View Full Version : US Immigration on Tonight with Trevor McD
For all those with immigration questions on here, have you just watched Tonight programme about US Immigration treatment of UK and other citizens, could put you off going for life!!!!
Scotborder
20-07-2004, 02:25
Yes the programme does make you think twice, a bit of a horror stories.
yes we watched the program and it doesn't surprise me of what the americans are doing,i've been told by others who have been to the US what it is like well OTT
orlandobabe
20-07-2004, 03:03
No-it wasn't very nice was it. I certainly hope the tv company that made it sent a copy to all the american tv companies-as they need to know just what is going on in their country!
pwwhitehead
20-07-2004, 03:14
Didn't watch the program. But I can guess the things you are relating to. i have read various reports in The Times over how people are treated. Just my opinion, but after the elections, I firmly believe they will make it even harder to gain entry. A cancellation of the visa waiver probram for starters. B2 visas for all. they tried to reduce the time of the visa waiver last year but backed down. they wre in a recession then and needed foreign money. that's not the case now. i think the will revert to kind. Insular!i refer to the goverment it these comments. Not the american people as a whole
flyrr100
20-07-2004, 06:48
I live here in Florida so I didn't see the show. Can anyone post a sonopsis here?
I think everyone needs to keep a bit of perspective here. They mentioned 150 cases in over a year compared to 4 million visitors from the UK. For starters that is a tiny proportion who have had problems. Yes they are horror stories and yes it does happen but lets not forget that we're talking about a country that pre 9/11 had little idea what domestic terrorism was like. Most of us have become complacent to a certain extent as we have lived with it in our midst.
I would imagine the US is no better or worse than most other countries in that miscarriages of justice do happen, its a fact of life. It was a piece of sensationalist journalism by a TV company on the same par as the Sun and the Mirror IMO.
Sorry folks rant over..... but nothng will stop me visiting a place I love :)
(now ducking down and waiting for incoming !!!!):D:D:D
floridadreamvilla.co.uk
20-07-2004, 12:37
Was it just me or did just about all the cases mentioned involve New York's JFK airport (except one in Atlanta). How they can the Homeland Security people make the official statement and deny it all at the end is just beyond me. I can only assume they think people are stupid and believe them as I cannot see any reason for any of the passengers concerned to be making it up.
They should be investigating and taking action against the employees concerned as it was a clear abuse of these passengers human rights not being given food and water for 24 hours (amongst other things). These people need to lose their jobs as they are clearly not fit to be doing them.
flyr100: it involved the cases of quite a few travellers to the US from the UK being stopped at immigaration on arrival in the US and then being detained in shackles in local jail holding cells (full of very dodgy looking people with blood on them who had obviously been in fights, and drug people) without any recourse to legal advice or the UK embassy for extended periods. They were not allowed food or water and then after 8 or so hours questioned and made to feel like criminals, then deported back to the UK after 24 or more hours of this torture.
One lady was detained solely on the basis of the colour of her skin (they made up things she was supposed to have done, like staying too long on a visa waiver last time she was in the US - she can easily prove this to be untrue but they did not want to listen). Another man, who worked for a US parent company was detained because he had an outstanding speeding fine of $65 which he had tried to pay but was told by the police at the time not to bother as it was too much paperwork.
They use the excuse of terrorism for all this which is just unbleiveable as all of the people on the program were very clearly just ordinary decent folks trying to go about their business.
I think the powers that be need to sit down and properly think this all out before the US ends up alienating her friends and allies as I know for one I would never go back to the US if I was treated in this way as it's just unbelievable.
The program certainly made you think and I would imagine put a lot of people off going to the US, I will look at the security quite differently when I go - mind you I think they always look scarey, sometimes a smile would not go a miss! I can remenmber the first time we went out and the imigration was quite daunting and could have put us off for life!
Cruella DeVilla
20-07-2004, 14:05
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by ravtino
The program certainly made you think and I would imagine put a lot of people off going to the US, I will look at the security quite differently when I go - mind you I think they always look scarey, sometimes a smile would not go a miss! I can remenmber the first time we went out and the imigration was quite daunting and could have put us off for life!
[/quote]
Disagree totally. As Rosie said millions of Brits/Europeans travel to the USA every year. I have been treated very well on my last few ocassions. Last trip we were shown to the front of a very long xray queue by an English born official. Other occasions I have had my hand shock and welcomed. You have to realise that it is not meant to be a friendly process entering the US, they are screening for potential terrorists. Best thing to do is just hand your passports over with the correctly filled in documents, be polite and do not argue with anything they say!!!!! They hold all the cards. No jokes, about explosives like some silly girl in Miami, she was detained for some time,served her right, none of it is a joking matter.
Strong opinion I know.
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:They use the excuse of terrorism for all this which is just unbleiveable as all of the people on the program were very clearly just ordinary decent folks trying to go about their business.[/quote]
Surely no one is naive to think terrorists dont have everyday jobs ?? I personally think it is worth the mistreatment of 150 people out of so many millions if it meant catching 1 terrorist
I agree 100% with you Rosieuk, we are about a fraction of people compared to the amount of visitors to the US. I know that this doesnt make it ok but a sense of perspective is needed, i am pretty sure some visitors to the uk get treated in similar fashion.
floridadreamvilla.co.uk
20-07-2004, 14:39
I think you are missing the point - the people on the program were stopped for things totally unrelated to terrorism i.e. colour of your skin, unpaid driving fine etc etc. How are these people any more likely to be terrorists than anyone else in the immigration line?
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by darrenm
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:They use the excuse of terrorism for all this which is just unbleiveable as all of the people on the program were very clearly just ordinary decent folks trying to go about their business.[/quote]
Surely no one is naive to think terrorists dont have everyday jobs ?? I personally think it is worth the mistreatment of 150 people out of so many millions if it meant catching 1 terrorist
[/quote]
I agree and dissagree with you Darrenm, yes all must go to any lengths to fish out the terrorists, BUT because you have an unpaid parking ticket does not tie in with terrorism surely, would a terrorist leave the US with an unpaid ticket knowing on entry it would show up on their database??? The whole point oof the programme was not that UK inocents were being deported for no reason it was that the way in which they were treated often for 23 hrs without food or water, The programme ended with the statement that all this is achieving is making travellers/tourists think again about the US. Are you telling me that Florida does not need tourism????
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:I think you are missing the point - the people on the program were stopped for things totally unrelated to terrorism[/quote]
Thats exactly my point, terrorists dont go around wearing "i am a terrorist" badge so anything and everything should be done to sniff them out. If that means stopping someone because they are black,brown,yellow,white or whatever colour skin they have then so be it. Yes the people in the program were innocent but what about the ones that werent ?? wouldnt make good tv show them actually catching terrorists would it ??
Alfie i see what your saying and it is a shocking way to be treated but sometimes i think the end justifies the means. I think we all know FLorida needs tourism :)
Anyway right or wrong thats my thoughts
UUUUMMMM stopping and questioning yes mistreatment NO, We have lived with the threat of the IRA for many many years and the civilized of us do not treat all Irish with contempt. 150 innocents to catch one terrorists some may argue we stopped the death penalty on such grounds!! I feel if i was one of the 150 i would not agree with you..the thing that really got to me was that the employees concerned with the mistreatment seemed to be enjoying it 'laughing and whispering' it was quoted.
floridadreamvilla.co.uk
20-07-2004, 15:21
My thoughts exactly!
To stop someone based solely on the colour of their skin is nothing to do with catching terrorists - it's just blatant racism and I for one am embarrased and saddened for the individuals that feel they have to act this way. Surely there must be rules and guidelines for the immigration people to follow and I am pretty confident this is not one of the rules on the list - they *must* have to have another reason.
Just mentioning the Irish theme for a moment: I used to work for an Irish company and travel to Irelend as regularly as once a week. When you come back into the UK you have to go past Special Branch officers who have the right to stop and question you. Every time I wore a suit I would sail through but every time I did not I could guarantee I would get stopped and questioned. All IRA terrorists have to do is wear a suit and they will sail into the UK unchallenged - totally ridiculous. Just goes to show it's not just the US with big faults at their arrival ports [msnwink]
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by alfie
UUUUMMMM stopping and questioning yes mistreatment NO, We have lived with the threat of the IRA for many many years and the civilized of us do not treat all Irish with contempt. 150 innocents to catch one terrorists some may argue we stopped the death penalty on such grounds!! I feel if i was one of the 150 i would not agree with you..the thing that really got to me was that the employees concerned with the mistreatment seemed to be enjoying it 'laughing and whispering' it was quoted.
[/quote]
Cruella DeVilla
20-07-2004, 15:31
The media strikes again, gets my goat up!
At the end of the day it is their country, if you do not want to play by their rules do not visit, that is your perogative. It is all about choice. How many people were afraid to travel after 9/11? Better to be safe than sorry.
I am NOT unsympathetic with the people, some who were stopped for what seem trivial reasons. On the other hand Interpol issued warrants for one of the guys, so that was nowt to do with the homeland security, who knows what goes on behind the scenes.
Racism, no matter how ugly is everywhere and I agree people should not be targeted solely on the colour of their skin.
BUT I am unaware that playing 'by their rules' is taking away peoples basic human rights that is not their rules.
Cruella DeVilla
20-07-2004, 16:28
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by alfie
BUT I am unaware that playing 'by their rules' is taking away peoples basic human rights that is not their rules.
[/quote]
Look at GT Bay!
Not trying to get into a bunfight over this one but I know the business and as I have said it is their country. I feel this is not the place to be discussing it so not going to say too much more. I own a villa in Florida and it is important for me to be able to get in and out with no hassles to.
sandra777
20-07-2004, 16:41
Lets get this in perspective, there have always been a minority of Immigration officials in the US who have an attitude problem towards all visitors to their country and 9/11 just gives them the excuse to justify their obnoxious behaviour. They let down the vast majority of their colleagues who do their job efficiently and politely. I have far more good experiences of these officials than bad but sadly it is bad ones that stick in the mind and the really bad ones that make headlines. The threat of terrorism is a very real one, only last year Gatwick customs found a passenger with a live grenade in their baggage leading to the closure of the airport. Perhaps US immigration should look at the systems in place in the UK that allows officers who have more complaints against them than their colleagues to be retrained and even moved from the front line. At he end of the day being rude to a visitor does not help identify them as a terrorist, rather the reverse.
Well after all is said and done i will be going back, I love Florida, AND i feel safer for the security measures put in place...
chrizzy100
20-07-2004, 18:16
The point being made from how I see it without seeing the show that is......is not the being stopped......but the chains and no food or drink......not even someone carrying a gun onboard a plane would get that treatment because they would be getting a day in court.....for it all to come out into the open.......
Nostromo
20-07-2004, 20:24
As I have said elsewhere, I beleive this is just a post-Iraq fallout - a sort of McCarthyisque paranoia of "Red under the bed". Only in this case, the 'Red' is a militant Islamic terrorist. Everyone walking up to a US immigartion desk will be considered a terrorist until proven otherwise. Hopefully, this is a passing phase that will be eventually replaced by a more level-headed system, but while it is in place the US administration are risking losing out on what friends they have left.
I think they said the first person had flown into the west coast where his in-laws were based.
I have just returned from Florida and on entry was treated with respect by a very friendly and talkative immigration officer.Two plane loads of passengers were processed in around 25 minutes and I being near the end of the queue did not witness anyone being unduely interrogated.
Having lived in N.Ireland for most of my life I have grown up with enhanced security and become accustomed to being treated with suspicion when I open my mouth whatever part of the world I may be in.I have visited the USA on numerous occasions and have always been treated with respect.
If the enhanced security means that travel will be safer and some of these maniacs will be caught then I for one am happy that a "few" mistakes will inevitably be made.
Nostromo
20-07-2004, 23:25
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by chrison
I have just returned from Florida and on entry was treated with respect by a very friendly and talkative immigration officer.Two plane loads of passengers were processed in around 25 minutes and I being near the end of the queue did not witness anyone being unduely interrogated.
Having lived in N.Ireland for most of my life I have grown up with enhanced security and become accustomed to being treated with suspicion when I open my mouth whatever part of the world I may be in.I have visited the USA on numerous occasions and have always been treated with respect.
If the enhanced security means that travel will be safer and some of these maniacs will be caught then I for one am happy that a "few" mistakes will inevitably be made.
[/quote]
I see what you are saying, but at the end of the day only the person or persons subjected to such humiliation know what it really feels like. Human nature being what it is, you might not have been so forgiving had it been yourself or someone close to you who was the unwitting victim of these alleged "immigration check" excesses. One tends to accept the situation in one's own country (like N.Ireland in your case), but there is a certain disilluisionment involved in being humiliated by foreigners when you have paid a substantial part of your savings to get there with the intention of enjoying yourself. I agree that thotough security checks are essential this day and age, but one would have thought that a well equipped and experienced security apparatus would go about it with some discreet professionalism rather than employ an 'iron fist' policy.
In answer to your point " in ones own country". Having lived in London at the height of the troubles in N.I. and flown home every weekend for approx nine months I was on many occasions treated as an undesirable,at Heathrow airport in particular. Being a tolerant person I accepted that this was a part of life if terrorism was to be defeated. I have not changed my views even though the threat of IRA terrorism has subsided.
The threat from Al Queida and the like will not go away by being complacent and if this means that the worlds security forces may at some times be a little over zealous then it is a small price to pay for ones safety. Unfortunately there may be a few innocent people who will suffer some injustice but hopefully it will stop the guilty frm slipping through the net.
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:
If that means stopping someone because they are black,brown,yellow,white or whatever colour skin they have then so be it. Yes the people in the program were innocent but what about the ones that werent ?? wouldnt make good tv show them actually catching terrorists would it ??
[/quote]
there'd be some long waits if you stopped every colour, so how do you choose. I agree people should be stopped and detained for anything suspect, but they could at least be fed and watered.
Bad things happen in this country too. You can hijack a plane threaten to kill passengers and and crew, then you get let off and told you can live here we'll take care of you.[}:)]
Nostromo
21-07-2004, 02:08
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by benfilo
there'd be some long waits if you stopped every colour, so how do you choose. I agree people should be stopped and detained for anything suspect, but they could at least be fed and watered.
[/quote]
I agree, but the 'suspects' predominantly seem to have brown skin. If the American (or British) authorities are looking for Islamic terrorists, how do you 'suspect' on appearances? Muslims can range from pure Caucasian White to Afro Black and yet the greater proportion of so-called suspects seem to be largely somewhere in-between. In the UK racial discriination may not be as obvious as in certain other places but it is still very much alive and kicking....and in some instances actually getting worse. I have lived here for almost 20 years and yet experience discrimination (the 'passive' type which seems to be a UK speciality) time and again. I am a tolerant man and do not carry a chip on my shoulder, but this attitude does seem strange to someone who has never knowingly broken the law.
As I mentioned in my report a few weeks earlier, my Mother-in-law was subjected to a very humiliating experience in the hands of some US Immigration officials at MCO. She is a frail 75 year old woman slowed by arthritis and can barely carry her own hand luggage. Yet, she was made to strike ridiculous poses as they subjected her to the most ridiculous body searches 3 times. All the time the officials' attitude was rude in the extreme and they finally let her go, there was not even a hint of an apology. Having seldom travelled abroad, my poor mother-in-law was rather excited about this trip to Orlando. But the experience at MCO frightened her so much that she could not enjoy rest of the trip and spent a lot of time in the villa on pretext of being 'tired'.
The officials could have done the same job with a bit more coutesy and aplomb. And these are the sort of uniformed morons that someone wants us to address as 'sir' all the time.[msnmad][msnmad]
Scotborder
21-07-2004, 02:12
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by chrizzy100
The point being made from how I see it without seeing the show that is......is not the being stopped......but the chains and no food or drink......not even someone carrying a gun onboard a plane would get that treatment because they would be getting a day in court.....for it all to come out into the open.......
[/quote]
I agree with you chrizzy, it's how they treat people especially if they only committed minor offences. It does not seem right.
the trouble is in all walks of life there are bullies who abuse there authority, some people get a kick out of being able to push people around who are powerless to resist. I remember your posting about your mum in law Nostromo, I imagine it's probably ruined a large part of her holiday.
benfilo
sandra777
21-07-2004, 04:14
A few US Immigration officers (but by no means the majority)do have a very unfortunate approach to visitors. I worked in UK customs for years and we always recognised that the job would attract a small minority of bullies who fancied themselves in a uniform. Fortunately, because this was recognised procedures were in place to weed them out as quickley as possible, usually during their basic training or probation. Any uniformed force should should be aware of this danger and deal with it. In fighting terrorism we need to cultivate our friends not alienate them. I can think of no better way of helping the terrorist than abusing someones human rights.
sonofsos
21-07-2004, 12:04
On entering Washington Airport last year my 7 year old daughter was picked out for a search and an interview. We were taken to a seperate area were the rest of us were seated and she had to stand with her feet in 2 footprints marked on the floor. She was then searched (including having to remove her shoes to be searched) and asked a few questions. All our hand luggage was emptied on to a table and searched including her cuddly toys. The 4 people who done this could not have been nicer and made my daughter out to be special. She really enjoyed the attention and wants to know if she can have the same treatment this year.
Althought the immigration officers were really nice and pleasant what was the point of doing this to a 7 year old. What security risk was she ?
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by sonofsos
On entering Washington Airport last year my 7 year old daughter was picked out for a search and an interview. We were taken to a seperate area were the rest of us were seated and she had to stand with her feet in 2 footprints marked on the floor. She was then searched (including having to remove her shoes to be searched) and asked a few questions. All our hand luggage was emptied on to a table and searched including her cuddly toys. The 4 people who done this could not have been nicer and made my daughter out to be special. She really enjoyed the attention and wants to know if she can have the same treatment this year.
Althought the immigration officers were really nice and pleasant what was the point of doing this to a 7 year old. What security risk was she ?
[/quote]
I'm glad that your daughter found the experience so much fun and that you made her feel special. It could have so easily spoilt her holiday if you had got Immigration Officers with the wrong attitude. I suppose, the sad fact is that some children on flights are used as "Mules" by adults who are hoping that Immigration don't think they are a security risk either.
I've always had good experiences at Immigration. The officers, although severe, were polite and efficient. I agree that these security measures are in place to protect passengers but I do think that these basic Human Rights issues should be dealt with immediately. By denying these rights, it's only adding "fuel to the fire" for terrorists.
On one hand i feel this as unnessassary and could cause distress to a child and i know as a parent i would hate the idea but on the other hand sends a clear message that age, colour, status all are suspects, the GOOD thing about your story is that your daughter and yourselves where dealt with respectfully and rightly so. I have absolutely no quarms about being stopped, searched or even questioned to aid the security of any nation but would hope to be treated in a civilized, respectful manor. In the past the stern faces as passport control seem quite the norm but often a smile and a wink have been reserved for my kids.
Nostromo
21-07-2004, 13:15
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by sonofsos
On entering Washington Airport last year my 7 year old daughter was picked out for a search and an interview. We were taken to a seperate area were the rest of us were seated and she had to stand with her feet in 2 footprints marked on the floor. She was then searched (including having to remove her shoes to be searched) and asked a few questions. All our hand luggage was emptied on to a table and searched including her cuddly toys. The 4 people who done this could not have been nicer and made my daughter out to be special. She really enjoyed the attention and wants to know if she can have the same treatment this year.
Althought the immigration officers were really nice and pleasant what was the point of doing this to a 7 year old. What security risk was she ?
[/quote]
I agree with you on both counts. I think it was silly of them to think a 7 year old girl was a potential security risk, but at least those people were nice to her. I did not claim at the time that our own humiliating experience was race-motivated, but it does make one wonder in retrospect.
anna maria freak
21-07-2004, 14:39
Having been involved in the fight against terrorisim I can see the need to be cautious, terrorists are no respectors of anyones human rights and have in the past been guilty of using children and elderly to carry explosives, by showing that the authorities are prepared to subject children and the elderly to search and questioning may go in some way towards deterring attacks. this can be embarassing for the families concerned and I would sympathise with sonofsoss and nostromo but, better to have some annoyed travellers than an attack.
I unfortunately did not see the programme but can assure everyone that the UK was just as over zealous during the recent past in order to protect their citizens,we shoul be happy that security is seen to be working and making us all safer.
rainyday
21-07-2004, 14:49
Anybody seriously concerned about the possibility of this happening to them could consider travelling via Ireland. The US immigration service have outposts at Dublin and Shannon airports where you can pre-clear immigration - I hope there would be no chance of being chained up and deprived of food and water there! It's a great service - you breeze through the immigration area when you reach the US.
sandra777
21-07-2004, 18:40
Unfortunately the people who smuggle drugs and explosives will deliberately try to place them where they know it is embarrassing for officers to look. I've seen them in babies nappies, the inner tubes of wheel chairs, artificial limbs, childrens toys and sweets etc. Most people have no idea just how common the problem is. At Gatwick and Heathrow more than a thousand drug smugglers are caught every year. At Gatwick alone I've seen as many as seventeen caught in a single day. But all that said, it costs nothing to do the job in a polite and friendly manner.
Being in Florida..did not see the program..but presume it was people just giving their version of events..Could it be there was some exaggeration.. most stories like these get more elaborate as times goes on.. and of course the TV crews are not above telling people to add more spice to the story..
Can i ask if you saw the programme, i dont think i would take it very lightly if i were in there position.
Ipersonally have always been treated very well, but i agree with previous comments, "this needs looking at".<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Cruella DeVilla
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by ravtino
The program certainly made you think and I would imagine put a lot of people off going to the US, I will look at the security quite differently when I go - mind you I think they always look scarey, sometimes a smile would not go a miss! I can remenmber the first time we went out and the imigration was quite daunting and could have put us off for life!
[/quote]
Disagree totally. As Rosie said millions of Brits/Europeans travel to the USA every year. I have been treated very well on my last few ocassions. Last trip we were shown to the front of a very long xray queue by an English born official. Other occasions I have had my hand shock and welcomed. You have to realise that it is not meant to be a friendly process entering the US, they are screening for potential terrorists. Best thing to do is just hand your passports over with the correctly filled in documents, be polite and do not argue with anything they say!!!!! They hold all the cards. No jokes, about explosives like some silly girl in Miami, she was detained for some time,served her right, none of it is a joking matter.
Strong opinion I know.
[/quote]
Synopsis already posted in general chat forum.!!<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by flyrr100
I live here in Florida so I didn't see the show. Can anyone post a sonopsis here?
[/quote]
traceya89
10-08-2004, 05:07
i was talking to some american tourists in stratford upon avon recently and they could not believe what i told them about this programme. i told them about the increased security on arrival in florida and coming out. i also told them about the new rules regarding visas etc and that anyone who had any conviction other than a speeding conviction had to travel to london for a visa prior to being allowed into the usa. sorry to say this but i am sure there are a lot of people in the usa who live there who have some convictions worse than a speeding ticket who are allowed to live there and yet english with a conviction for driving without due care and attention is not allowed entry in to the usa for a 2 week holiday. i am sure the us economy will suffer because of this rule. while i do believe they need to be extra vigilent for terrorists i do think this rule is a bit over the top and a lot of money will be lost because of people not booking their holidays to the usa. i am hoping there will be a lot of cheap flights to florida because of this.
It might be worth mentioning that the rules about having to obtain a visa if you have been arrested or convicted of a crime for entry into the US have been in place for some years, long before the terrorist attacks of 9/11.
Those potential visitors in this category just have to apply for a visa and are not automatically denied entry into the US as all cases are considered on their merit. Most applicants with the type of one off minor offenses will be issued with a visa - they just can't use the visa waiver method of entry to the US.
To be fair, the UK also has similar rules for visitors or immigrants who have criminal convictions - check out the regulations for entry into the UK here http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/servlet/Front?pagename=OpenMarket/Xcelerate/ShowPage&c=Page&cid=1041606064820