Retirement in Gulf coast. [Archive] - Orlando Villas - Florida Discussion Forums and Guide

Seminole

13-07-2004, 23:44

Annie, I would very strongly suggest that you think of buying that Florida villa in the near future. I say this because I think the days of relatively inexpensive Florida property are soon over. There have been remarkable increases in Florida property values in the last two years, with no sign of stopping, and certainly not all of it is the pound vs. dollar exchange. Millions of Americans are planning to retire to Florida in the next few years fueling even bigger market increases. Condominiums on the coast in many areas are increasing $50,000 to $100,000 A YEAR in value. A beachfront condominium I looked at 18 months ago at $250,000 is now in excess of five hundred!

Many communities such as Clearwater have decided to outlaw short term rentals because the absurd prices being paid by overseas or American "snowbird" investors were making it impossible for local residents to afford housing. That trend is likely to escalate but if you've purchased before the ban takes effect, your villa would be exempted.

Also, while the winter is delightful in Florida, many, many, many UK buyers are rudely shocked by how miserable the summers can be in Florida. The high humidity can drive the heat index over 100 degrees farenheit. I know of many people who find the perfect combination to split the year between the UK and Florida after retirement - but certainly spend a solid August and September in Florida before you make any decisions.

Robert5988

14-07-2004, 00:29

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote: Annie, I would very strongly suggest that you think of buying that Florida villa in the near future. I say this because I think the days of relatively inexpensive Florida property are soon over. There have been remarkable increases in Florida property values in the last two years, with no sign of stopping, and certainly not all of it is the pound vs. dollar exchange. Millions of Americans are planning to retire to Florida in the next few years fueling even bigger market increases. Condominiums on the coast in many areas are increasing $50,000 to $100,000 A YEAR in value. A beachfront condominium I looked at 18 months ago at $250,000 is now in excess of five hundred!

Many communities such as Clearwater have decided to outlaw short term rentals because the absurd prices being paid by overseas or American "snowbird" investors were making it impossible for local residents to afford housing. That trend is likely to escalate but if you've purchased before the ban takes effect, your villa would be exempted.

Also, while the winter is delightful in Florida, many, many, many UK buyers are rudely shocked by how miserable the summers can be in Florida. The high humidity can drive the heat index over 100 degrees farenheit. I know of many people who find the perfect combination to split the year between the UK and Florida after retirement - but certainly spend a solid August and September in Florida before you make any decisions.[/quote]

I would agree with much of the above, except to say that beachfront condos increasing by $50-100,000 is an under-estimate in many areas. $150,000+ is fairly normal as your example illustrates.

Nearly every new Condo building on either coast does not allow STR and restrict rentals to a minimum of 3 months – and then only with the permission of the Condo Board. Those older condos that allow STR are much cheaper to purchase as they quickly get dilapidated and there are invariably problems with STR tenants.

floridapete

25-08-2004, 23:08

It is NOT POSSIBLE just to retire to Florida if you are not a US citizen. There is nothing in US immigration law which embraces the concept of 'wealthy foreignors' just wanting to live in Florida - even if they can be self-supporting, don't want to work, don't need social security or Medicaire or anything else at Uncle Sams expense. They just don't understand the idea and don't want the possibility of geriatric foreignors cluttering up their country in future years !

So there is presently (and I don't see it ever changing) NO way for you to achieve that dream of 'living happy ever after in the Sunshine State' as just a retiree.

Except ....... with a B2 Visa (Visit for Pleasure) you CAN enjoy a 'semi-retirement' as we do !

We spent five months in the USA this last winter, spending time in California, Texas and Florida (including Orlando, Gulf Coast and Atlantic Coast)and this was our fifth year of doing so ! The we come home to England again and enjoy 7 months here. We get the best of both worlds and we are extremely happy with our lot - Wouldn't want to be in Florida in the Summer anyway !!

We are quite happy to 'enjoy what we can' rather than to constantly hanker for something which just ain't ever going to be possible !

Even without a B2 Visa you can still enjoy winters in Florida in two 'shifts' with a break for Christmas back home with the family - many Brit snowbirds do just that on their Visa Waivers.

We normally set out end of October, having enjoyed the English Autumn colours, then we come back to England end of March just in time for the beauty of another Spring.

Our return is also well timed to get out of Florida before it becomes too hot and sticky with the Summer heat and humidity - and the hurricane season starts !

So there you are - there is a way to do it if you just grab what is available to you.

Pete.

P.S. Just saw the bit about your 5 year old child ! Oh, it would be difficult to seem to be a 'snowbird' with such a small child still needing schooling !

The BCIS Entry Inspectors would probably pick that up as soon as she became obviously of school age and they would ask what you were doing about her schooling while you were 'wintering in Florida'.

If you answered 'we'll put her into school here' that could make your B2 Visa void as you would be portraying a degree of 'permanency' and your 'temporary visitors visa' would not allow that.

Could be a quick return on the next plane ????

Robert5988

26-08-2004, 02:53

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:It is NOT POSSIBLE just to retire to Florida if you are not a US citizen. There is nothing in US immigration law which embraces the concept of 'wealthy foreignors' just wanting to live in Florida - even if they can be self-supporting, don't want to work, don't need social security or Medicaire or anything else at Uncle Sams expense. They just don't understand the idea and don't want the possibility of geriatric foreignors cluttering up their country in future years !
[/quote]

FloridaPete,
I agree with what you are saying. However I have posted the extract below in a separate thread. If my understanding is correct it is possible, for all practical puposes, to retire in the USA.

"It seems to be a commonly held belief that under the Visa Waiver Scheme(VWS) visitors can only spend a total of six months in any year in the USA.

As I have no wish to spend that amount of time in the Land of the Free I had not bothered to question that assumption. However a friend, who knows about these things, told me that there is no restriction on the total time you can spend in the USA under the VWS. Obviously the 90 day limit for any one visit and all other conditions still apply.

I have looked at the US embassy web site in some depth and nowhere can I see anything that restricts the aggregate total time you are allowed to spend in the USA under the VWS.

Clearly any stay under the VWS is totally at the discretion of the US Immigration Service, but on the face of it you could leave the country every 90 days and immediately return for another 90 days etc etc.

Have I missed something? Does anyone have any definitive information, as opposed to opinion, that is contrary to my understanding.

Provided you meet all the conditions for the VWS particularly on employment, are solvent, have a return ticket and are not considered to likely to be a burden to the US taxpayer etc etc, it is pertinent to ask why the US authorities would wish to curtail the time you spend in the country."

I repeat that I am not saying I am definately correct but I cannot find anything to the contrary. I visited the USA 7 times last year under the VWS and each time I was given authority for a 3 month stay.

esprit

26-08-2004, 05:57

It is at the discretion of the immigration officer who admits you. You are pushing it. You may get away with it a few more times but eventually you will get an officer with toothache or who has had a row with his wife and be pulled away from the queue and into the little room......

chrizzy100

26-08-2004, 06:48

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by esprit
It is at the discretion of the immigration officer who admits you. You are pushing it. You may get away with it a few more times but eventually you will get an officer with toothache or who has had a row with his wife and be pulled away from the queue and into the little room......
[/quote]

That happen to my friend coming over to see her soon to be husband a few times a year......hours she would spend in an office.....trying to prove she had a job to go home too......the last time before she married....was a nasty one......she was very happy to be coming over the next time after marrying.........

Ray9

26-08-2004, 10:08

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Seminole
housing. That trend is likely to escalate but if you've purchased before the ban takes effect, your villa would be exempted.
[/quote]
Thats not always the case, The home owners association can also change there rules to stop STR without any grandfathering of existing homes.

floridapete

26-08-2004, 16:22

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:I have looked at the US embassy web site in some depth and nowhere can I see anything that restricts the aggregate total time you are allowed to spend in the USA under the VWS.

Clearly any stay under the VWS is totally at the discretion of the US Immigration Service, but on the face of it you could leave the country every 90 days and immediately return for another 90 days etc etc.

Have I missed something? Does anyone have any definitive information, as opposed to opinion, that is contrary to my understanding"

[/quote]

And therein lies the problem - there is nowhere that I have seen it written down either - so some people think that they can make up their own rules - but they can't !!

The thing which the BCIS Entry Inspector is looking for when you present yourself at the desk on arrival is any indication of your attempt to create a degree of 'permanency' in your presence within the United States. If the pattern of arrivals and departures (which shows up on his computer when he swipes your MR passport) indicates that you are seeking to spend more time WITHIN the United States than OUTSIDE of the US, then he will get twitchy and wonder why you seem to have forsaken your place of domicile (home). In other words you are seeking to be an illegal immigrant - and there is only one answer to that !

The usually accepted balance on Visa Waiver and B2 Visas is that you are allowed a total of 180 days in any 365 days (rolling year)within the United States counted back from the time that you present yourself at that desk.

I have passed this question by two BCIS inspectors as I have entered in the last year or so and they both gave me this same answer.

You are entirely in their hands and their word (particularly on VWP) is FINAL - you have no time to reason with them - they are not there to be reasoned with !

Pete.

blott

26-08-2004, 16:39

Pete, the info is here about visa waivers http://www.orlando-guide.info/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=13256

I've copied below the current wording on the American Embassy website at http://www.usembassy.org.uk/cons_web/faqs/niv/faq_visafreetravel.htm#nineteen

Is there a limit to the number of times I may travel to the United States visa free in any given period of time?

There is no limit to the number of times you may travel visa free under the Visa Waiver Program in any given period. There is also no minimum period of time you are required to remain outside the U.S. before reapplying for admission. However, if you are a frequent traveler to the United States you should be sure to carry with you for presentation to U.S. immigration evidence of your residence abroad to which you intend returning at the end of your visit together with evidence of funds sufficient for your support while in the United States. If the oficer of the USCIS is not convinced that you are a bona visitor for business or tourism, you can be denied entry.

So, can you point us in the direction of the official source this 'usually accepted balance' of 180 days in any 365 that you speak of comes from?

Ray9

26-08-2004, 19:39

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by blott
Pete, the info is here about visa waivers http://www.orlando-guide.info/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=13256
So, can you point us in the direction of the official source this 'usually accepted balance' of 180 days in any 365 that you speak of comes from?
[/quote]
I think that would come under custom and practise..
But for those keen on Section 217
have a read:
http://uscis.gov/lpBin/lpext.dll/inserts/slb/slb-1/slb-22/slb-3854?fn=documen***rame.htm&f=templates&2.0

Robert5988

26-08-2004, 21:53

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:And therein lies the problem - there is nowhere that I have seen it written down either - so some people think that they can make up their own rules - but they can't !!

The thing which the BCIS Entry Inspector is looking for when you present yourself at the desk on arrival is any indication of your attempt to create a degree of 'permanency' in your presence within the United States. If the pattern of arrivals and departures (which shows up on his computer when he swipes your MR passport) indicates that you are seeking to spend more time WITHIN the United States than OUTSIDE of the US, then he will get twitchy and wonder why you seem to have forsaken your place of domicile (home). In other words you are seeking to be an illegal immigrant - and there is only one answer to that !

The usually accepted balance on Visa Waiver and B2 Visas is that you are allowed a total of 180 days in any 365 days (rolling year)within the United States counted back from the time that you present yourself at that desk.

I have passed this question by two BCIS inspectors as I have entered in the last year or so and they both gave me this same answer.
[/quote]

Pete,
Well thanks to the extract found by Blott it is now quite clear that there is no restriction of 180 days, or any other period, for remaining in the USA on the VWS.

It is not a question of people thinking they can make their own rules – more a question of finding out exactly what the USA immigration rules are and obeying them to the letter.

I usually find in discussions like this that factual points become merged with opinion and hearsay; which is not helpful to those for whom this discussion is very important.

Having said that - some more hearsay and opinion - but at least I have declared a health warning on my input!

I rang US Immigration today and my brother who lives in California did the same to a different office. The people we spoke to did not agree with your interpretation or that of the 2 BCIS inspectors you spoke to – I wonder why you posed the question twice? In fact I was directed to a section in their website that specifically allows you to travel to Canada or the Caribbean islands, re-enter USA and renew your Visa Waiver for another 90 days.

Taking your point about the pattern of arrivals and departures derived from MR passports. My passport is scanned on arrival but not on departure. I am aware that the bottom portion of the I-94W should be collected by the Airline staff on departure; but they don’t check if you entered under the VWS or with a Visa. However that is a pretty haphazard procedure and there was a thread recently where a number of people came home and found that this portion hadn’t been removed from their passports. They were told it happens all the time and it isn’t a problem. I didn’t even get raised when they next entered America. I wonder therefore just how tight the procedures for recording of departures are.

My final point is that we all know about the powers of US Immigration, how difficult their officers can be, and that you sign away your rights when you enter under the VWS. That said America welcomes tourists and spends vast sums advertising to encourage us to visit as we are beneficial to their economy. It therefore makes no sense to curtail visits of “bona visitors” who meet the criteria they have stipulated. I cannot think of a reason why they would misinterpret their own very clear regulations and applying a ‘unofficial’ or 'custom and practice' ruling giving a “usually accepted balance of 180 days”.

esprit

27-08-2004, 02:39

I have to say we got well quizzed the last time we went out and back in and we have 5 year visas! You pays your money and you takes your chance. Leaving for a few days in Canada or the Carribean is risky, They are continguous countries meaning that Americans can travel to them without passports, the immigration officers are also pretty clued up on this one.

Robert5988

27-08-2004, 03:16

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote: have to say we got well quizzed the last time we went out and back in and we have 5 year visas! You pays your money and you takes your chance. Leaving for a few days in Canada or the Carribean is risky, They are continguous countries meaning that Americans can travel to them without passports, the immigration officers are also pretty clued up on this one..[/quote]

Julie,
Why is it risky? In the section on the Visa Waiver Program FAQ it specifically gives information on the procedure to be adopted to get a further 90 days on the VWS after a trip to Canada or the Carribean.

Frankly I would expect the immigration officers to be pretty clued. It is not as if you are trying to 'pull a fast one' You declare that you have been in the USA and wish for another 90 days stay under the VWS. The rules specifically allow it, and obviously you would expect to be questioned closely; but you should have nothing to hide.

esprit

27-08-2004, 20:09

Are you aiming to set yourself up here with a home and cars and then keep leaving for a few days every three months? That is risky. We have 5 year E2 visas and know that every time we leave, it is at the discretion of the immigration officer to let us in. We never really know and breathe a sigh of relief as we walk away from the desk as our whole lives are here. And we are here permanently and legally.
You are not supposed to have a continuous stream of visa waivers with short gaps in between. You will start ending up with hassle every time you come in and have to spout the law as you know it to the immigration officer ( and believe you me most are totslly soulless and humourless) never really knowing what is going to happen. We were coming in four times a year before we got our visas and they were already starting to ask us questions about whether my husband had a joib in the UK. If you just want to come in five or six times a year from the UK on visa waiver, then the worst that can happen is that one time you will end up on the next plane back. If you want to spend long periods here, you need a visa, at least a B2.

Robert5988

27-08-2004, 22:15

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Are you aiming to set yourself up here with a home and cars and then keep leaving for a few days every three months? That is risky. We have 5 year E2 visas and know that every time we leave, it is at the discretion of the immigration officer to let us in. We never really know and breathe a sigh of relief as we walk away from the desk as our whole lives are here. And we are here permanently and legally.
You are not supposed to have a continuous stream of visa waivers with short gaps in between. You will start ending up with hassle every time you come in and have to spout the law as you know it to the immigration officer ( and believe you me most are totslly soulless and humourless) never really knowing what is going to happen. We were coming in four times a year before we got our visas and they were already starting to ask us questions about whether my husband had a joib in the UK. If you just want to come in five or six times a year from the UK on visa waiver, then the worst that can happen is that one time you will end up on the next plane back. If you want to spend long periods here, you need a visa, at least a B2.[/quote]

Julie,
Firstly in answer to your question:-

I have a vacation home in Florida but visit other parts of the USA frequently – much as I like the USA I have absolutely no wish to live there permanently. I use rental cars of relative’s cars. Having just checked I find that I have spent 22 weeks in the USA in the last 12 months. It is possible that I may want to spend more than that in another year and that would be more than the 180 days that gets bandied about as the “usually accepted balance” etc etc.

I don’t wish to sound argumentative but your experiences with on 5 year E2 visas are, I suggest, not relevant to Visa Waiver Program entrants. Your circumstances presumably are different in that you are of working age(Although not an OAP I do not work) and your earlier frequent visits under the VWS would understandably attract attention from the Immigration Officers.

Many people visit this site for authoritative information and get it! For some (like Ferrari) the aggregate length of stay allowed under the VWS is of huge importance.
However too often opinions and beliefs are expressed as authoritative statements.

You stated in an earlier post “6 months only I am afraid”. In this post “You are not supposed to have a continuous stream of visa waivers with short gaps in between” and “If you want to spend long periods here, you need a visa, at least a B2.”

With respect I submit, however well intentioned, these are simply your opinions. Blott asked earlier where is this laid down in regulations, as in fact the regulations very specifically allow frequent stays under the VWS and as said earlier calls to the US immigration service appear to support that view.

I hope without sounding patronising I can say that I have appreciated the good sense in many of your posts and have no wish to get into an argument; but in view of the importance of this subject I felt I should comment.

Ray9

28-08-2004, 02:58

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Robert5988

I rang US Immigration today and my brother who lives in California did the same to a different office. The people we spoke to did not agree with your interpretation or that of the 2 BCIS inspectors you spoke to – I wonder why you posed the question twice? In fact I was directed to a section in their website that specifically allows you to travel to Canada or the Caribbean islands, re-enter USA and renew your Visa Waiver for another 90 days.

Thats actually not what its says. It says you can make a new application for admission.. you will not necessarily get admitted.
I don't know which office you rang, but in the US there is only one number to contact the USCIS and that is manned by contract workers
who can only read the web site the same as you. They are a few CIS officers there but they only get involved in Immigration matters. This dept is known as the Mis-iformation line and is due to be disbanded in the near future.

Robert5988

28-08-2004, 03:41

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Thats actually not what its says. It says you can make a new application for admission.. you will not necessarily get admitted.
I don't know which office you rang, but in the US there is only one number to contact the USCIS and that is manned by contract workers
who can only read the web site the same as you. They are a few CIS officers there but they only get involved in Immigration matters. This dept is known as the Mis-iformation line and is due to be disbanded in the near future.[/quote]

Ray,
As I have stated in my posts that you have to fully meet the criteria that is laid down on the Visa Waiver Program, I assumed that it would be taken as read that you would be making an application.

Mis-information line or not they directed me to the correct section and that ties in with the extract Blott posted.

esprit

28-08-2004, 04:09

I have cut and pasted a piece of that information provided by Blott that you keep referring to. "If the oficer of the USCIS is not convinced that you are a bona visitor for business or tourism, you can be denied entry." This thread is on retirement in the US. If the immigration officers have any suspicion that anyone is actually retiring here and not just spending short periods here for business or tourism, they can deny entry under the visa waiver scheme.

I am actually over 50 as is my husband and though we do work here, we were of an age when we could easily have been retired when quizzed by immigration on our intents. At that time we had come in four times in a year on visa waiver. We were always travelling with Florida as end destination and that may be the difference.

Robert5988

28-08-2004, 04:48

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote: I have cut and pasted a piece of that information provided by Blott that you keep referring to. "If the oficer of the USCIS is not convinced that you are a bona visitor for business or tourism, you can be denied entry." This thread is on retirement in the US. If the immigration officers have any suspicion that anyone is actually retiring here and not just spending short periods here for business or tourism, they can deny entry under the visa waiver scheme.
[/quote]

Julie,
I am aware that the thread was about Retirement however you stated flatly “6 months only Im afraid” and others supported that statement. It was this aspect I was addressing.

Obviously that which you cut and pasted from Blott’s extract is 100% correct – so I don’t think we disagree on anything there.

Having stated earlier that opinion is often expressed as an authoritative statement, let me give an opinion if I may.

For all the draconian sentiments expressed about the US Immigration Service – which I agree with – I really don’t think they are concerned about how long Brits stay in America if the regulations so allow – and they do. Obviously this is provided they meet all of the criteria to the letter of the law – funds - not likely to be a burden to Uncle Sam etc etc. Also if they had any reservations at any time you applied for entry under the VWS you would not be deported but given a warning and authority to stay for a shorter time.

But I repeat the above paragraph is only an opinion.

chrizzy100

28-08-2004, 05:22

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Robert5988
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote: I have cut and pasted a piece of that information provided by Blott that you keep referring to. "If the oficer of the USCIS is not convinced that you are a bona visitor for business or tourism, you can be denied entry." This thread is on retirement in the US. If the immigration officers have any suspicion that anyone is actually retiring here and not just spending short periods here for business or tourism, they can deny entry under the visa waiver scheme.
[/quote]

Julie,
I am aware that the thread was about Retirement however you stated flatly “6 months only Im afraid” and others supported that statement. It was this aspect I was addressing.

Obviously that which you cut and pasted from Blott’s extract is 100% correct – so I don’t think we disagree on anything there.

Having stated earlier that opinion is often expressed as an authoritative statement, let me give an opinion if I may.

For all the draconian sentiments expressed about the US Immigration Service – which I agree with – I really don’t think they are concerned about how long Brits stay in America if the regulations so allow – and they do. Obviously this is provided they meet all of the criteria to the letter of the law – funds - not likely to be a burden to Uncle Sam etc etc. Also if they had any reservations at any time you applied for entry under the VWS you would not be deported but given a warning and authority to stay for a shorter time.

But I repeat the above paragraph is only an opinion.

[/quote]

The question was......'How easy is it to just emigrate to the lovely Gulf coast and buy a house, not wanting to work at all - just to retire there?
The house would be bought outright and our daughter is 5.'

And the best advice to give someone in answer to that question is.....a stay of 6 months would be best........because you can't emigrate to the USA if you're retired........now maybe people can come and go easy enough on a VW....but no-one on this site will tell someone else its a good idea..to keep leaving and coming back in after just a few days or weeks.......having a friend in US Immigration I can tell you they are very interested in how long people from the UK stay..and how they come and go into and out of the US...so Julies
'6 months only Im afraid' is the best advice going for the question asked........:)

esprit

28-08-2004, 08:30

If you want to be pedantic, I guess I should have said you can only stay for 6 months continuously. And that is on B2 visa. Sure you can stay for three months on visa waiver, go home for a few weeks and then come back in for another three months, Floridapete on here does that without any problem as far as I am aware. But the problems start when there are multiple periods of three months linked togather with very short spells abroad, sometimes not in the UK even but in Mexico, Canada or the Caribbean, then that gives rise to suspicion that you are not a bona fide visitor for tourism but have established a degree of permanence in the US which is not allowed under the visa waiver scheme. That is when the problems start. Especially if the people no longer have a home in the UK which is a test of permanence.
As to your statement that immigration dont really care how long Brits stay as long as they meet the regulations and are not a burdon financially, firstly they do need to meet those regulations and secondly you obviously have not had the same experience of immigration that Chrizzy and I who actually live here have. The have tightened up considerably on everything in the last year or so. If they start relaxing on this, it will open the floodgates to retirees and they decided they didnt want this when they threw out the proposed retirement visa a few years ago. It isnt enough just not be a financial burdon on the country, what they want is positive active investment which employs Americans. Loads of us on E2 would not have bothered buying a business at all if it was that easy....

Robert5988

28-08-2004, 13:35

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:If you want to be pedantic, I guess I should have said you can only stay for 6 months continuously. And that is on B2 visa. Sure you can stay for three months on visa waiver, go home for a few weeks and then come back in for another three months, Floridapete on here does that without any problem as far as I am aware. But the problems start when there are multiple periods of three months linked togather with very short spells abroad, sometimes not in the UK even but in Mexico, Canada or the Caribbean, then that gives rise to suspicion that you are not a bona fide visitor for tourism but have established a degree of permanence in the US which is not allowed under the visa waiver scheme. That is when the problems start. Especially if the people no longer have a home in the UK which is a test of permanence.
As to your statement that immigration dont really care how long Brits stay as long as they meet the regulations and are not a burdon financially, firstly they do need to meet those regulations and secondly you obviously have not had the same experience of immigration that Chrizzy and I who actually live here have. The have tightened up considerably on everything in the last year or so. If they start relaxing on this, it will open the floodgates to retirees and they decided they didnt want this when they threw out the proposed retirement visa a few years ago. It isnt enough just not be a financial burdon on the country, what they want is positive active investment which employs Americans. Loads of us on E2 would not have bothered buying a business at all if it was that easy....[/quote]

Julie,
On this matter I do wish to be pedantic.

1. FloridaPete doesn’t come in on a VW according to his statement:

"Except ....... with a B2 Visa (Visit for Pleasure) you CAN enjoy a 'semi-retirement' [u]as we do </u>!"

2. “if the people no longer have a home in the UK which is a test of permanence” I completely agree that in that case they do not meet the criteria for a VW entry.

3. That I obviously have not had the same experience of US immigration as you may be true, but I fail to see why your entry into USA on a Visa, or indeed living in the USA, equips you to be an authority on the VW scheme. – that you don’t use.

I really do know what the original post asked and like many threads in this forum the discussion understandably widened. As I have said before I was challenging the assertion that 6 months in a year is the maximum you can stay in the USA without the appropriate Visa. As you now state “Sure you can stay for three months on visa waiver, go home for a few weeks and then come back in for another three months,” you appear to have gone some way to conceding that there is not a limit of 6 months in the year.

So let me ask you a straight question. Do you still assert that there is a limit of 6 months in a year for entry using the Visa Waiver Scheme?

If you do point me(and Blott) to the regulations please.

esprit

28-08-2004, 18:39

Firstly I used the visa waiver scheme coming and going four times a year for 12 years before I ever got a visa,

Secondly I never said there was a limit of 180 days in 360 on the visa waiver scheme. You may be able to manage more than that provided no immigration officer decides that you are not a bona fide tourist when he can deny you entry. So if you keep coming and going with reasonable sized gaps in between ( ie not two days in Mexico) and add all the days up they may total more than 180. But this isnt retirement in the US, it is a retired person doing a lot of visitng. The question was can I retire in the US and the just six months referred to in the answer was six month continually under a B visa. The word retirement to me means permanently live here. If it means something else to you or anyone else, then I apologise. This is my last word on this subject as you are now turning my words around and reading your own meaning into them and I have better things to do.

chrizzy100

28-08-2004, 18:50

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by esprit
Firstly I used the visa waiver scheme coming and going four times a year for 12 years before I ever got a visa,

Secondly I never said there was a limit of 180 days in 360 on the visa waiver scheme. You may be able to manage more than that provided no immigration officer decides that you are not a bona fide tourist when he can deny you entry. So if you keep coming and going with resaonable sized gaps in between ( ie not two days in Mwxico) and add all the days up they may total more than 180. But this isnt retirement in the US, it is a retired person doing a lot of visitng. The question was can I retire in the US and the just six months referred to in the answer was six month continually under a B visa. The word retirement to me means permanently live here. If it means something else to you or anyone else, then I apologise. This is my last word on this subject as you are now turning my words around and reading your own meaning into them and I have better things to do.
[/quote]

I think the word used was.....'emigrate'......more then retirement... which to me says the lady wished to move here full time........so again the right answer to that question is....no you can't just emigrate to the USA after your retirement..not matter how much money you have...but you can stay for up to 6 months with the right visa.....

floridapete

29-08-2004, 13:04

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Annie 10
How easy is it to just emigrate to the lovely Gulf coast and buy a house, not wanting to work at all - just to retire there?
The house would be bought outright and our daughter is 5.
[/quote]

So whatever happened to Annie ? We haven't heard anything from her since her first posting on this question ?

Is she still reading the responses - or did she get so fed up with the rantings and the confusions that she retired to Spain instead ?

Let's hear from you Annie !

blott

29-08-2004, 16:00

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by floridapete
So whatever happened to Annie ? We haven't heard anything from her since her first posting on this question ?

Is she still reading the responses - or did she get so fed up with the rantings and the confusions that she retired to Spain instead ?

Let's hear from you Annie![/quote]Annie's original question was dated 15 June and your first post on this thread was 25 August. I don't see any confusion, just differing opinions and still nothing official quoted as to your statement that visa waiver is only available for 180 days in any 365?

Just as a matter of interest, do you use a visa waiver to visit the USA?

esprit

29-08-2004, 20:41

I think you will find that Floridapete does it the right way and has a B2 visa, Blottie as Robert was quick to point out to me further up the thread. Also the statement that the visa waiver is only 180 days out of 365 also came from Floridapetes post and I never stated that anywhere on this thread though Robert later attributes the statement to me. As to Annie, dont rate her chances much with a 5 year old, Pete. All that travelling back and forth on visa waiver would interfere hellishly with her schooling:D

blott

29-08-2004, 22:13

Julie, what you said was <blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote: Wouldnt it be luvely!!! 6 months only Im afraid.[/quote] which I think is what Robert was also picking up on, as well as the statement by Floridapete that only 180 days in any 365 were allowed.

I've also just noticed that Floridapete says he uses a B2 visitors' visa in his original post so you're right about that.

Just now waiting for a response from Floridapete then on the question of the official version of 180 days only allowed in any 365 then as it still seems to be a matter of unconfirmed conjecture at the moment.

esprit

30-08-2004, 00:20

Actually, jeffc first says "you will need a visa", and then Chrizzy first and then and I second both say 6 months only. I say later in the thread that I meant 6 months contiuouus and I dont consider coming and going on visa waiver to be relevant to a thread on retirement, especially when the eqnuirer used the word "emigrate" and there is a child is in the party. As to Floridapetes statement, I dont know the answer to that one, so we will see if he replies.

chrizzy100

30-08-2004, 00:52

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by esprit
Actually, jeffc first says "you will need a visa", and then Chrizzy first and then and I second both say 6 months only. I say later in the thread that I meant 6 months contiuouus and I dont consider coming and going on visa waiver to be relevant to a thread on retirement, especially when the eqnuirer used the word "emigrate" and there is a child is in the party. As to Floridapetes statement, I dont know the answer to that one, so we will see if he replies.
[/quote]

We'll have to remember to say 6 months at one time.....
I think the subject went a bit off topic going from emigrating.....to making lots of visits to the USA in one year.....
A family with a child would not be able to keep leaving the country and coming back in again.....the cost alone could be a problem...and would that not count as missusing the system..[?]...the VW is for holiday makers and stort stay visiters.....selling up and making your home here on a VW would be something I hope no-one would think is a good idea.......

blott

30-08-2004, 02:22

As I said before, we're still waiting for the official version of what Floridapete is saying about the length of stay being restricted to 180 days in every 365. Perhaps when we have that, we'll all be in a position to have learnt something about visa waiver travel to the US as he obviously knows something we currently don't.

It's important that we get the info right for both the people who were enquiring on this thread and also for future reference for anyone else.

floridapete

30-08-2004, 15:01

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by blott
As I said before, we're still waiting for the official version of what Floridapete is saying about the length of stay being restricted to 180 days in every 365. Perhaps when we have that, we'll all be in a position to have learnt something about visa waiver travel to the US as he obviously knows something we currently don't.

It's important that we get the info right for both the people who were enquiring on this thread and also for future reference for anyone else.
[/quote]

Sorry that you've had to wait a while for me to get back to answering your question of me - but I don't monitor this Forum several times a day. There is a life outside and I really can't be bothered to 'ping pong' questions and answers back and forth as some people seem happy to do.

Whe I first set out to help "Annie" with her question my replies were based on our own experiences over many years travelling in the USA on our B2 Visas (which we have had since 1979 - well before Visa Waiver was ever even thought of). Therefore, our winterings in Florida are based on our B2 Visa useage and we stayed up to 5 months this last winter.

Any comments I may have made on the subject of maximum and aggregate length of stay in the USA using Visa Waiver Program (VWP) were based simply on my extensive knowledge and experience of the visa systems - and not on anything which I have seen printed anywhere as I stated "therein lies the problem that it is not printed anywhere" (so far as I can find).

My questions of the two BCIS officers on VWP repeat visits were simply to query the situation on behalf of many people I know who would like to know the answer (as you would) - and to check their answers against each other (they were seperate visits of course) to see if they matched. They did !

If you, or anyone else here, feels that any information which I have given in the best of faith will be misleading - then you must make up your own minds and take their chances. If they feel that there IS something printed somewhere which gives them the possibility of open ended repeated visits on VWP by the use of brief trips outside the USA and then re-entering, I wish them the very best of luck in doing so !

Print the passage out and produce it to the BCIS officer when next he stops you from re-entering and sends you switftly back (from wherever you came) on the next flight. See if he cares ?

Then we will see who was right - and who was wrong !

Meanwhile, it's a lovely Bank Holiday Monday, the sun is shining and there are better things to do than sit at this keyboard all day.

Enjoy your day !

Robert5988

30-08-2004, 15:03

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:It's important that we get the info right for both the people who were enquiring on this thread and also for future reference for anyone else.[/quote]

I second that!

We know what the original post in June said about retirement and we are all unanimous – including myself - that you cannot retire to USA as Annie would wish. Frankly explanations purporting to clarify what was meant in earlier comments about a 6 months stay are irrelevant and seems to add nothing to the current discussion – which has migrated from the original posed question.

The thread was dormant until FloridaPete resurrected it on 25 Aug. I then floated the issue of aggregate stays under VWS exceeding 6 months. After Floridapete’s assertion that it was 180 days, Blott and myself asked for the official source to back that statement.(to which he has yet to reply – and I suspect he will be unable to provide that information)

The posted Consulate extract gave an official position on length and number of visits under the VWS - [u]basically no restrictions provided you met all the conditions</u>. Therefore the thread had moved from the original posed question and the only ‘exam question’ was now about official sources of information on the VWS that throw light on Floridapete’s assertion.

4 quotes from this thread:
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:factual points become merged with opinion and hearsay; which is not helpful to those for whom this discussion is very important.

Does anyone have any definitive information, as opposed to opinion

too often opinions and beliefs are expressed as authoritative statements

It's important that we get the info right for both the people who were enquiring on this thread and also for future reference for anyone else.
[/quote]

However we are still getting authoritative comments on the subject of VWS that are purely based on opinion. Viz:

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:You are not supposed to have a continuous stream of visa waivers with short gaps in between.

if you keep coming and going with reasonable sized gaps in between ( ie not two days in Mexico)

If you want to spend long periods here, you need a visa, at least a B2.

Leaving for a few days in Canada or the Carribean is risky,

I think you will find that Floridapete does it the right way and has a B2 visa
[/quote]

There is also no dispute that if you do not [u]fully</u> meet the conditions of the VWS you will have problems.

A constant theme, in countless threads on this forum, is advice that it is not possible to spend more than 6 months in the USA in a year without the appropriate Visa. On the face of it that advice may be have been wrong and we surely should get this right without any obfuscation.