View Full Version : E2 process
johnandmariauk
13-07-2004, 19:18
Has anybody come accross the new E2 procedure at the London Embassy? It would appear that the embassy has stopped doing the 'pre-qualifaication' whereby you lined up a business subject to E2, got the visa and then completed the business purchase. I tried to get an interview date but was told they don't do them now. It seems that now you have to buy the business and then hope that you get an E2 afterwards. Not a very comfortable prospect - what happens if you buy the business and then don't get the E2? Scary, or what?
chrizzy100
13-07-2004, 19:34
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by johnandmariauk
Has anybody come accross the new E2 procedure at the London Embassy? It would appear that the embassy has stopped doing the "pre-qualifaication" whereby you lined up a business subject to E2, got the visa and then completed the business purchase. I tried to get an interview date but was told they don't do them now. It seems that now you have to buy the business and then hope that you get an E2 afterwards. Not a very comfortable prospect - what happens if you buy the business and then don't get the E2? Scary, or what?
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You have to buy the business subject to getting your visa.......
Too scary!!! Buying the business subject to getting the visa, we have always done but are you saying you have to close on it before getting the visa as previously you put your money in ecrow but it was refundable and you didnt close unless you were successful?? Closing before getting the visa is too risky. If you close and dont get the visa, what chance is there of the seller taking it back off you. None!! And if you buy the business and there is a delay in processing the visa, your staff will be here rudderless unless you are lucky enough to have a seller who will stay on for transition. You could well arrive to NO business with your staff having lost you the contracts or even worse have pinched your contracts.
This is yet another example of how difficult the E2 visa is. Now on renewal of E2 visa, apparently you cannot do it here in Texas any more but have to go back to the London embassy. They interview you and then mail your passport back to you. Firstly few people on E2 renewal still have a UK address, secondly it could take a week or more. Someones business could go to rack and ruin in that time. This is yet another example of total disregard by immigration for the realities of life on a business visa. And is yet another example of how they dont care, because people on an E2 are just tolerated. Sorry off the soapbox now. Most of you know I am on an E2 and not a great fan of it.
steph_goodrum
14-07-2004, 11:50
". Firstly few people on E2 renewal still have a UK address, secondly it could take a week or more. "
Presumably though Julie you would have to have either a relatives address where you are staying or an hotel because you wouldn't be able to go back to the States (or anywhere else) until they had sent your passport back as you wouldn't be able travel out of the country.
You are right, Steph. It would need to be sent back to a hotel which means staying in the Holiday Inn or wherever until it arrives and you wouldnt even know when it was going to arrive. And how could you book return flights?? . How sensible is that?
johnandmariauk
14-07-2004, 19:39
I just phoned the embassy again to try and get some clarification. It seems that the way they want us to go is that we get the business into escrow, then submit the paperwork to the embassy. They then scrutinise the package, which can take 12 to 16 weeks or more, and then, if they think the business is suitable for E2, they ask us in for an interview. I am not sure how many people selling a business would be willing to wait that long. I tried to make an appointment for an interview, as was the system, but they flatly refused.
Its nice to feel wanted!
That's just exactly the whole point, they don't want you and make life as difficult as they can to get there. It gets worse once you get there as life is double difficult as you're still classed as a non-resident alien.
Just remember, when buying a business, to make the contract subject to getting a visa and, apart from that, it doesn't really sound as if much has changed in the process.
chrizzy100
14-07-2004, 22:42
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by blott
That's just exactly the whole point, they don't want you and make life as difficult as they can to get there. It gets worse once you get there as life is double difficult as you're still classed as a non-resident alien.
Just remember, when buying a business, to make the contract subject to getting a visa and, apart from that, it doesn't really sound as if much has changed in the process.
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The last few years have been hard on a lot of middle class Americans.....they see Tech jobs going to places like India.......and they see people still coming in and getting jobs they could do......I think its just going to get harder and harder to get a visa of any sort in the future......
Seminole
14-07-2004, 23:32
Absolutely true Chrizzy. Three million white collar jobs lost in the US since Bush went into the White House. Personal bankruptcies among Floridians at an all-time high. The real estate training schools are jammed with Americans who have lost middle management jobs, computer programming etc positions.
The painful truth is that people with the "anywhere but the UK" view will have a terrible time in Florida. If you were not entreprenuerial and successful in business in the UK, don't think that things will be different by moving 4000 miles to a foreign country and setting up a business there. Points to consider:
1. Many E2 visa holders are buying businesses in fields already saturated with UK owners. Pool companies, maintenance and management firms, lawn services etc - there are literally hundreds of them in the Disney tourist corridor. Dee O'Bryan of the state licensing agency estimates something close to 700 management companies alone. Unlike Spain, there are only approximately 14,000 vacation properties owned in the area, mostly by UK owners. The competition is intense.
2. UK business owners do not form the kind of tight trade associations or groups marked by other groups such as Vietnamese-Americans or Korean-Americans. These other groups have members who actively help eachother and work to see that they survive and thrive. So you do not have that kind of social safety net.
3. Many UK owners actually had a reasonably comfortable life at home. As odd as this may sound, that puts you at a disadvantage. Many UK owners talk about wanting the sun, to have a "better lifestyle" and then go over to open a restaurant only to find that the two other competiting restaurants nearby are run by immigrants from El Salvador or Korea and who had absolutely nothing in their home countries and think nothing of working 16 hour days, seven days a week. It matters not to them whether it is raining or sunny outside. I've a friend originally from Blackpool, quite educated, who bought a Kissimmee management company and who said to me that if someone had told him that he would be cleaning toilets for the first five years of his Florida stay, he doubted he would have purchased the business.
Can you make a go of it? Of course. Many UK owners have. But it takes a lot of stamina and a very special drive to succeed and to overcome the many obstacles to success that will be in your way.
The process you describe is how it always had been John and Maria and is what I did. It is no different. You have to do it that way or you wont get E2. Most sellers know the score and will wait.
SEMINOLE, FANTASTIC REPLY!!!! Just glad that you penned it not me. I could have said the same thing but am seen as a killjoy on here. So it is great to have back up. Everything you said is ABSOLUTELY TRUE. With some exceptions ( and I have a few good friends here), far from setting up social groups or trade associations the Brits are often the ones who stab each other in the back. That is because we are all going after the same work. And what Seminole says is true about the intense competition, often from people more suited to the work than we are. In lawncare, the Mexicans have it sown up. They will work and work out in the sun, no problem, when the Brits wilt away. Same with hispanics in cleaning, willing to graft 24/7/ And Asians in the 7/11s.
Real estate schools. Florida is producing 150 realtors a week, all looking to make a quick killing. Many of them ex man cos and poolcare people who discover they can make as much on selling one house as in six month cleaning toilets or pools. But there aint enough homes to go around all the new realtors!
And what you say about a comfortable lifetsyle at home is true. My husband was a compouter consultant in the UK. I was a volunteer welfare rights advisor. I now clean toilets and Terry cleans pools, paints decks and unblocks toilets. It is a huge lifestyle change. If you want a business here, look to something you would have wanted to do in the UK not just to what will get you a visa because you may end up doing it for life.
chrizzy100
15-07-2004, 01:47
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by esprit
The process you describe is how it always had been John and Maria and is what I did. It is no different. You have to do it that way or you wont get E2. Most sellers know the score and will wait.
SEMINOLE, FANTASTIC REPLY!!!! Just glad that you penned it not me. I could have said the same thing but am seen as a killjoy on here. So it is great to have back up. Everything you said is ABSOLUTELY TRUE. With some exceptions ( and I have a few good friends here), far from setting up social groups or trade associations the Brits are often the ones who stab each other in the back. That is because we are all going after the same work. And what Seminole says is true about the intense competition, often from people more suited to the work than we are. In lawncare, the Mexicans have it sown up. They will work and work out in the sun, no problem, when the Brits wilt away. Same with hispanics in cleaning, willing to graft 24/7/ And Asians in the 7/11s.
Real estate schools. Florida is producing 150 realtors a week, all looking to make a quick killing. Many of them ex man cos and poolcare people who discover they can make as much on selling one house as in six month cleaning toilets or pools. But there aint enough homes to go around all the new realtors!
And what you say about a comfortable lifetsyle at home is true. My husband was a compouter consultant in the UK. I was a volunteer welfare rights advisor. I now clean toilets and Terry cleans pools, paints decks and unblocks toilets. It is a huge lifestyle change. If you want a business here, look to something you would have wanted to do in the UK not just to what will get you a visa because you may end up doing it for life.
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It was a great post Julie..I second that......and you're not a killjoy....you're very honest and open about the way life is on a E2......
Everyone likes to shoot the messenger, Chrizzy!!
Seminole
15-07-2004, 19:20
Julie, I hope I'm not coming across as all "gloom and doom" as that really isn't my intention. I have long been a proponent of relaxing the rules as it relates to UK emigration to the US as the countries do share a number of values and common experiences. But, as you know, having assisted or advised many UK owners on business or visa issues, I have found that it is a disservice to varnish the reality of life in Florida or the US generally for that matter.
The first question I ask is: "Why do you want to leave the UK". Mostly the answers are: the weather, government bureaucracy/taxes and asylum seekers. Not too long ago, the weather answer was given to me by a gentleman who was absolutely and completely convinced that he wanted to live in Redding, California. "Redding is beautiful, gorgeous trees, blue skies" and on, all of this from two television shows he had seen. Do you know where in California Redding is located, I asked. He was vague. Well, it's in the mountains of northern California and if you like cold and snow, it's the perfect place to live. He seemed stunned and I don't think he really believed me. If the answer is "asylum seekers", keep in mind that your "solution" is to move to a country that is perhaps the most culturally diverse in the world - if you are thinking of buying that management company in Osceola County, understand that 40% of the population of the county is hispanic. How will you feel after investing tens of thousands of dollars in buying a business only to find that the Mexican gentleman picking oranges down the street seems to have more protections and rights than you do.
The hardest thing is to realize that the grass may not be greener on the other side of the fence. The move isn't for everyone. Certainly don't believe what you see on television or on magazines but if you are serious, spend weeks at a time in Florida talking to propective business sellers, other E2 holders and get a true feel for what the decision entails.
Not dooom amd gloom at all, Seminole, but just realism and that isnt what people seem to want to hear ( not from me anyhow) - they dont want to be told how it is but how they would like to think it is. They like to think it is like the emigration TV programmes when like in a fairy tale, "They all live happily ever after" But do they?? It takes a while for the rose coloured glasses to come off and by that time the cameras are gone.
"How will you feel after investing tens of thousands of dollars in buying a business only to find that the Mexican gentleman picking oranges down the street seems to have more protections and rights than yoU do"
Love this bit, Seminole. That is exactly how we feel and no, we dont like it one bit. Our hispanic cleaners who earn $8 a hour are all green card holders. We will probably never be. The US prefers to give green cards to "ethnically diverse people" who dont speak any English and have little education or earning potential rather than to someone who has hundreads of thousands of dollars invested in the US. Green card for the workers, not for the boss. Galling??? Yes!! Even if you know the reasoning behind ethnic diversity it still is!! And funnily enough most US citizens dont understand it either. Most are surprised we dont have green cards.
Contary to opinion, I DONT regret moving here. I have a lovely house in a beautiful place, and my son is very happy and settled in American life. And the weather, well nine months of the year it is wonderful. At the moment too hot and wet!!
What I dont like is the way we had to come here and the horrible sword of Damocles that is hanging over all E2 owners that no matter how much they have invested here in houses, cars, putting their kids through US education etc, that you still feel so very insecure tied to that one business and the horrible inequitable way that a child who has graduated through US school and is settled here can be uprooted and sent packing as soon as he reaches 21. And some of them have been here a lot longer than the four years Matt will have been. All I am sayng is that until something is done to bring E2 into line with L1 and H1B, people should look to OTHER visas if you can, even if you have to spend years setting it up in the UK so that it will work for you in the US, it has to be worth it.
Hi Esprit
I just want to say that I do appreciate everything that you and Chrizzy,and now Seminole have said over the time that I have been a member of the site.
Yes, we do want to get to America to live but after researching the options, and from asking for advice from this site and receiving it from both you and Chrizzy we know that it is going to take work and lots more research before we actually commit to it. We are still determined but as we are both in our early thirties we know that we can take a some time and do it right(hopefully anyway).
Anyway thanks, and I will keep reading so that I can learn from others that have been there and bought the T-Shirt, to coin one of your phrases.
Seminole
19-07-2004, 20:41
Actually Julie, the issue is a little different on the rights of the "ethnically diverse". US authorities, spurred on by industry, are far more interested in cheap labor than more people coming in to to open small hotels and management companies. The US and Europe simply cannot compete any longer with the phenomenally low production costs in China. It is decimating the US economy which is being kept afloat by massive debt (much of which is now held by the Chinese and Japanese). Even installing robots in the manufacturing plants cannot compete with cheap manual labor in China.
I spent several days last week visiting my wife's relatives in a small town in Ohio. In the last 20 years, the town has been severely damaged by departing plants and work. The cruelest irony is that the retraining jobs for the workers in computers etc all have promptly vanished to India in the last three years. I encountered many people who were deeply resentful about globalization, money wasted in Iraq, immigration etc. There will eventually be a backlash and it may very well start with the presidential elections.
chrizzy100
19-07-2004, 21:08
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Seminole
Actually Julie, the issue is a little different on the rights of the "ethnically diverse". US authorities, spurred on by industry, are far more interested in cheap labor than more people coming in to to open small hotels and management companies. The US and Europe simply cannot compete any longer with the phenomenally low production costs in China. It is decimating the US economy which is being kept afloat by massive debt (much of which is now held by the Chinese and Japanese). Even installing robots in the manufacturing plants cannot compete with cheap manual labor in China.
I spent several days last week visiting my wife's relatives in a small town in Ohio. In the last 20 years, the town has been severely damaged by departing plants and work. The cruelest irony is that the retraining jobs for the workers in computers etc all have promptly vanished to India in the last three years. I encountered many people who were deeply resentful about globalization, money wasted in Iraq, immigration etc. There will eventually be a backlash and it may very well start with the presidential elections.
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I know for the first time in years.....the IT classes in the local tech high school here are nearly empty......car repair.....boat engine repair....and car body repair are full because it hard to send a car to China for repairs......and people in the USA are keeping their cars longer......America is running on borrowed time.....with less and less workers to pay taxes......I just keep wondering.....when everyone in the USA is living on min wage....or out of work....whos going to be buying anything more than food anyway......I know a lot of people on the Cape..live from hand to month in hotel rooms with young kids....with both parents working two jobs each.....and every year you see more kids getting off the school bus outside motel rooms.....you can't find much to send back to the UK thats made in the USA....an old man came up to my husband outside the post office for a chat.....and said god bless you for moving to the US and buying an American made car...!
Robert5988
20-07-2004, 00:53
Esprit and Seminole and others,
What a series of tremendous posts! Let us hope it concentrates the minds of the "Grass is Greener"
folk.
I have a number of relatives who live in the USA including an older brother(now approaching retirement)who has lived there all his adult life. Although he is professionally qualified and affluent he maintains that the biggest difference between the two countries is the complete lack of job security in the States - and that includes franchises. At all levels people can get laid off(sacked) at the whim of top management.
Its a pity you cannot impart the same good sense to those buying $300k+ STR homes who are convinced it is their passport to riches.
Seminole
20-07-2004, 03:53
Robert, I also hope that discussions like these help the efforts of average UK and US citizens to "compare notes" on what is happening in their respective economies and what the future holds. I suspect the middle class in both countries is in a more difficult plight than what both governments and the media would have us know.
Job security is simply non-existent now in the US. At least the northern states have vestiges of union rules but the American South has always been anti-union. A British acquaintance asked me at dinner why it seems that American workers take so little vacation time and it is that they are terrified of being replaced. Without work, you have no insurance, period. Without insurance, any serious medical problem leads inevitably to bankruptcy. US medical costs have simply become exorbitant. When I lost my mother three years ago, her ten day stay in hospital exceeded $120,000. So, making sure that you consider ALL of the possible expenses, costs and so forth of coming to the US is essential to the E2 applicant.
Security isnt a way of life in the US. People terminate business contracts on a whim with no notice and as you ao rightly say there is no security of employment. Unfair dismissal and redundancy legislation is a British thing. Health care? Just frightening. Most Brits who fall really ill here just head back to the UK. We have some insurance. Most Brits here dont seem to have any, just too expensive. Theu live on a wing and a prayer.
chrizzy100
20-07-2004, 18:23
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by esprit
Security isnt a way of life in the US. People terminate business contracts on a whim with no notice and as you ao rightly say there is no security of employment. Unfair dismissal and redundancy legislation is a British thing. Health care? Just frightening. Most Brits who fall really ill here just head back to the UK. We have some insurance. Most Brits here dont seem to have any, just too expensive. Theu live on a wing and a prayer.
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We spent a year or so not knowing if this was the day....hubby would be out of work......he'd been layed off in England a few times.....but we always knew for months........here you go in.....and 5 mins later you are out the door....
We have good healthcare....not that we use it.......you can't go near a doctors office without they want to give you pills for this or that.......one visit can scare you to death and cost you $600 a month in pills......