 bringing down fares - even if it was to be ready on-time.
Unless the British and French Governments come up with some subsidy(under whatever guise they want to call it) I can see the project folding. Lots of airlines are re-considering their options and you can bet Boeing will be selling hard.
Lets hope it doesn't become another Concorde - great plane but a financial disaster.
[/quote]
Careful what you say Robert about my 'baby'............
How much profit did Concorde make for British Airways?
On average Concorde made and operating profit of £30-50 Million a year for British Airways in the boom years where many passengers were travelling first class. British Airways reportedly received £1.75 Billion in revenue for Concorde services against an operating cost of around £1 Billion. Air France made a much smaller profit.[msnwink][msnwink][msnwink]
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Careful what you say Robert about my 'baby'............
How much profit did Concorde make for British Airways?
On average Concorde made and operating profit of £30-50 Million a year for British Airways in the boom years where many passengers were travelling first class. British Airways reportedly received £1.75 Billion in revenue for Concorde services against an operating cost of around £1 Billion. Air France made a much smaller profit.[/quote]
Julie,
Like all mothers with their babies - they can can do no wrong[msnwink]
You might have flown a lot of miles in Concorde, but the economics of the plane is obviously not your strong point.
Let me say this slowly so there is no mistake:
Concorde was, and remains to this day, the biggest finacial disaster in commercial aviation history.
Just a couple of financial facts:
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:The development costs of Concorde were around £1.134 billion, which was funded by the UK and French governments. The cost to build the 16 production Concordes was £654 million of which £278 million was recovered through sales returns (this included spares, technical support, etc.). This debt was also funded by the 2 governments. [/quote]
So the nett cost to the taxpayer(development and production costs less sales) was £1,510 million(£1.51 billion)Bear in mind that this money was spent during the 1960's and 1970's so would be approx £15 billion at today's values.
So every one of the 14 Concordes that entered service had an effective subsidy of over £100 million, which is over £1 Billion eachat todays values.
It was also the noisiest, most polluting and expensive to operate(in terms of cost per passenger mile) ever built; and all this taxpayer's money was spent so the rich could cross the atlantic in half the time of conventional jets. Looked great though!
Compare Concorde with the Boeing 747 which was developed about the same time. Over 1,400 have been built, Boeing have covered all their development costs and made a huge profit from sales.
To get back to the A380 - let us hope the same mistake has not been made.
I have to agree it was and still is the most beautiful passenger plane ever to have graced the skies. Its also a bit harsh to compare it to the 747 as well, they are for different markets. You have to remember that originally the US would not let it land in most of the US (sour grapes on their part really as they didn't build it) and it never really recovered from that.
Yes, it was a burden on the tax payer basically because no govt can organise a p*** up in a brewery. Another great example of a White Elephant is the channel tunnel and for those that are as old as me another one is the TSR2 which cost a fortune and never went into service.
Eurofighter - It has cost £50 billion, has been 30 years in the making and is designed to fight an enemy that no longer exists. So is the Eurofighter a military white elephant? (Excert from the Guardian Newspaper).
The UK are masters of the 'White Elephant'.
Paul,
I largely agree with what you say - particularly about masters of the White Elephant and the beauty of Concorde. The comparison with the 747 was to point out that a commercial aircraft could, should, be sold at a price that covered its development costs and make a profit for the manufacturer.
However I don't think you are correct about the USA not letting it land in in most of the USA(although there was a problem initially with New York) being the main problem. The maximum range of Concorde, with a full payload only put the East coast of USA in range.
The biggest problem for Concorde was that no country, including UK and France, would let it fly supersonic over land because of the damage caused by the sonic boom. So it's sole market was, for practical terms, transatlantic flights between Europe and East coast USA/Caribbean. No point in it landing East Coast and then another leg to West coast at sub-sonic speed.
Anyway I don't think Concorde would be popular with most members of this Forum as it didnt have their No 1 requirement - seatback TV, in fact it had no in-flight entertainment at all. You just spent your time looking at the Flight Attendants(I think still called Air Stewardesses in those days?) - who were as elegant as the aircraft itself.(If that doesn't get me in Julie's good books - nothing will!)
[msnwink][msncool]
I'm not goung to argue with all you financial gurus but for me there was no finer sight than the "conc" coming into land-not frequently enough at Manchester for me!--Now don't get me going about Lancaster bombers.......
Lancaster - another beauty.
Saw Memorial Flight a month ago, up close, awesome!!!
The sound of those Rolls Royce Merlins brought a lump to your throat.
The Spitfire came in first, a few slow rolls, then the Hurricane (not as pretty as the Spit) but wonderful sight just the same. Then the Lancaster, did'nt seem to do as much as last year, but I suppose she's getting on a bit now. The fly past of all three against a clear blue sky was a glorious sight.
What a treat it would be to fly in the Lancaster or the Spitfire [msnsmile2]
mike
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