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<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Sally D
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Mach 2
I am sorry you can call them what you like but pictures speak volumes[msnwink]
The times you see a villa discribed as any of the above and when you look the photos they are nothing like luxurious or any of the other words chosen to discribe the home[msnscared]
Im sorry but floral sofas and basic furniture, and villa back to back with another villa is not my idea of luxury[msnwink]
[/quote]
Julie, these are the things we look for, firstly a nice outlook from the pool, lake or conservation, then we look at furniture, we do not like floral or basic.
It always takes me so long going through them all, but worth it in the end[msnsmile2]
[/quote]
I know Sally, I am constantly looking[msnwink]
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It is very difficult to describe your own villa, as we villa owners all think our own villa is the best[msnwink]
But after all the words are just the icing on the top, because for me personally I like the pictures, they tell what 2,000 words can never do!
Shirley
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<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Mach 2
I am sorry you can call them what you like but pictures speak volumes[msnwink]
The times you see a villa discribed as any of the above and when you look the photos they are nothing like luxurious or any of the other words chosen to discribe the home[msnscared]
Im sorry but floral sofas and basic furniture, and villa back to back with another villa is not my idea of luxury[msnwink]
[/quote]
Ok Mach has basically hit on the head what I was originally trying to say. Like hotels there are levels of accommodation. 2 star, 3 star etc. And virtually every advert is saying prestigious, luxury etc and in fact - all the villas on this site are lovely homes, I think you all have something to be proud of, but the reality is that a lot of them aren't luxury or prestigious, they are basic accommodation. I think a star rating would help with this. Because the prices are so close in a lot of instances, it's very hard for a novice to tell whether they are actually getting luxury, upscale accommodation or your usual villa. And I think to this end it's very important to actually clarify this because if it was a honeymoon or something and I had booked 'luxurious', 'prestigious' accommodation to find my house overlooked a dozen others immediately at the back, and it was really basic furniture package furniture, then I would not be at all happy. The pictures do obviously speak volumes but it's not until you actually get into the property do you often see carpet stains, rips in furniture or how MFI looking the furniture is...not saying that's the case with these villas, but you get my point.
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<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Arby
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Mach 2
I am sorry you can call them what you like but pictures speak volumes[msnwink]
The times you see a villa discribed as any of the above and when you look the photos they are nothing like luxurious or any of the other words chosen to discribe the home[msnscared]
Im sorry but floral sofas and basic furniture, and villa back to back with another villa is not my idea of luxury[msnwink]
[/quote]
Ok Mach has basically hit on the head what I was originally trying to say. Like hotels there are levels of accommodation. 2 star, 3 star etc. And virtually every advert is saying prestigious, luxury etc and in fact - all the villas on this site are lovely homes, I think you all have something to be proud of, but the reality is that a lot of them aren't luxury or prestigious, they are basic accommodation. I think a star rating would help with this. Because the prices are so close in a lot of instances, it's very hard for a novice to tell whether they are actually getting luxury, upscale accommodation or your usual villa. And I think to this end it's very important to actually clarify this because if it was a honeymoon or something and I had booked 'luxurious', 'prestigious' accommodation to find my house overlooked a dozen others immediately at the back, and it was really basic furniture package furniture, then I would not be at all happy. The pictures do obviously speak volumes but it's not until you actually get into the property do you often see carpet stains, rips in furniture or how MFI looking the furniture is...not saying that's the case with these villas, but you get my point.
[/quote]
I don't think John would want a star rating here......you would have to find an outside company to do that............like the AAA..or something........
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<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Arby
Ok Mach has basically hit on the head what I was originally trying to say. Like hotels there are levels of accommodation. 2 star, 3 star etc. And virtually every advert is saying prestigious, luxury etc and in fact - all the villas on this site are lovely homes, I think you all have something to be proud of, but the reality is that a lot of them aren't luxury or prestigious, they are basic accommodation. I think a star rating would help with this. Because the prices are so close in a lot of instances, it's very hard for a novice to tell whether they are actually getting luxury, upscale accommodation or your usual villa. And I think to this end it's very important to actually clarify this because if it was a honeymoon or something and I had booked 'luxurious', 'prestigious' accommodation to find my house overlooked a dozen others immediately at the back, and it was really basic furniture package furniture, then I would not be at all happy. The pictures do obviously speak volumes but it's not until you actually get into the property do you often see carpet stains, rips in furniture or how MFI looking the furniture is...not saying that's the case with these villas, but you get my point.
[/quote]
Even a star rating might not help that much Arby. It would be way easy for villa owners to manipulate their star rating by simply making sure their home had the requisite bits and pieces and ticked all the right boxes.
The beauty of this site is that it hooks you up directly with the villa owner so, in theory at least, it's as good as it gets for allowing you to make you own informed decision as to whether a villa is prestigious, luxurious or otherwise. Ask the owner to send more photos including close-ups of the furnishings, or different angles of the pool deck, or the house in situ to see how close the other villas are, or the view from the pool to see if it is overlooked. Ask if the furnishings shown in the photos are still in the house, or whether it's gone floral. Ask if there are any visible marks, tears or stains on the carpets. Ask when the carpets were last steam cleaned, or even how much they cost to fit in the first place. Ask what temperature the pool heater is set to, how many channels the TV has or whether the kitchen has a coffee grinder and waffle maker. Ask the owner to justify why they believe that their villa is prestigious or luxurious.
Everyone booking through this site has the most amazing opportunity to know exactly what the villa is like before they even book it, let alone before the arrive and set foot through the door. There should be absolutely no surprises whatsoever; other than a very pleasant one when the reality exceeds even the highest expectations.
This next statement might sound a little harsh, but if anyone books a villa direct with the owner and is then unpleasantly surprised when they set foot in it; well, they've only really theirselves to blame.
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<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by LiesaAnna
if you write "orlando villas" is good enough for me!![laugh]
[/quote]
You are right there Leisa. The capital letters, however, are very important - Orlando Villas means so much more than orlando villas.
Or if you want to vary the words you could say Online Florida Villas or Villas Florida convey just the same message of quality properties with reliable, honest , trustworthy owners[msnwink].
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Well said, Steve!
But just to add another thought, to keep any villa up to a superior, luxury, prestigious or whatever standard is not cheap. So if you book a 'prestigious' villa at £350 a week, peak time, then ask yourself why it is so cheap.
And another important question to ask is also how often an owner visits their home. If they haven't visited for a long time, then how do they really know what their home is like? [msnwink]
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<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by ellie
Well said, Steve!
But just to add another thought, to keep any villa up to a superior, luxury, prestigious or whatever standard is not cheap. So if you book a 'prestigious' villa at £350 a week, peak time, then ask yourself why it is so cheap.
And another important question to ask is also how often an owner visits their home. If they haven't visited for a long time, then how do they really know what their home is like? [msnwink]
[/quote]
Ellie you are spot on yet again,you are so wise for someone so young [msnwink]
I think a homeowner should visit their property atleast 2/3 times a year. I not saying the MC doeen't overall do a greatjob.
But it's all the little thing that don't get done.
You have gueats in your home constantly back to backs, not a great
lengh of time to catch up on all the little extra tasks.
We always seem to spend the first few days when we go,painting, weeding.making lists what we need to replace, thats before we tackle any major jobs
All good fun [msnsmile2][msnsmile2]
and making lists
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<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by luckylady[br
Ellie you are spot on yet again,you are so wise for someone so young [msnwink]
I think a homeowner should visit their property atleast 2/3 times a year. I not saying the MC doeen't overall do a greatjob.
But it's all the little thing that don't get done.
You have gueats in your home constantly back to backs, not a great
lengh of time to catch up on all the little extra tasks.
We always seem to spend the first few days when we go,painting, weeding.making lists what we need to replace, thats before we tackle any major jobs
All good fun [msnsmile2][msnsmile2]
and making lists
[/quote]
I was a child prodigy, Barbara.:D
But of course you are so right about the need to check a villa personally. I would not be happy unless I visited several times a year to make sure everything is up to standard, and to do the continuous round of extra jobs that are so vital in ensuring that our guests enjoy the sort of holiday experience we would like for ourselves.
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<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by luckylady
Next
My website reads
A fantastic air conditioned games room
Alternative
A fabulous air conditioned games room
A sensational air conditioned games room
A tremendous.air conditioned games room
A groovy air conditioned games room
A divine air conditioned games room
[msnwink][msnwink][msnwink]
[/quote]
I like the groovy one.:D
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<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Ray&Sarah
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by luckylady
Next
My website reads
A fantastic air conditioned games room
Alternative
A fabulous air conditioned games room
A sensational air conditioned games room
A tremendous.air conditioned games room
A groovy air conditioned games room
A divine air conditioned games room
[msnwink][msnwink][msnwink]
[/quote]
I like the groovy one.:D
[/quote]
I just knew you would Sarah, because you are a groovy funky kinda chick:D:D
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What about 'supper fan dabby dozzy games room':D
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<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by domster
What about 'supper fan dabby dozzy games room':D
[/quote]
Yes that might work too Dom, as long as the guests weren't cranky.:D:D:D
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I like it Sarah........more than I like the Krankies!
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Let's not forget, for an unseasoned Florida visitor just a home with a private pool may be luxury, everyone has different expectations, it's all relative[msnsmile]
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<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by dawn
Let's not forget, for an unseasoned Florida visitor just a home with a private pool may be luxury, everyone has different expectations, it's all relative[msnsmile]
[/quote]
Dawn, even for seasoned Florida visitors, to have a beautiful spacious home with own pool is a luxury whatever else it has! ;)
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I agree Ellie, compared to villas in most other parts of the world, villas in Florida are luxurious and at a very reasonable price.
Where else would you get a luxury villa for not much more than the cost of a caravan in England. If that is not good value, I don't know what else is!
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Steve and Ellie, you are both so right[msnsmile2] and Barbara, I knew somehow I could justify 2 trips in 6 weeks:D
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<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by ellie
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by dawn
Let's not forget, for an unseasoned Florida visitor just a home with a private pool may be luxury, everyone has different expectations, it's all relative[msnsmile]
[/quote]
Dawn, even for seasoned Florida visitors, to have a beautiful spacious home with own pool is a luxury whatever else it has! ;)
[/quote]
Couldn't agree more:D
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<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by dawn
Let's not forget, for an unseasoned Florida visitor just a home with a private pool may be luxury, everyone has different expectations, it's all relative[msnsmile]
[/quote]
Guys it's NOT all relative. If a hotel was advertising itself as five star luxury accommodation and charging top dollar and it wasn't, it would be liable to prosecution. I am fully understanding that everyone loves their homes, that's great and that's why you bought it. But the fact of the matter is you have turned your home into a business, and to describe it as luxury accommodation when clearly at times it's a basic villa with basic furniture package, no upgrades etc, then IMHO that's a clear violation of the Trades Description Act 1968 which applies also to accommodation, not just goods.
While there is pride of ownership all things are relative, such as the buyer of a Ford Escort vs a buyer of a Mercedes Benz. They both feel that their's is a great car. While an intelligent person clearly knows the difference.
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Surely it is relative though. If you take even the most basic villa and compare it against a bargain basement motel the villa is quite clearly luxury accomodation.
Luxury is your problem word, in that it is subjective, rather than an objective measure.
If a home was advertised as having a 60" widescreen TV when it only had a 32" widescreen TV then this would cleary be a breach of the TDA. If it was advertised as having a huge widescreen TV then the 32" set would be fine. Who's to define how big a TV has to be before it's huge?
Anything subjective is, by definition, just that. Subjective.
Even the Mercedes might be considered far from luxury motoring by someone who has just bought a Maybach.
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Well said Steve. I totally agree.
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<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Snapper
Surely it is relative though. If you take even the most basic villa and compare it against a bargain basement motel the villa is quite clearly luxury accomodation.
Luxury is your problem word, in that it is subjective, rather than an objective measure.
If a home was advertised as having a 60" widescreen TV when it only had a 32" widescreen TV then this would cleary be a breach of the TDA. If it was advertised as having a huge widescreen TV then the 32" set would be fine. Who's to define how big a TV has to be before it's huge?
Anything subjective is, by definition, just that. Subjective.
Even the Mercedes might be considered far from luxury motoring by someone who has just bought a Maybach.
[/quote]
Steve you amaze me, your postings are spot on
You would make a great lawyer[msnwink][msnwink]
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Sorry Steve I totally disagree, you cannot compare villa accommodation to hotel accommodation. The fact of the matter is you are saying that the most basic villa is more luxurious than the most basic hotel. Not true, it's the same standard it's just bigger. If you think basic beds, quilts, seats and tables are better standard than a cheap hotel/motel you are quite mistaken. It's the same calibre, except like I said, one is bigger in the form of a home and the other is smaller and hence that's the only reason there is a difference in price.
Hotels have star rating and if it's 2 star with 2 star furnishings, it's listed as such and priced accordingly. Some of these villas are not. They are 2 star accommodation in 2 star communities, wanting 4 star rental fees and giving 4-5 star impressions in their description.
If you are really wanting to hear what potential renters or the general public are thinking then take what I have said on board. I am sure I am not alone in this viewpoint. I wish the villa owners would just face reality and realise that I'm not downgrading anyone's home but I'm just merely pointing out that a lot of these homes are no more prestigious or luxurious than the average home in Florida, they are just merely the ones available to rent for holidays to the general public. When others are pointing out what could be put right in these ads, this is meant to be a constructive feedback and help not to be taken as personal criticism.
There are many as equally nice homes available for X amount per week or even less. It depends when you bought your villa and how. If you have a high mortgage and bought at the end of a development or you have a low mortgage and bought at the beginning this will all affect how much rent you can afford to take. Now THAT is all relative. The description of standard accommodation as 'luxury' is not.
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<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Snapper
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Arby
Ok Mach has basically hit on the head what I was originally trying to say. Like hotels there are levels of accommodation. 2 star, 3 star etc. And virtually every advert is saying prestigious, luxury etc and in fact - all the villas on this site are lovely homes, I think you all have something to be proud of, but the reality is that a lot of them aren't luxury or prestigious, they are basic accommodation. I think a star rating would help with this. Because the prices are so close in a lot of instances, it's very hard for a novice to tell whether they are actually getting luxury, upscale accommodation or your usual villa. And I think to this end it's very important to actually clarify this because if it was a honeymoon or something and I had booked 'luxurious', 'prestigious' accommodation to find my house overlooked a dozen others immediately at the back, and it was really basic furniture package furniture, then I would not be at all happy. The pictures do obviously speak volumes but it's not until you actually get into the property do you often see carpet stains, rips in furniture or how MFI looking the furniture is...not saying that's the case with these villas, but you get my point.
[/quote]
Even a star rating might not help that much Arby. It would be way easy for villa owners to manipulate their star rating by simply making sure their home had the requisite bits and pieces and ticked all the right boxes.
The beauty of this site is that it hooks you up directly with the villa owner so, in theory at least, it's as good as it gets for allowing you to make you own informed decision as to whether a villa is prestigious, luxurious or otherwise. Ask the owner to send more photos including close-ups of the furnishings, or different angles of the pool deck, or the house in situ to see how close the other villas are, or the view from the pool to see if it is overlooked. Ask if the furnishings shown in the photos are still in the house, or whether it's gone floral. Ask if there are any visible marks, tears or stains on the carpets. Ask when the carpets were last steam cleaned, or even how much they cost to fit in the first place. Ask what temperature the pool heater is set to, how many channels the TV has or whether the kitchen has a coffee grinder and waffle maker. Ask the owner to justify why they believe that their villa is prestigious or luxurious.
Everyone booking through this site has the most amazing opportunity to know exactly what the villa is like before they even book it, let alone before the arrive and set foot through the door. There should be absolutely no surprises whatsoever; other than a very pleasant one when the reality exceeds even the highest expectations.
This next statement might sound a little harsh, but if anyone books a villa direct with the owner and is then unpleasantly surprised when they set foot in it; well, they've only really theirselves to blame.[/quote]
I find that statement not harsh but absolutely unacceptable. I don't think anyone who hands over a significant amount of money in exchange for any service, goods or accommodation is to blame if they have been misled in any sense.
A villa is not luxurious because it's a villa. A luxurious villa is one because it is of exceptional standard in an exceptional location, with exceptional facilities and amenities. You wouldn't call any house in England luxurious because it's a house would you? The fact that it has a pool is neither here nor there. Most houses in Florida do have pools. It's the climate and location. So does that mean that every pool home in Florida is prestigious [?][?]Reading some of these villa owners reminds me
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Arb, I totally agree with you on that point, noboday should have to shoulder the blame themselves for booking a villa that is unacceptable, as no villa should fall short of expectation. That said, I also agree with Steve, this is a forum that will take the huge majority of guesswork and risk out of the decision to book a holiday villa.
I think we're all getting things a little out of perspective here If you don't mind me saying so, and arguing about semantics. Luxury, executive, prestigious, yes, all descriptions that can be viewed rather subjectively. I don't believe we can put right any wrongs that may be done outside of this forum, so let's not try, however if someone believes that an owner here is exagerating the quality of a villa, then there is a mechanism on the forum to feedback that to everyone else and the owner constantly runs the risk of that. Some may be too polite to give negative feedback but I certainly won't be. I think that the feedback thread is an excellent quality check. Personally, I don't read anything into phrasings like prestigious or luxury, I prefer to find out for myself.
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Arby, there is no organised or official body that is prepared to offer a grading service to the vacation rental homes sector of the accommodation market, so basically each owner is on his/her own when it comes to writing descriptions. Each of us is running a small business and wants to ensure that our business is successful. As far as any authority is concerned, providing we keep our homes up to a strict code, pay all Sales and Tourist tax that is due, and file our annual accounts, then that is where the interest in our business ceases. The code includes safety features and doesn't discriminate between gradings of furnishing/fittings supplied, providing that they are in good condition and suitable for purpose.
Rating homes is something that gets discussed on owners forums, but it is almost impossible to put in place and to run. Unless it was done by some kind of official body then it would not have any meaning or teeth.
I'm think that initially many guests ignore the superlatives and other words used in the adverts and concentrate on the pictures, which generally tell the story "as it is". They will then tend to read the text if they liked the pictures. Guests are then able to determine whether what they see matches what they are reading about. The use of the word "luxury" or any other descriptive word for that matter, tends to be subjective. One guest's idea of luxury may be another guest's idea of either a top quality or basic home. As Steve mentioned, guests are able to ask the owner as many questions as they wish to ensure that what they are buying for their vacation is what they anticipated.
Many owners are frequently told that the pictures don't do their homes justice and that the home is in fact so much lovelier in reality.
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<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Carla
Arby, there is no organised or official body that is prepared to offer a grading service to the vacation rental homes sector of the accommodation market, so basically each owner is on his/her own when it comes to writing descriptions. Each of us is running a small business and wants to ensure that our business is successful. As far as any authority is concerned, providing we keep our homes up to a strict code, pay all Sales and Tourist tax that is due, and file our annual accounts, then that is where the interest in our business ceases. The code includes safety features and doesn't discriminate between gradings of furnishing/fittings supplied, providing that they are in good condition and suitable for purpose.
Rating homes is something that gets discussed on owners forums, but it is almost impossible to put in place and to run. Unless it was done by some kind of official body then it would not have any meaning or teeth.
I'm think that initially many guests ignore the superlatives and other words used in the adverts and concentrate on the pictures, which generally tell the story "as it is". They will then tend to read the text if they liked the pictures. Guests are then able to determine whether what they see matches what they are reading about. The use of the word "luxury" or any other descriptive word for that matter, tends to be subjective. One guest's idea of luxury may be another guest's idea of either a top quality or basic home. As Steve mentioned, guests are able to ask the owner as many questions as they wish to ensure that what they are buying for their vacation is what they anticipated.
Many owners are frequently told that the pictures don't do their homes justice and that the home is in fact so much lovelier in reality.
[/quote]
I can definitely say that Carla's villa is First Class, Luxury etc etc as I have stayed there[msnwink]
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Sorry for two posts back to back but I don't know how to join both into one!
[/quote]
clcik edit and scroll to where you want to begin!!
just want to add i know where your coming from!!:)
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<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Arby
There are many as equally nice homes available for X amount per week or even less. It depends when you bought your villa and how. If you have a high mortgage and bought at the end of a development or you have a low mortgage and bought at the beginning this will all affect how much rent you can afford to take. Now THAT is all relative. [/quote]
Sorry, but the above part of this statement is incorrect and shows a common misunderstanding of economics that can't go unchallenged. It would be too dangerous if other people believed it. The prices of villas is determined by supply and demand. The amount of mortgage on a villa determines its rental rate no more than the amount of mortgage on a hotel detemines its rate. I know of a hotel chain that has no long term debt, and their rooms are certainly not free, or even cheaper than they should be. The only thing a mortgage determines is the net cash flow to the owner.
As far as your battle on terminology goes, that is more subjective than your mistatement of facts about costs and prices. At most, the descriptions could legally be termed "puffery" by US law. An owner is understandably more proud of their villa than others would be...but still villas offer excellent value compared to hotels.
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i think this is getting silly now! it was only someone mentioning different words used to advertise!!
lots of useful words to the individual!! all the villas i have looked at especially through this site are fab, no one is better then anyone else!!! we are all equal just like to do different things!!!
lets just enjoy all the villas we see and appreciate the hardwork gone into them to make them as individual as possible!!![msnwink]
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I cant get my head round why you are so uptight about the wording of adverts, most of the villas out there advertise a gamesroom, but each gamesroom will be totally different from another, we all have private pools but some are different than others and offer more in seclusion,we all have a different outlook at the rearof our properties, some are closer to Disney than others, it doesn't matter as we all get our bookings ( usually) based on the photo's and level of professionalism when dealing with our guests, not the wording, albeit it may help to catch the potential renters eye in the begining.
I have four villas, all different than the next, different interiors and slightly different exteriors, it does not set me back by saying luxury, prestigious, and any other positive adjective that comes to mind, nor do I feel guilty about writing these words in my adverts. I have yet to receive negative comments with regard to this.
And by the way, I own a lovely little Corsa and a 330CLK Mercedes Cabriolet and I really dont mind which I drive, and I am a very intelligent person, both get me from A to B.
If you ever purchased a Luxury villa in Florida of your own, I would be interested in how your own advert would sound. :)
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<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Arby
There are many as equally nice homes available for X amount per week or even less. It depends when you bought your villa and how. If you have a high mortgage and bought at the end of a development or you have a low mortgage and bought at the beginning this will all affect how much rent you can afford to take. Now THAT is all relative. The description of standard accommodation as 'luxury' is not.
[/quote]
Actually Arby, you are making the same mistake there that many people make; that owners who own a property without a mortgage can afford to rent it out for less.
If you put, for example, $350,000 (typical value of a villa) into a bank, would you expect the bank to pay interest on it? Of course you would. In fact, because you are dealing with such an amout you would probably expect way more interest than it you just had a few dollars on deposit. It's no different with property. If you have $350k tied up in property, any sensible (note the use of the word sensisble) person will be expecting something like a 5%+ return on that money. Any smart investor will be expecting a 5%+ return on that money *excluding* the appreciation in price of the property. That's basic business and basic economics.
On the subject of quality. If you seriously believe that a bottom end villa is of the same quality than a bottom end hotel, just bigger, then either a) you've stayed in some god-aweful villas and the owners should be shot if they advertised them as luxury, or b) you haven't stayed in a bottom end hotel.
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I started this thread as a kind, but constructive feedback thread for owners and it is fast becoming a battle ground!!![msnsad]
Can we please keep it nice and friendly!!!!
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There is no battle Julie it is just a discussion:D
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<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Cruella DeVilla
There is no battle Julie it is just a discussion:D
[/quote]
Its just getting a bit too heated[msnsad]
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Naw its fine, we all love a bit of a debate[:P]
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That's what forums are for, so that everyone can have their say ( good or not so good)
"contstructive critisism rules":D
