Security

[hamish]

Have just received a reply back from my M.P. on a related question ,I asked 6xweeks ago.
Under the rehabilitation of offenders act, "spent convictions" were not generally being made available and only by a specific request, where the other country believed that the person could pose a problem, then that request would be granted.
So you see, not as black and white as we thought.
Oh and before anyone asks, this was done as part of a research project into the freedom of information act, specifically, whether someone can aquire your financial details for unrelated or "spurios" reasons.
I really could go on forever on this subject but i must get on and finish my thesis before the big bad wolf comes.[msnwink]!!<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by amy
The best think to do if you want to lie and say nothing would be to file your fingers down to the bone so you would have no finger print left.

However I would not advice that as it would hurt.

Change your name, move house, wear a wig, what ever you choose to do you prints remain unique for life.

They are taken electronically on arrival at imigration and checked on the database which is stored in the US, the same one that the UK law enforcement agencies, including the Police store theirs.

Surly applying for a visa is far simpler than been suspended from entering the country for 10 years.
[/quote]

[anna maria freak]

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Originally posted by amy

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Originally posted by tezz7628

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posted by amy



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The UK police also now have the power to take finger prints from anyone who is arrested for a recordable offence, not just as is used to be charged or summons.
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any one voluntarily giving a statement who hasn't been arrested also

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Are you sure Tezz ? as this infomation has not been passed onto the people who would have the job of taking them.

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crime committed,not been arrested,voluntarily give statement
under these circumstances yes

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tezz


sorry, thats wrong, you are required to supply fingerprints when arrested at any time for a recordable offense, ie theft assault etc plus all the more serious things, if merely suspected of a crime, not charged, you may ellect to give a statement under caution for inclusion in a prosecution should it get that far as the laws of evidence, identification are very rigid. if you are unlucky enough to then appear and are convicted it then falls on the police to petittion the judge to direct that fingerprints be taken. If on the other hand they were taken and you were found to be innocent then fingerprints must be destroyed or returned to you.

Hope this helps

[amy]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by anna maria freak
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Originally posted by amy

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Originally posted by tezz7628

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posted by amy



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The UK police also now have the power to take finger prints from anyone who is arrested for a recordable offence, not just as is used to be charged or summons.
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any one voluntarily giving a statement who hasn't been arrested also

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Are you sure Tezz ? as this infomation has not been passed onto the people who would have the job of taking them.

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crime committed,not been arrested,voluntarily give statement
under these circumstances yes

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tezz
That was the case, prior to new powers intoduced early last month, if you are unfortunate to be arrested for a recordable offence now, the first step taken following the authorisation of detention is the collection of fingerprints,photograph and DNA sample.

sorry, thats wrong, you are required to supply fingerprints when arrested at any time for a recordable offense, ie theft assault etc plus all the more serious things, if merely suspected of a crime, not charged, you may ellect to give a statement under caution for inclusion in a prosecution should it get that far as the laws of evidence, identification are very rigid. if you are unlucky enough to then appear and are convicted it then falls on the police to petittion the judge to direct that fingerprints be taken. If on the other hand they were taken and you were found to be innocent then fingerprints must be destroyed or returned to you.

Hope this helps
[/quote]

[Colin]

Amy,

I think you have missed the point of the thread.

I was trying to determine the validity of stories relating to refusal of entry to the US, due to very old, perhaps minor, juvenile say reasons of arrest that may be say 20+ years old. We've ended up discussing current changes to legislation!

I don't think that the entire fingerprint records and case history of 20+ years ago have been digitised to a form of instant retrieval by US immigration yet?

It strikes me that old offences are not the reasons for recent refusals of entry as some stories claim, as the information is not really available in a quick and easy form.

We (the Forum) seem to be certain that a criminal record cannot be attached to a (non-biometric) passport. But a recent criminal record may be attached to your fingerprint. Anything else sounds like supposition, consequence (age, gender, name and address say) and guesswork.

I accept that eventually, we will end up having complete openness of our whole criminl pasts available to all who are able to view them in the future via the connection between criminal systems and the biometric passport - but for now - it doesn't seem to be available unless you are a recent 'baddy'.

Perhaps US immigration are doing their best with the little information available, with a mandate that is probably not truly workable or common sense, but something that they have to live with?

My worry is that I get stopped for something that I truly didn't do, but the sketchy info' available is not definitive enough to rule me out. I don't think US immigration will apologise nor care if I am truly innocent - I just lose my very expensive holiday! [msnmad]

It would be interesting to hear of anyone else with stories of refused entry?

Colin

[hamish]

You are quite right to assume that the majority of info prior to computerisation is not available for scrutiny and as i explained in my previous posting, any "spent" convictions will only be divulged by a special request of a "appropriate authority" in order to usurp the premise of the rehabilitation of offenders act and not the premise, that
"once scarred always tarred"

[sharondl]

A customer of mine traveled to detroit to visit a very old friend (who moved there years ago before immigration got so complicated) she only usualy see her when she visits uk once a year. Her friend now has cancer and can't travel so customers her family all contributed and paid for flight to visit her friend and when she arrived at airport she was told would not be allowed admittance and was told they did not have to disclose why, was not allowed to phone her friend to let know what was happening and was put in holding cell till next flight home available.

she is a fifty year old women who has no convictions she has never been arrested but did have a younger brother briefly living with her 10 years ago who had a drug problem could this be linked to her.

any suggestions she is devasted, to travel from newcastle to paris and then to detroit is bad enough but to be put through such humiliation and to not know why is soul destroying. plus on return got off plane in paris for connection to newcastle to find armed gaurd with guns waiting for her and she can not speak french so had to wait for interpreptor who was from british airways and ran her thru computer and had no idea why not accepted. Se was under escort till got on plane. everyone on plane looked at her like criminal.

she has contacted the british embasy who have informed her that they see no reason for rejection and that she has to book appointment with us embassy in London to find out why, as they will not disclose information by post

anyone any ideas cost about £700 for flights for nothing her friend is realy unwell and may not survive the immigration process just wants to say godbye how cruel is the US system

on another note we have visited the us about six times in last 10 years last time may 2005 husband has had priors for drunken disorderly over 20 years ago and never had to declare convictions before will we now need to apply for visa

[tibbytooth]

Back in my dim n distant when i was 16 (1976) i was convicted of a minor offence, a conviction nevertheless. In 03 my family and i went to Orlando and had the most fantastic time, we are to return in July to a villa found through this site. The last time i travelled i used the VW and, i guess, 'lied' with no hassle at immigration as nothing was picked up by their systems.
Just how much have their systems developed, to the point of; if they didn't spot it then, how can they now?
I'm travelling via a charter firm, carrier not yet confirmed.
I kinda expect the response this will attract and in that light a catch 22 arises. If i have to go to Belfast to plead for a visa ( what's the abc's of that anyway?) how do i square the fact that, yes i have a conviction, with, have you been before? ; and how did you get in that time?
Will not the fact that i had not declared before disbar me from appying for a visa this time?

[LiesaAnna]

guess you need to get christmas out the way and start the process! good luck!!!
just wish our country was as fussy as to who it lets in!!!