Driving Conviction

[Robert5988]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:However, thanks everyone for the comments. I've spoken to the embassy and they were adamant - got to get a Visa. "Yes, but she wasn't arrested" I said, "It says arrested OR convicted" I was told, "and as she's got a conviction, you need a Visa".
[/quote]

Tonish,
Your profile shows you to be from the USA?

Many people have clarified with the Embassy in London that a minor motoring conviction does not prevent you using the Visa Waiver scheme. The regulations are absolutely clear on this matter.

I can only assume that the clerk you spoke to has misunderstood you. Either that or he/she is plain mistaken.

Rather than go to the expense and trouble of getting a Visa and more importantly disseminating incorrect information on this forum(however well intentioned), why don’t you write to the Embassy and get it in writing.

At the risk of repeating myself you are Convicted regardless of attending court or not.

So if being convicted disqualifies you from the Visa Waiver Scheme, what category of minor traffic offence allows you to use the Visa Waiver Scheme?

Robert

[Tonish]

Thanks Robert

My profile was wrong, I'm from the UK. I've changed it now. I hope you're right and I will investigate further and come back on it. I agree, don't want to post misleading information, but I must say, the embassy expressed no surprise when I talked about a speeding conviction, they seemed to have had the same conversation many times.

Tonish

[Robert5988]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Therefore, can it be that we, having paid the fixed penalty, were not considered as having been convicted but would have been had we gone to court?
What do you think?[/quote]

Nostromo,

If you look at the small print in your car insurance policy and proposal forms it refers to convictions and asks if you have been convicted of any driving offence.

Similarly if you look at the DVLC site and your driving licence it refers to ‘date of conviction’ The booklet on the various offence codes, SP30 etc, refers to convictions.

Nowhere does it indicate that you are only convicted if you attend a court.

You can challenge a parking ticket and go to court – many do in London. If their challenge is unsuccessful they are convicted in Court of a parking offence.

Lastly fixed penalty tickets and speed cameras are a modern(well relatively!!) innovation. Before then all motoring offences were dealt with by court. My elder brother was fined 5 shillings and convicted in a court of the heinous crime of riding his bicycle without a rear lamp. (I would add the local copper had warned him several times!)

So is my brother banned from using the Visa Waiver scheme because he was convicted in a court? Of course not.

[brazie]

quote:
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I phoned up the US embassy and they advised us as it went to Court he has a criminal conviction. Best to call the Embassy 09055-444-546 (£1.30 per minute).
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Robert,

US Embassy website - "Travelers with minor traffic offenses which did not result in an arrest and/or conviction for the offense may travel visa free, provided they are otherwise qualified".

If it goes to court it is a Conviction based on the information from the US Embassy. We are not going to challenge the Embassy rules because we want to get into their Country.

Surely my comments of "best to call the Embassy" would allow Tonish to make his own decision of what he wants to do and possible call them for piece of mind.

The US Embassy website also states "Some travelers may not be eligible to enter the United States visa free under the VWP. These include people who have been arrested, even if the arrest did not result in a criminal conviction, those with criminal records, (the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act does not apply to U.S. visa law), certain serious communicable illnesses, those who have been refused admission into, or have been deported from, the United States, or have previously overstayed on the visa waiver program. Such travelers must apply for special restricted visas. If they attempt to travel without a visa, they may be refused entry into the United States."

Only by calling the US Embassy would you be able to give you clarification. I did e-mail the Embassy before calling them and they advised that he could go on the VWP if the offence was for speeding but only if he was not arrested/or convicted. The US Embassy was quite adamant that as it went to Court and given a sentence (4 points and fine) that he has a conviction. He also has a Memorandum of Conviction which you can only get if it went to Court and the was a penalty/sentence given to you.

I don't feel that I gave Tonish the wrong advice as the information he gave us to start with was similar to the experience we had with a motoring conviction.

[steph_goodrum]

Perhaps this misconceptions come about because the US and UK legal systems may differ in what offences would be taken to court in the US. I don't know how their system works but maybe if you are only arrested or convicted if the "misdemeanour" is more severe than in the UK, so they make the assumption if you have been to court then they want to find out why.
The minor traffic offenses could relate to parking tickets rather than actual driving misdemeneanours.

[Nostromo]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by steph_goodrum
Perhaps this misconceptions come about because the US and UK legal systems may differ in what offences would be taken to court in the US. I don't know how their system works but maybe if you are only arrested or convicted if the "misdemeanour" is more severe than in the UK, so they make the assumption if you have been to court then they want to find out why.
The minor traffic offenses could relate to parking tickets rather than actual driving misdemeneanours.
[/quote]

But I had 3+3 penalty points on my licence for speeding when I went to Orlando last spring. By your definition, that would count as a "Driving Misdemeanour" and even though both were settled by the Fixed Penalty system without involvement of a court, Robert advises that it could still count as a 'conviction'. Mindful of potential problems, I checked with the US Embassy beforehand and they clearly told me that I was eligible for VWS and did not have to worry. Needless to say, everything went fine.

Please note that I am merely quoting my own experience and there is no intention to ruffle any feathers on this rather heated subject.

[Robert5988]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:US Embassy website - "Travelers with minor traffic offenses which did not result in an arrest and/or conviction for the offense may travel visa free, provided they are otherwise qualified".

If it goes to court it is a Conviction based on the information from the US Embassy. We are not going to challenge the Embassy rules because we want to get into their Country.

Surely my comments of "best to call the Embassy" would allow Tonish to make his own decision of what he wants to do and possible call them for piece of mind.

The US Embassy website also states "Some travelers may not be eligible to enter the United States visa free under the VWP. These include people who have been arrested, even if the arrest did not result in a criminal conviction, those with criminal records, (the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act does not apply to U.S. visa law), certain serious communicable illnesses, those who have been refused admission into, or have been deported from, the United States, or have previously overstayed on the visa waiver program. Such travelers must apply for special restricted visas. If they attempt to travel without a visa, they may be refused entry into the United States."

Only by calling the US Embassy would you be able to give you clarification. I did e-mail the Embassy before calling them and they advised that he could go on the VWP if the offence was for speeding but only if he was not arrested/or convicted. The US Embassy was quite adamant that as it went to Court and given a sentence (4 points and fine) that he has a conviction. He also has a Memorandum of Conviction which you can only get if it went to Court and the was a penalty/sentence given to you.

I don't feel that I gave Tonish the wrong advice as the information he gave us to start with was similar to the experience we had with a motoring conviction.
[/quote]
Gail,
The only reason I am pursuing this matter is that people reading your post will go to a lot of unnecessary trouble and expense obtaining a Visa when it is not necessary.

Firstly the quotes from the US Embassy site in both our posts are absolutely clear and I suggest there is absolutely nothing in them that supports your contention that Tonish and your spouses require a Visa.

As stated in my last post I have a conviction for speeding, Nostromo has a conviction for speeding, millions of UK citizens have convictions for minor traffic offences which include speeding. It does not matter if you went to court or not you are convicted! The regulations specifically exempt these offences.

There is a record of all these convictions and(if not time expired) they will be taken into account if we are prosecuted for a further offence.

Now this is the important part!

You ,without any regulation to support your assumption, appear to claim that going to court somehow makes the offence more serious and only then does that count as a conviction.

Where in the regulations is that written down?

Where in the regulations does it say that going to court makes a difference?

If you produce any written statement that supports your contention that appearing in court and being convicted for a minor traffic offence(provided you were not arrested) necessitates getting a Visa, I will eat my hat.

As I said in my earlier post it wasn’t that long ago that UK citizens had no option but to go to court.(and in cases like Tonish they still attend court) My brother riding a bike with no rear light was convicted in court. Are you seriously suggesting that he needs a Visa?

If you do not believe the US embassy’s very clear regulations, I suggest that there is absolutely no point in telephoning the US embassy on this matter – instead you should get them to put in writing that their regulations are wrong. As Babblin Boo states it is quite possible that the person you spoke to on the phone at

[Tonish]

Perhaps it would be best if I updated you on events of the last couple of days. I called the embassy helpline number and spoke to a representative there. He was of the opinion that as there was a conviction and a fine she would need to go for an interview. He said it was likely that given the nature of the offense, they most likely would allow her to use the Visa waiver rather than have to get one, but the only person who could make that decision would be the staff at the embassy and she would definitely need an interview.

The decisive factors appeared to be:
1. There was a court case with a conviction.
2. The fine (£100) was more than the normal £60.

What he did say was that in the usual circumstances where there had been a fixed penalty ticket paid and the standard number of points issued, the Visa waiver form was fine, but as ours appeared to be a little different we would at least have to have an interview.

The good news is that there doesn't appear to be a long wait for interviews - we phoned on the 18th and were offered an appointment for 27th. This didn't suit so she's got one on the 1st Feb.

I'll let you know the outcome. Many thanks to everyone for the advice and concern.

Tonish

[ste1010]

I am following this thread with interest. I recieved a fixed penaly notice for a minor motoring offence. The offence was a joke. I passed a parked car on a road with a single solid white line. I mentioned this to a solicitor friend who was already representing 2 people for the same offence on the same day. Anyway to cut a short story shorter he took it to court and we were convicted with 3pts and £40 fine.
I have been to the US under the VWS a couple of times since not even thinking this could be a problem. After reading this thread it has got me worried so I have just rang my solicitor. He said even though it went to court it would have no additional paperwork raised than if we had accepted it and paid up. No memorandum of conviction and no criminal record incurred.

I will watch this thread to see what happens to other people as I dont want to jeopardise my hols in the summer, but dont want to spend £100 quid or so getting the train to London for an interview if I dont have to.

[E. Cosgrove]

There have been loads of threads re ciminal conviction, and if I've followed them correctly you have certainly nothing to worry about as you were never arrested. Iam sure someone will correct me if I am wrong!!