View Full Version : Shamu Stadium Maintenance
Shamu Stadium is due to close early January for pool maintenance on the show pool, dine with Shamu will also be closed. It is due to reopen, hopefully, on April 7th. Whilst the show is closed there are plans for an "up close" experience were the dine with shamu is normally held.
Thanks for posting this, but is anybody buying the "for pool maintenance" line Sea World are using?!?!
Philomena
16-12-2013, 19:26
I thought they had done work in that area when it was closed after the accident? Think there must have been a drop in numbers since the documentary which unfortunately we missed as we were away when it was screened and we were out of time to see it on iPlayer when we got home.
Shame as it used to be my favourite park - never liked Busch Gardens though. Thought the areas where they kept the animals were far too small.
FraserLynn
17-12-2013, 07:57
Uhm, I have just watched Blackfish... Having seen this, I can't bring myself to ever visit (and therefore support) Seaworld again. Whilst, at the back of your head, everyone must know that keeping these amazing creatures in captivity is wrong, it shows just how wrong and dangerous this is for both the animals and the trainers. It is clear that commercial pressures are more important than the animals and indeed the health of the team who work there.
It is a shame because Seaworld has always been my favourite park, but anyone with a conscience can't watch this film and decide to visit anyway. Apparently they have had a whole load of acts pull out of their Barbecue season in protest now as well.
I wonder if this is the start of the end?
There is plenty more to see and do in Orlando besides Seaworld.....we have not had time to visit SW in the last 6 years with so many other things to do. :)
FraserLynn
17-12-2013, 10:00
I agree, masses more to do than just seaworld, I meant the start of the end for seaworld not Orlando. although if the film had the same impact on others that it did on me, it means that seaworld, aquatica, discovery cove and Busch gardens are all now off the list. I sort of wish I never watched it~ ignorance can sometimes be bliss
I've just watched & re-watched "Blackfish" & then a few of the "Frozen Planet" eposodes. Watching killer whales 'playing' with seals & penguins puts into perspective just what they are capable of in the wild.
IMHO, all large carnivores need to be treated with respect & kept at arms length (at least). Sea World seem to have tried to demonstrate the sheer size & power of the whales, presenting them as having an almost 'cuddly' personae whilst they are actually hunter-killers....
Not at all suprised that deaths have occured - many lion & tiger trainers have gone the same way. The males of many species are known to be occasionally very aggressive.
Unfortunately, rightly or wrongly, the only way that the average person is ever going to see a live carnivore is in captivity....
I sincerely hope that Sea World can find a solution whereby folk can still appreciate these animals, the recent shows where the whales 'performed' without human intervention might be a step in the right direction ???
Again, in my opinion, it would be a great loss if Sea World were forced to end it's conservation (thinking especially of turtle & manatee work) due to falling attendance.
freddiehollie
17-12-2013, 17:04
Could it be why Universal closed the Jaws ride???
A lovely creature like a Great White trapped in such a small area.....
floridadreamvilla.co.uk
17-12-2013, 17:28
You've obviously got a similar sense of humour to me. Love it!
could it be why universal closed the jaws ride???
A lovely creature like a great white trapped in such a small area.....
Philomena
17-12-2013, 18:23
We did a behind the scenes tour a couple of years ago where they show you round their 'hospital' area and you could not fail to be impressed by all the good work they do treating and releasing back into the ocean lots of injured turtles, manatees, etc. I suppose all this work has to be paid for somehow, but think the killer whale shows may have to go! They need the public on side to be able to keep assisting those creatures in need. I am sure they are listening.
Could it be why Universal closed the Jaws ride???
A lovely creature like a Great White trapped in such a small area.....
I think protesters were upset that it was burned every show.
:D
If Sea World were to stop the whale show, then it would be the dolphin shown, then the seal show. What would happen to all these animals? you cannot just release captive animals into the wild. The majority of the whales were captive bred and those that weren't have been in captivity too long to be released back into the wild.
FraserLynn
17-12-2013, 20:13
I think the favoured solution is what they call sea pens. huge yet secure pens that are in the ocean and give them the opportunity to live in their natural habitat, with proper currents and environment. I once swam with some dolphins in Israel that were kept in this environment with an open door to the ocean and the space was huge, can not be compared in anyway to the little pools at seaworld. The dolphins were free to come and go as they pleased as the door to the ocean was open, but they stayed because they were fed.
They had complete free choice about where the went, how much space they had away from the other dolphins etc, which according to the film is one of the main issues, Tilly was kept originally in a tiny pool (in Canada) with 2 females who dominated him and attacked him constantly. Males also need some space to let off their aggression and in the wild they live in family units, the children stay with their mothers for life, in captivity these units are broken up and the impact is huge apparently!! Not that I know what I am talking about, this was just from the film.
One of the quotes that really stuck with me was it is like keeping a human in a bath tub for 25 years and then being surprised that they are psychotic!
DisneyFunVilla
18-12-2013, 13:03
We did a behind the scenes tour a couple of years ago where they show you round their 'hospital' area and you could not fail to be impressed by all the good work they do treating and releasing back into the ocean lots of injured turtles, manatees, etc. I suppose all this work has to be paid for somehow, but think the killer whale shows may have to go! They need the public on side to be able to keep assisting those creatures in need. I am sure they are listening.
Did any of that behind the scenes hospital area good work stuff make it into Blackfish or was it simply a slam SeaWorld thing?
FraserLynn
18-12-2013, 13:58
Nope, there was none of that covered in the film, seaworld declined to take part.
I guess that is a tough one though as seaworld is a commercial for profit enterprise with share holders and investors and not a charity so any of this work that they do, they must consider brings a commercial benefit through positive PR or else they wouldn't be doing it.
freddiehollie
18-12-2013, 15:13
[QUOTE=Tony G;713792]I think protesters were upset that it was burned every show.
Tony G....
That makes a lot of sense..... Especially when you add the global warming into the mix, caused by the flames ;-);-)
Philomena
18-12-2013, 18:29
Did any of that behind the scenes hospital area good work stuff make it into Blackfish or was it simply a slam SeaWorld thing?
Don't know as I did not manage to see Blackfish!
DLB-GOUROCK
18-12-2013, 20:08
An interesting counterpoint ...
http://behindthethrills.com/2013/12/bands-cancelling-out-on-obligations-with-seaworld-due-to-blackfish-backlash/
Did any of that behind the scenes hospital area good work stuff make it into Blackfish or was it simply a slam SeaWorld thing?
Course not Blackfish is a very biased one sided view with no intention of trying to put a balanced view.
I agree with Jill here - just chasing a sensational and one sided story and played on peoples emotional response to animals.
FraserLynn
18-12-2013, 22:02
An interesting counterpoint ...
http://behindthethrills.com/2013/12/bands-cancelling-out-on-obligations-with-seaworld-due-to-blackfish-backlash/
An interesting and different perspective that I found pretty compelling right up to the point that they start saying that Petra were shareholders to "pull a profit". They have publicly stated that they have bought enough stock so that they are able to attend things like the AGM etc. I think it is a little rich to say that they are doing this to try and make money from it...If this was the case they why would they be campaigning against the practises at seaworld and trying to get people not to visit the park? I also think the strange "facebook" research is a bit tenious at best. Somewhat casts a shadow over the credibility of the whole article for me.
It really is a tough one, on the one hand I get all the stuff about how Seaworld educates through entertainment and uses its resources to help save animals, on the other hand the film creates a really compelling story through the narrative of Seaworld trainers and the people who originally captured Tilly that is hard to watch and still think that what Seaworld does it right. Seeing grown men in tears recalling the suffering that they had put these animals through for our entertainment is hard for me to ignore.
As I said before, I sort of wish I hadn't watched it as it is now impossible for to get any pleasure out of watching the Orca and Dolphin shows knowing just how much misery and death it takes to bring this "entertainment" to the audience.. We are back in Orlando in March and thankfully there are plenty of other things to do..
FraserLynn
18-12-2013, 22:10
I agree with Jill here - just chasing a sensational and one sided story and played on peoples emotional response to animals.
Not sure I can agree with you here, I thought it tried to just present the facts through the narrative of the experts. I guess it is one sided in so much as Seaworld declined to be involved, but otherwise I thought it was a high quality documentary. I understand that it has been nominated for an Oscar which suggests that it is considered a very credible film.
The facts are I guess the facts, Tilly was captured at 2 and taken from his mother, he did live in a tiny park in Canada, he has killed three people whilst he has been kept in captivity (no one has ever been killed by an Orca in the wild), he was dominated by the two female Orcas he was forced to share a very small tank with, Orcas in the wild do cover hundreds of miles and live in tight family groups, calfs do stay with their mothers for life etc etc.
Which parts did you find sensational?
I found that using the deatils from the death of Dawn Branchau - which was quite fresh in the minds of viewers, just "going for broke" and sensational...without the details it would probably have been a reasonable documentary and perhs not have attracted the attention it did. As I said before Seaworld is just small entry in a long list of things to do in Central Florida.
Not sure I can agree with you here, I thought it tried to just present the facts through the narrative of the experts. I guess it is one sided in so much as Seaworld declined to be involved, but otherwise I thought it was a high quality documentary. I understand that it has been nominated for an Oscar which suggests that it is considered a very credible film.
The facts are I guess the facts, Tilly was captured at 2 and taken from his mother, he did live in a tiny park in Canada, he has killed three people whilst he has been kept in captivity (no one has ever been killed by an Orca in the wild), he was dominated by the two female Orcas he was forced to share a very small tank with, Orcas in the wild do cover hundreds of miles and live in tight family groups, calfs do stay with their mothers for life etc etc.
Which parts did you find sensational?
That is exactly what they are hoping for from the general public but as already stated our son is a marine biologist and has been alongside SeaWorld with their research and helping rescue and rehabilitate sick and stranded animals so we have more idea than some as to just how much SeaWorld does and how much it costs them. How much footage was given to all those they rescue and restore to full health and release back in the wild again and only those that would not be able to go back to their natural habitat are given permanent homes. Perhaps if more of this was included it would have given a more balanced view for people to weigh up the pros and cons.
I agree with Carol regarding her comments on Dawn's death and if it was such a well balance documentary the it should not have been necessary to use it.
Being nominated for an Oscar does not make the content credible it, to me just that it was made to a certain standard. Quite frankly anything Peta are behind cannot be taken seriously when a few years back they were trying to get fish fingers rebranded as sea kittens to try and discourage children from eating fish by portraying them as cute and cuddly!
FraserLynn
19-12-2013, 09:57
That is exactly what they are hoping for from the general public but as already stated our son is a marine biologist and has been alongside SeaWorld with their research and helping rescue and rehabilitate sick and stranded animals so we have more idea than some as to just how much SeaWorld does and how much it costs them. How much footage was given to all those they rescue and restore to full health and release back in the wild again and only those that would not be able to go back to their natural habitat are given permanent homes. Perhaps if more of this was included it would have given a more balanced view for people to weigh up the pros and cons.
I agree with Carol regarding her comments on Dawn's death and if it was such a well balance documentary the it should not have been necessary to use it.
Being nominated for an Oscar does not make the content credible it, to me just that it was made to a certain standard. Quite frankly anything Peta are behind cannot be taken seriously when a few years back they were trying to get fish fingers rebranded as sea kittens to try and discourage children from eating fish by portraying them as cute and cuddly!
It is funny how two people can watch the same film and come away with valid, but completely different perspectives... at the very least the film is doing it's job in raising the debate about the issue.
IMHO, ultimately though Seaworld is not a charity or a not for profit, it is a for profit business so any and all of the rescue work they do will have to be justified through the positive PR they hope to get from it, otherwise they are failing their shareholders. My view (now) is that they have to do this to justify keeping these creatures in captivity for entertainment and profit purposes as this is at the very core of their business model. The rescue work justifies this. When I say this I don't mean the people who work there doing this work, I am sure that they are really committed, hard working and care deeply about the animals that they I working with, I mean the people who pull the strings and allow this to happen.
Like any argument there are two distinct sides, I think Peta are of course pushing their agenda, that's what they are supposed to do.
I thought they handled Dawn's death very sympathetically, their suggestion was that Seaworld were sort of trying to blame Dawn and certainly did in court (it was because of the pony tail) but offered some other compelling insights into what may have happened. The amazing thing is that Seaworld are constantly pushing to get the trainers back into the water, despite the clear dangers. They can only be doing this because they thing it makes for a better, more sensational show, which means more ticket and merchandise sales. I guess that they would say that putting the trainers lives in danger gives them more money to spend on rescue work.
An interesting counterpoint ...
http://behindthethrills.com/2013/12/bands-cancelling-out-on-obligations-with-seaworld-due-to-blackfish-backlash/
This is more like it. This puts thinks in a much more realistic light. I love Sea World it is my favourite place and I think they do excellent work. I will continue to visit whenever I can. I believe that wild animals belong in the wild, but Sea World as it is now, does not take animals from the wild unless they are injured.
FraserLynn
19-12-2013, 11:30
This is more like it. This puts thinks in a much more realistic light. I love Sea World it is my favourite place and I think they do excellent work. I will continue to visit whenever I can. I believe that wild animals belong in the wild, but Sea World as it is now, does not take animals from the wild unless they are injured.
I think it is a bit much to say that this puts things in a more realistic light. I think it offers a different view, which is of course as valid and clearly is closer to your beliefs (which are equally as valid and I shared before seeing the film) but it should be noted that they are unlikely to be unbiased since it is a website (a poorly written one in my view) that exists because of the theme parks. It is the view of the (unqualified??) writer where as the film portrayed the view of a number of past trainers and field experts.
I do struggle a bit with the logic that it is OK because Seaworld no longer take animals from the wild. They breed these animals in captivity knowing that they will have a relatively poor existence (compared to the ones in the wild) for commercial benefit, the Orcas are worth millions to them and they are perpetuating the misery. Perhaps if they stopped breeding these animals and committed all of their profits to their research and rescue arm then it would be possible to see them as altruistic. In the current set up it is impossible to ignore (IMHO) that everything they do is calculated to make maximum profit for the shareholders which is their right and dare I say responsibility as a listed company.
I share the view that this is an unfortunate truth, I too loved the time I spent at Seaworld and as I said early on enjoyed my own blissful ignorance.
DLB-GOUROCK
19-12-2013, 20:48
Today ... http://www.mynews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/on-the-town/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2013/12/19/seaworld_caring_for_.html
SeaWorld caring for manatee rescued near Jacksonville.
Don't you think that this discussion has run its course. We all have differing opinions and this just seems to going on and on regurgitating the same old facts. It is getting a bit boring. We are all old enough to make up,our own minds as to whether we want to visit Seaworld or not.
Andrena
You are quite right Andrena - it's run it's course