View Full Version : Tipping
I have been holidaying in the US for about 10 years now and one of the things that most impressed me has been the quality of service everywhere and when dining in particular. I am well aware of the 15 to 20% tipping guide and in general have followed this as a genuine respect for the quality of service and have always regarded it as part of the meal price that was optional should the service standards not been there.
However on my recent trip 2 things have stood out.
1. I was told by some english who claimed they were regulars as villa owners that these levels of tipping were rare and were certainly never matched by Americans. Basicaly just a tourist con. I don't go along with this and wondered what some of you think on the subject?
2. I was dismayed by what seemed a sudden increase of receiving a bill with the words "18% gratuity not included" "Sara :>)" or along those lines or bills with suggested tips printed on the bottom already calculated based on the size of the bill. This did miff me a bit and those places were not visited again and one of them was at the Outback and I love there. I even felt in some places the service dipped because we were English with a sudden change in attitude after we had paid with a tip.
I have to say we were staying on Marco Island and the eateries were quite quiet, never before have we been able to walk in and sit down without a wait at the Cheesecake Factory. I feel like going back next year wearing a T shirt with the words "yes we are English but we still tip for good service" printed on the front.
The American's that we go out with in USA always leave more than 15% and yet when American visitors visit our restaurant in UK most of them leaving absolutely nothing!! It never ceases to amaze me. (We do offer good service!!![msnwink])
steph_goodrum
05-08-2011, 22:37
It doesn't iritate me when they say things like "18% gratuity not included" , it's when they say "18% Gratuity included " which really bugs me. if it's mandatory at a set rate then it is a service charge and should be called as such. A gratuity is something that is given freely and discretionary.
sammibabe
05-08-2011, 22:48
When I was out with some girlfriends we were a group of 8 so they added a 'tip' (can't remember how much but it was a lot because I remember being shocked) but in the small print somewhere that it was discretionary so we got the waitress to take it off. To say they were hacked off is an understatement but so were we!! A tip should be left freely and not demanded or even asked for
This is something I feel quite strongly about! I feel tipping should be on merit and not because it is expected! If the gratuity is added to the bill I tell them to remove it as I think that this is a cheek!!!! However if I receive good service I have no problem with giving a. Good tip! And yes I have noticed on many occasions that American diners do not leave the same tip as uk diners do!!! I even heard two waitresses chatting about tips they had received from British visitors and how good they were compared to Americans!! And before I get off my high horse one more thing! A normal spend for us in say the outback is $ 150 if we leave 20% that is $30 if a waiter serves ten tables a day that is $300 dollars tips before they even get paid!!! If my husband earned that I could afford my dream home in Florida!!!
This is something I feel quite strongly about! I feel tipping should be on merit and not because it is expected! If the gratuity is added to the bill I tell them to remove it as I think that this is a cheek!!!! However if I receive good service I have no problem with giving a. Good tip! And yes I have noticed on many occasions that American diners do not leave the same tip as uk diners do!!! I even heard two waitresses chatting about tips they had received from British visitors and how good they were compared to Americans!! And before I get off my high horse one more thing! A normal spend for us in say the outback is $ 150 if we leave 20% that is $30 if a waiter serves ten tables a day that is $300 dollars tips before they even get paid!!! If my husband earned that I could afford my dream home in Florida!!!
You think you will let your husband know about that dreamhouse you bought from his money? :)
(Just kidding ofcourse.)
We we go to frankie & bennys in the Uk and we pay with our card we get the chance to pay a tip but i always click no and i give the tip direct to who ever served us, only because i choose how much i pay, i think if i HAVE to pay what is expected then we could not afford to eat out all the time, i think its cheek to expect to pay up to 18% more in the US.
Saying that when we went last time our first stop was Disney dinning with winnie the poo & friends at that time we had just arrived and hubby just didnt feel himself and didn't want much to eat & wanted to go, we had been there a while but our daughter was waiting for Eeyore to take his turn to come to our table the waitress came over and asked why my hubby wasn't eating we said he didnt feel too good and we were waiting for Eeyore even though we had finished eating. She said we had to go because others were waiting for our table and Eeyore isn't due to our table for another half hour or so. I asked for the bill & i remember for four of us being $108!! i gave her $120 not expecting her to keep it! she thought it was a tip, my face was a picture as you can imagine, BUT within two minutes Eeyore was by our table & we were having photos with him, much to our daughters delight. :)
LiesaAnna
06-08-2011, 10:28
going to keep a better eye on this next trip as there will be just 3 of us, we never mnd tipping well at shake and steak cos they remember us and always treat us well and make pleasant conversation so they do a good job and get a good tip... hate leving a tip in IHOP i think the place is dirty and staff cant be bothered with anything... we ate at TGI's one particular trip and a lovely girl served us and she has a nice baby bump, she was lovely and couldnt do enough for us, felt bit mean cos she was running around after us, but we tipped her well cos she did a really good job and earnt it, wish we had seen her again... we have met some lovely waiting staff and those stick in our minds at times... but i think they dont bother with the friendliness cos its included in the bill anyway so they dont need to try nor impress us with speedy friendly service.... good topic
No Shoes
06-08-2011, 10:41
I have been sat here reading the comments and deciding whether to reply.
I understand how you can feel that 18% or thereabouts is a huge amount but in a lot of cases the wait staff do not get any/much in wages. There are get out clauses in the minimum wage legislation that allows restaurants to barely pay these people so the tips are important.
I do think that the fundemental difference is how wait staff are viewed on the opposite sides of the Atlantic. In the US many people choose it as a job because they can make a very good living. They aspire to the better restaurants as a career move. A waiter/waitress in somewhere like Jiko can make over $600 in an evening.
In the UK we tend to see it as a stop gap. There is still a 'service' type attitude towards it.
Personally I think a good waiter/waitress can make our break your whole experience.
No shoes - you have hit the nail on the head. In the UK waiting on tables is generally not a choice of a career and 'service' in general is poor. In the US 'service' is viewed totally differently and as you say something to aspire to and restaurant wages are surprisingly low so the 'tips' really are part of true wage.
Sorry should ave said!!! Of course I would let my husband visit the dream home also!!! Lol!!!
Just to add to the thread! Up until the last two visits we have always tipped mostly 15-20% and a lot of times we have not had the service that merits it! But have felt that this is what you have to do! ie- the whole low wage and taxed on tip thing! But recently money is tight for everyone and although there has been very few times when I have refused to leave a tip I now base what I leave on the service I receive!!
Having read some of the comments I just want to make it clear that I am happy to reward good service with tips at the expected level. When you add it to the cost of the meal it still makes good value compared to eating out in the UK. I just wanted to know where other people stood on this. What I did feel this year was that in a small number of times the service was not as good and I felt we were pre judged. The uplift in attitude was remarkable after we paid. This was only a couple of times but was something not noticed before. Perhaps we would benefit from eating in the same place each night but we do like a variety
sunseeker
06-08-2011, 12:30
I tip here in the UK as well as the USA. I do it only if the person that has provided the service has the right attitude and does a good job. I don't tip to make up somebodys wages because their boss is too tight to pay a decent wage. Slow surly staff get nothing.
Dave
I don't tip to make up somebodys wages because their boss is too tight to pay a decent wage.
Dave
I think if the wage structure of a whole industry is structured in such a fashion, it is harsh to lay your criticism at the feet of the boss. While you may agree or disagree with the business model of the industry, it is what it is and I don't think it adds anything to the discussion here.
Personally we will generally tip at about the 18% maybe slightly more or slightly less given the service. Generally the level of service is very good. If we do have an issue with the service and we decide that we will leave a poor tip or none at all, however, we will discuss this with a manager - we do not want them to think that we are simply not tipping as we are foreign tourists - we want them to know that we are dissatisfied.
I have been reading this thread with interest. One question - when calculating the percentage tip, do you base this on the total before or after the sales tax is added?
I was told by an American that you should base it on the pre tax total but I noticed this year that one bill had printed tip totals based on my actual bill at 15 18 and 20% and these were based on total inc tax
steph_goodrum
06-08-2011, 16:45
I have been sat here reading the comments and deciding whether to reply.
I understand how you can feel that 18% or thereabouts is a huge amount but in a lot of cases the wait staff do not get any/much in wages. There are get out clauses in the minimum wage legislation that allows restaurants to barely pay these people so the tips are important.
I do think that the fundemental difference is how wait staff are viewed on the opposite sides of the Atlantic. In the US many people choose it as a job because they can make a very good living. They aspire to the better restaurants as a career move. A waiter/waitress in somewhere like Jiko can make over $600 in an evening.
In the UK we tend to see it as a stop gap. There is still a 'service' type attitude towards it.
Personally I think a good waiter/waitress can make our break your whole experience.
Sorry but that's not my problem, unless the Unions or whatever get together and ensure they are paid better wages I don't see why I should fell sorry for them on that account. prices would have to raise but at the end of the day a waiter in a small restaurant could do a 12 hour shift and only serve 4 people. Not his fault if the customers aren't coming in but he will still have to be there for 12 hours and should be paid a proper wage for the time on duty. If they give good service they can then probably expect a decent tip on top not to make up their wages.
You say its not your problem and that's fair enough but at the end of the day we are in their country and if thats the way they do things then maybe we should do things their way while we are there. After all we are there by choice.
The way I see it is the menu price is from 80% of the cost with up to 20% variable dependant on quality of service. Rather than the menu price being 20% higher with no incentive to the server to give good service.
I know its not the way we do things in the UK but when in Rome and all that. My main reason for starting this thread is to see if people resented tipping in the USA with money being tight these days because I felt on some occasions this year that being English was not greeted with the same friendliness as previous years. Only in a small minority but there none the less.
steph_goodrum
06-08-2011, 18:44
You say its not your problem and that's fair enough but at the end of the day we are in their country and if thats the way they do things then maybe we should do things their way while we are there. After all we are there by choice.
The way I see it is the menu price is from 80% of the cost with up to 20% variable dependant on quality of service. Rather than the menu price being 20% higher with no incentive to the server to give good service.
I know its not the way we do things in the UK but when in Rome and all that. My main reason for starting this thread is to see if people resented tipping in the USA with money being tight these days because I felt on some occasions this year that being English was not greeted with the same friendliness as previous years. Only in a small minority but there none the less.
I didn't say I didn't tip good service but I should not feel obliged to give a tip regardless of service because of the poor wages they are paid. You could have the best waiter in the world but if the food isnt up to scratch because the food is no good then people will obviously lower the tip as it doesnt reflect just the work of one person
Perhaps it needs to go back even further, when I was younger I was told to do things (especially when it came to things like jobs etc to the best of my ability at all times. If youu are being paid to do a job then that should automatically mean you give it 100% not need an extra reward to do what you are being paid for already..
Could not agree more with you about giving 100% in your job and as an ex manager I wish everyone felt the same but sadly they don't. I do feel when eating out in the UK the service in general is excellent and feels genuine because the tipping levels are lower where in the USA it sometimes feels you are buying their friendliness
I also agree you should not feel obliged to tip poor service. I believe if you get poor service and as a result don't tip most americans would respect that. However I also know some people who don't tip whatever the service and have bragged to me that they can eat out for 20% less than me without any regrets.
sunseeker
06-08-2011, 20:16
I think if the wage structure of a whole industry is structured in such a fashion, it is harsh to lay your criticism at the feet of the boss. While you may agree or disagree with the business model of the industry, it is what it is and I don't think it adds anything to the discussion here.
Personally we will generally tip at about the 18% maybe slightly more or slightly less given the service. Generally the level of service is very good. If we do have an issue with the service and we decide that we will leave a poor tip or none at all, however, we will discuss this with a manager - we do not want them to think that we are simply not tipping as we are foreign tourists - we want them to know that we are dissatisfied.
Your post has more or less mirrored my own! I'm not sure what your point is if you do as i do and leave very little or no tip at all for poor service.. If you feel that the waiting staff should be subsidised by the paying public then why not leave 18 to 20% every time.
Dave
I have been sat here reading the comments and deciding whether to reply.
I understand how you can feel that 18% or thereabouts is a huge amount but in a lot of cases the wait staff do not get any/much in wages. There are get out clauses in the minimum wage legislation that allows restaurants to barely pay these people so the tips are important.
I do think that the fundemental difference is how wait staff are viewed on the opposite sides of the Atlantic. In the US many people choose it as a job because they can make a very good living. They aspire to the better restaurants as a career move. A waiter/waitress in somewhere like Jiko can make over $600 in an evening.
In the UK we tend to see it as a stop gap. There is still a 'service' type attitude towards it.
Personally I think a good waiter/waitress can make our break your whole experience.
We always tip for good service, however I refuse to feel obliged to tip becauce the salaries are poor, that is between the waiters and the employers and nothing to do with me. If I receive bad service I would not leave a tip, however I woul give the restaurant the benefit of the doubt and return on a 2nd occasion, if the service was again poor I would not return.
I agree with Lyn, we tip the usual amount, except when a bill says that a gratuity has been included. In that case I do not feel obliged to leave any extra. Our American friends do this also. I also never add the tip to the credit card tab, I leave it separately. If they pool their tips then that is OK, but if not then I have only tipped the person who gave me the service. I am always wary that the staff do not get the tips which are included on the credit card - they may do, but I prefer to do it separately.
Andrena
sammibabe
06-08-2011, 21:44
I agree with Lyn, we tip the usual amount, except when a bill says that a gratuity has been included. In that case I do not feel obliged to leave any extra. Our American friends do this also. I also never add the tip to the credit card tab, I leave it separately. If they pool their tips then that is OK, but if not then I have only tipped the person who gave me the service. I am always wary that the staff do not get the tips which are included on the credit card - they may do, but I prefer to do it separately.
Andrena
I agree, we always leave seperately. They may get it off the card, if I leave the cash I know they have.
I agree, we always leave seperately. They may get it off the card, if I leave the cash I know they have.
so at places like perkins or bob evans where they ask you to pay at the till do you give seperate to the server or at the till
sammibabe
06-08-2011, 22:49
so at places like perkins or bob evans where they ask you to pay at the till do you give seperate to the server or at the till
We have a tot up of our spend and leave it on the table; if there is an easier way of doing it I'd appreciate it!
I think if the wage structure of a whole industry is structured in such a fashion, it is harsh to lay your criticism at the feet of the boss. While you may agree or disagree with the business model of the industry, it is what it is and I don't think it adds anything to the discussion here.
Personally we will generally tip at about the 18% maybe slightly more or slightly less given the service. Generally the level of service is very good. If we do have an issue with the service and we decide that we will leave a poor tip or none at all, however, we will discuss this with a manager - we do not want them to think that we are simply not tipping as we are foreign tourists - we want them to know that we are dissatisfied.
Your post has more or less mirrored my own! I'm not sure what your point is if you do as i do and leave very little or no tip at all for poor service.. If you feel that the waiting staff should be subsidised by the paying public then why not leave 18 to 20% every time.
Dave
The two points that I was trying to make were:
1 - the business model of the industry is what it is; regardless of whither we agree with it or not; therefore I do not feel that it is necessarily just some nominal boss that it is too blame, it is the whole industry.
2 - I do agree with you not to feel obliged to tip for poor service, regardless of the financial model of the business. I think, however, it is far better to do so and also inform a restaurant manager so that it is not just assumed that you don't understand the etiquette of tipping. To just tip poorly or not at all could just perpetuate the image that tourists don't know how things are done, rather than conveying the message that you were dissatisfied with your service.
Katys Grandad
07-08-2011, 01:38
The way I see it is the menu price is from 80% of the cost with up to 20% variable dependant on quality of service. Rather than the menu price being 20% higher with no incentive to the server to give good service.
Or to put it another way, the menu price is based on poor service. If you want the wait staff to do their job properly then you're going to have to pay quite a bit more than that. It's a bit like saying, "our chef will make a lousy job of cooking your meal at that price but if you pay a bit more, he/she'll make it worth you coming in here".
I would have hoped that the 'incentive' would be professional pride and keeping your customers coming back and you in a job. Whichever way you cut it, it's them who are paying your wages.
I do tip fairly generously but it's mainly because I feel it's expected of me not because I've had something extra that I'm not actually entitled to. I suppose I'm part of the problem really because maybe I should be tipping (or not) on the quality of the service rather than on the implied obligation because I'm in a country with that culture.
As far as your point about people tipping less in this financial climate goes, I think we're all having to try that bit harder for the same or less these days if we want to stay in work. Wait staff haven't any right to be immune from that.
steph_goodrum
07-08-2011, 07:23
so at places like perkins or bob evans where they ask you to pay at the till do you give seperate to the server or at the till
If the wait staff are being attentive they should always be able to be found easily so we just give it to the person who has served us the most, that way you can also thank them personally which goes a long way to making the job more rewarding (I used to work in one albeit only Sats. when younger and remember that appreciation is always important), whether it is the Golden Corral or a higher price restaurant. The tax system doesnt help with the Employers being able to offset some of the "minimum wage" they pay (I think offhand it's something like 25/30% they can deduct as being made up with tips and the Employees get taxed as though they had earnt that much regarless of whether the Employer has a good enough set up to ensure that they do receive at least that much.
We were told by a waiter who worked at one of the chains that they get automatically taxed 8% of whatever bills they have dealt with. That means that if you don't leave a tip for whatever reason, they will be charged 8% of your bill in any case, so if you leave 10%, they will only receive 2%. That is why for the most part, service is pretty reasonable or they would be out of pocket. It sometimes is not the fault of the waiting staff if the food is poorly turned out, but they suffer the consequences. That is one of the reasons that they get paid a very low wage as they are expected to get income from the tips.
sunseeker
07-08-2011, 11:12
The two points that I was trying to make were:
1 - the business model of the industry is what it is; regardless of whither we agree with it or not; therefore I do not feel that it is necessarily just some nominal boss that it is too blame, it is the whole industry.
2 - I do agree with you not to feel obliged to tip for poor service, regardless of the financial model of the business. I think, however, it is far better to do so and also inform a restaurant manager so that it is not just assumed that you don't understand the etiquette of tipping. To just tip poorly or not at all could just perpetuate the image that tourists don't know how things are done, rather than conveying the message that you were dissatisfied with your service.
The point you are missing i feel, is, the tip is a GRATUITY and not an addition to the pay given. The owner of a restaurant is a human being and not a lemming. Regardless of what the business model is, surely each and every owner has a mind of his/her own. This idea of having to tip waiting staff 18% is a nonsense and ultimately reduces the owners expenses, how long will it be before an owner asks for staff to work on a tips only basis? surely a good idea, more profit for the owners, better service for the customer and the staff can pay their own taxes. Tips should only be based on what you feel the waiter/waitress deserves and not because you feel you should have to. As for speaking to management about poor service, it is not my job to tell a manager that his staff are underachieving and i couldn't give two hoots about what they think of me for not leaving a tip. The fact i didn't leave one should say enough.
Dave
steph_goodrum
07-08-2011, 11:59
Apparently the ultimate insult is to leave a one penny with the head facing up and that shows that you have not "forgotten" to leave a tip but that you didnt feel it merited one.
There are quite a lot of bartenders in USA who work for tips only and there are plenty of people who want a job as a bartender. It can be extremely lucrative in a popular bar.
We actually pay our waitresses and bar staff £8.50 per hour which is way above the minimum wage. They don't have to rely on tips but realise if they give good service, it is often rewarded - funnily enough not by our USA visitors[msnwink]
Sandra
steph_goodrum
07-08-2011, 15:54
There are quite a lot of bartenders in USA who work for tips only and there are plenty of people who want a job as a bartender. It can be extremely lucrative in a popular bar.
We actually pay our waitresses and bar staff £8.50 per hour which is way above the minimum wage. They don't have to rely on tips but realise if they give good service, it is often rewarded - funnily enough not by our USA visitors[msnwink]
Sandra
I think that is what should happen Sandra, if the Staff are paid a decent wage they have incentive to give good service all the time as they want to keep their job, and anything over and above is then a proper bonus and not making up a shortfall.
Albert the Frog
07-08-2011, 16:20
It's a bit swings and roundabouts this though isn't it-if the industry suddenly started to pay higher rates they would put their prices up so the nett effect to the customer would be nil
Personally I would prefer for places to put their prices up to cover a proper salary for staff and then I would feel as though any tip I gave was actually for good service rather than because it was expected.
At the end of the day i go to a restaurant for the food. Most times its overpriced for what they give you but unless they let me go to the kitchen to fetch it how else do i get it other than by server. Its an overhead they should factor in and not rely on the customer to fund it. If that then makes the menu price too much you will lose custom much as you would in any business. This business of "low rates of pay they rely on tips" is a crock as i have been to restaurants that do pay the servers excellent rates and they tell you not to tip but they are very busy places. I doubt that the server gets what you leave anyway and the owner takes a percentage before divvying up.
DisneyPrincess
07-08-2011, 19:41
I dont mind tipping at al when the service is good - but i feel irritated when the gratuity has already been added on 'for convenience' and the service/food is poor.
Generally though the service we have received in the past in the USA has been excellent - the only bad experience we have had in terms of service was in Perkins on I-Drive with a young male waiter. We left less than the recommended tip because he had been continually unhelpful during the meal - snapping at requests, banging plates down etc. He wasn't best impressed with the tip - in my opinion he was lucky to get anything!
florida4sun
08-08-2011, 11:11
Bazamor,
not in the USA, you need to understand the serviced based economy of the USA, it is historic and the reason why service is generally exceptional. In the USA if your are good at your job you can work up to premium restaurants and earn serious money. The service in the Uk is nowhere near the USAs standards. The reason being folks don't have to work for their wages, yet we are expected to tip their already full wage. Lets face it the job is not rocket science. The owner getting a percentage is wrong, they will pay a percentage to the Matre D as they should do a good job is haring the customers out and getting them prepared.
My Tipping Guide
poor service - wouldn't even get to the tipping stage, would change server before this happens.
average - 10%
Good - 15%
Excellent - whatever I feel.
florida4sun
08-08-2011, 11:12
What??? and end up with the shoddy service we have in the UK, no incentive to put some effort in at all.
Personally I would prefer for places to put their prices up to cover a proper salary for staff and then I would feel as though any tip I gave was actually for good service rather than because it was expected.
Katys Grandad
08-08-2011, 11:56
What??? and end up with the shoddy service we have in the UK, no incentive to put some effort in at all.
I think that's a good point - my very clear impression on my many visits to the US is that the quality of service is directly proportionate to the expectation of a monetary reward. Where there isn't a reward on offer, the service is much less impressive (such as on airlines and immigration/customs officials).
When I travel to Asia, I find the service to be superior to anywhere else in the world including the US (and many times more sincere) yet tips aren't generally expected - their incentive is the self-satisfaction of providing good service. It's rather sad that that attitude isn't widespread elsewhere.
sammibabe
08-08-2011, 15:01
I think that's a good point - my very clear impression on my many visits to the US is that the quality of service is directly proportionate to the expectation of a monetary reward. Where there isn't a reward on offer, the service is much less impressive (such as on airlines and immigration/customs officials).
When I travel to Asia, I find the service to be superior to anywhere else in the world including the US (and many times more sincere) yet tips aren't generally expected - their incentive is the self-satisfaction of providing good service. It's rather sad that that attitude isn't widespread elsewhere.
Well said KG, I have always tried to instill upon my children that you should do any job to the best of your ability in a polite and happy manner. They are a little young yet (not been working that long)to se whether I have succeeded. But I feel in this country particularly way too often it is do as liitle as possible and not always polite let alone happy. We did have a fantastic experience at Cafe Rouge in Exetera few months ago . The waitress was outstanding (checked often enough so that we were able to keep topped up with drinks but not so often we felt like telling her to leave us alone) and we left a tip. I don't usually in this country unless the service is outstanding hence I rarely leave a tip
What??? and end up with the shoddy service we have in the UK, no incentive to put some effort in at all.
Had not thought of it that way.
FraserLynn
08-08-2011, 22:55
Tipping in China is pretty much unheard of as people here think it is their job to provide good service. In some of the more western restaurants tipping has started to be accepted (in the other restaurants it is downright refused and ends up confusing the person you are trying to give it to). The difference in service between the 2.... I can't see anything at all.
I tip well whenever it is appropriate. I think good service deserves an award but I agree, the level of pressure sometimes is shocking. It is like dealing with a beggar or a salesman in America. I think that the risk here is that the mindset is moving from "I am giving a good experience and receiving a reward" to "it is my wages anyway because you all know I am paid low". The latter has no benefit to induce better service.
I don't know if it's just my perception but I find that the servers in restaurants that 'automatically' add a tip to my bill are not as attentive / friendly as those where there is no such system.
I do know that in most places where the tips are added, they are shared by all the staff (not just front of table) so those that actually prepare the food, not just servers, get a cut...
Which is the fairer system ????
Must admit that, if I enjoy a well prepared / cooked meal, I personally consider it's more down to the 'backroom boys' than the servers & I will add a 'gratuity' to the bill (if not automatic) in the hope that it gets shared !!
My son is a chef, he works very long hours and hard shifts and the kitchen staff do not get any tips! Occasionally he has had a customer request that a drink is put behind the bar for him! I think that the people in the back should also get a share ! However I still believe no matter what country you are in tipping should be at the customers discretion and nobody is automatically entitled to it! Can I also ask if anybody knows if the restaurants in Orlando apply a service charge to tables of certain numbers? Which i Also don't agree with! There is usually only four of us but this year there is Seven! Thought I'd better check! Thanks
Pauline
I'm not sure it will make things any clearer but I'm going to add a few comments.
......at the end of the day we are in their country and if thats the way they do things then maybe we should do things their way while we are there.
I have heard this point before and I fundamentally disagree with it. Sure we need to observe their laws and general behaviour patterns but we don't need to adopt their world views because we go there on holiday - heaven forbid.
We were told by a waiter who worked at one of the chains that they get automatically taxed 8% of whatever bills they have dealt with. That means that if you don't leave a tip for whatever reason, they will be charged 8% of your bill in any case, so if you leave 10%, they will only receive 2%.
If this is true (and I have no reason to doubt it) then this is surely a flaw in the tax system in Florida or the US in general. It's a bit much, and more than a little presumptuous to expect foreign visitors to calculate tips on this basis.
I also want to challenge the oft-stated position that service in Florida restaurants is generally better than that in british restaurants. This is absolutley not my experience.
Finally I would say that 10%, 15% even 18% is not considered a good tip. In my experience, they are looking for thirty, forty, even fifty percent.
Can I also ask if anybody knows if the restaurants in Orlando apply a service charge to tables of certain numbers? Which i Also don't agree with! There is usually only four of us but this year there is Seven! Thought I'd better check! Thanks
Pauline
Most restaurants do. The size of the party varies from place to place but, if I'm absolutley honest, I don't have a problem with this as long as it's stated clearly on the menu or on signs on the wall.
Finally I would say that 10%, 15% even 18% is not considered a good tip. In my experience, they are looking for thirty, forty, even fifty percent.
Really! I'm in Florida at least 2 months of the year and eat out most of the time. My wife has a very unusual allergy which means that we often speak at some length with both the server and chef.
If we have received good service and helpful advice I will leave around 25% as a tip. On many occasions the server has made a point of saying thank you as we were leaving the restaurant. If they were really expecting over 30% I don't think this would happen.
I should also add that we have travelled to most of the U.S. states and never found that servers expected more than 20%. A tip higher than this is most times acknowledged in some way. Also many restaurants now show the tip value for 15%, 18% and 20% printed on the bottom.
I'm not saying that your server would not be grateful for a 30% to 50% tip, but expected, I would think not.
Regards Dave
My son is a chef, he works very long hours and hard shifts and the kitchen staff do not get any tips! Occasionally he has had a customer request that a drink is put behind the bar for him! I think that the people in the back should also get a share ! However I still believe no matter what country you are in tipping should be at the customers discretion and nobody is automatically entitled to it! Can I also ask if anybody knows if the restaurants in Orlando apply a service charge to tables of certain numbers? Which i Also don't agree with! There is usually only four of us but this year there is Seven! Thought I'd better check! Thanks
Pauline
We have just come back and from memory party size in relation to tipping was mentioned in all menus. Size varied between 6 and 8 people and tip varied between 15 and 20%
sammibabe
09-08-2011, 18:14
I also want to challenge the oft-stated position that service in Florida restaurants is generally better than that in british restaurants. This is absolutley not my experience.
Finally I would say that 10%, 15% even 18% is not considered a good tip. In my experience, they are looking for thirty, forty, even fifty percent.
We have had more good experiences in Florida compared to here, but not to say we have had no good ones here. Also not necessarily bad experiences just mediocre service.
Never felt we undertip and we have a handful of restuarants that we use a few times in any one trip (and often see the same server). In these places we are greeted in a cheerful and friendly manner and receive good service which is why we return. I can assure you we never tip at those percentages; couldn't afford to even if we wanted to.
LiesaAnna
09-08-2011, 19:35
i do think sometimes this whole tipping business gets out of hand... good service nice tip.. lousy service no tip....
Hi,
I had a look at this a few years ago in Kissimmee as it was on a wall in a shop I went into for vertiacl blind fittings. Therefore, the rates may now be out of date but I will use it as a way of example.
It stated the normally hour rate was $7.50/hr for general workers i.e not just in restuarants.
For people who working in restuarants, serving, the minimum hourly rate was $2.50. It went on to say that this was because there was oppotuntities for these people to make tips. It also stated that if the tips do not reach the normal $7.50/hr then their employer in duty bound to make up the difference from $2.50 up to $7.50.
As someone above has aready mentioned somebody serving say just 4 tables in an hour each with a spend of £50 equals $200 and with 18% tip for each that would be tip of $36.
Why should we tip so much??
What do you think ?
florida4sun
22-08-2011, 13:33
Simple they do not get the whole amount, they are taxed on it and it also gets split between staff. You do not have to tip anything, it is totally up to you. If you don't tip, don't good service next time you visit. The whole situation requires an understanding of the economics of who the USA as service based economy has always worked. Comparing it to what we do in the UK is wrong.
As I said, it is each to their own. I tip and tip based on the experience, which in the USA is typically far superior than in the Uk and most of Europe.
That said would everyone be if device was built into the price and they just whack 18% on everything? Thus losing the choice on what you tip?
SteveandJan
22-08-2011, 14:55
Reading this very interesting post, many restaurants that we visited had the tips worked out, 15%, 18% and 20% on the bottom but it was always on the whole bill i.e. with sales tax so if you do pay the 18% on the whole bill, it works out slightly more in real terms because it was worked out with sales tax. Hope that's clear.
The tipping requirement is the one thing I hate in American and I must say we still tip what we feel the service and quality warrants, good food and service good tip, lousy food and service small or no tip.
Val
Katys Grandad
24-08-2011, 09:10
I have read a couple of articles recently that suggest that many US restaurant owners are really struggling in these difficult economic times and are freezing or often reducing staff wages in order to stay in business. That has caused a lot of wait staff to become more proactive in ensuring decent tips. I've noticed that the practice of writing "gratuity not included" is becoming more common and I hope it's not limited to UK visitors.
I I've noticed that the practice of writing "gratuity not included" is becoming more common and I hope it's not limited to UK visitors.
That was exactly my thoughts that prompted me starting this thread.
Katys Grandad
24-08-2011, 10:08
That was exactly my thoughts that prompted me starting this thread.
Yes I know - was it at the Cheesecake factory in Naples because that's 1 of the places it happened to me for the first time a few weeks ago? I also had the same note at an Outback in Fort Myers.
steph_goodrum
24-08-2011, 11:57
I'm quite happy when they write Gratuity not included because then I can use my discretion and tip according to service etc. It's when they write 18% gratuity included which bugs me because if it isnt discretionary/voluntary then it is a service charge and should be called such.
I'm quite happy when they write Gratuity not included because then I can use my discretion and tip according to service etc. It's when they write 18% gratuity included which bugs me because if it isnt discretionary/voluntary then it is a service charge and should be called such.
Except you can ask them to remove that. Unless there is something in the menu like 18% charge for groups of over 6 (although I've never understood why that happens - surely it means the restaurant is getting more business and a bigger bill should mean a bigger tip by default).
florida4sun
24-08-2011, 14:59
When Gratuity is automatically added, it is not compulsory you can have it removed.
I'm a bit lost! Please can someone explain? This year there will be seven of us, I have asked before and op's have said that I will be charged a service charge because of the size of the party? Am I going t be charged 20% more every time we go to eat? Is it compulsory or can I have it removed and am I also expected to tip on top of this??? I don't agree with this for obvious reasons but would have to split the group to avoid it as it would make eating out too expensive !!!
Pauline
florida4sun
24-08-2011, 16:58
A lot of places have always automativly added the tip for parties of 6-8 or more, it is still discretionary and you can adjust it, more or less.
I'm a bit lost! Please can someone explain? This year there will be seven of us, I have asked before and op's have said that I will be charged a service charge because of the size of the party? Am I going t be charged 20% more every time we go to eat? Is it compulsory or can I have it removed and am I also expected to tip on top of this??? I don't agree with this for obvious reasons but would have to split the group to avoid it as it would make eating out too expensive !!!
Pauline
Dads_Taxi
24-08-2011, 19:03
Pauline, I'm with you on this. Our next trip will see 10 of us on holiday together, and if restaurants think that justifies an automatic 20% addition then we will automatically become two groups of 5 and out of sheer annoyance will tip less than we would have done.
Yes I know - was it at the Cheesecake factory in Naples because that's 1 of the places it happened to me for the first time a few weeks ago? I also had the same note at an Outback in Fort Myers.
Spot on, first it was at the Outback in Naples and then twice in the Cheescake Factory in Naples. You do get around a bit don't you. I am Jealous