Partnerships & Visas

[scotti]

I am a chartered surveyor who has been self employed for 10 years or so; I am also involved in a partnership which deals with all property related matters but it is only just over a year old and has a minimal turnover because of its age, probably around the £60k mark albeit there would be someone to remain in this country to continue the business if the L1 route is an option.

My partner in crime (lets call him Pete) has his own small construction company that has been running for years and again, could continue running in his absence.

Because of our respective skills we would like to set up a property management & maintenance company in florida by preferably buying a company and expanding it; we have been looking at one that currently has 23 houses on its books and is turning over $700 on average per property per month. We also know that we could add a further 10 almost immediately given that Pete already owns 2 houses out there and is therefore already being asked by other owners to take over the management and maintenance of their properties having got a whiff of his potential arrival!

We therefore feel that there would be sufficient income on a monthly basis to justify our partnership, obviously with a view to expanding considerably - ultimately up to around 85 houses in all.

So here come the questions:-

1. We both have a preference for the L1 route as we believe that it would be the route to go down to get a green card eventually. Would i qualify for an L1 or would my turnover here in the UK be too low?

2. Can we set up a business together via the L1 route? I know the L1 route relates to setting up a subsidiary but what if we decided on arrival to merge our subs and then buy another company to expand our operations. After all, it seems that the authorities are interested in growth, employment and the like.

3. If none of the above are possible, what is the best way for two UK based people, who want to become business partners, to buy a company in the USA? Would the E2 route be possible? I hear now that husbands or wives of E2 holders can also work but kids effectively have to leave the country at the age of 21 or get their own visas. I also hear all sorts of dire stories of people being prevented from re-entering the states having left for some reason even though they have a business up and running there. Is the E2 route really as risky as its reputation suggests?

4. If we were to go down the E2, is it completely impossible to obtain a green card via this visa or is there a change in status we could make to allow us to eventually obtain green cards?

Some advice would be greatly appreciated on the best way to achieve our objective; if anyone can also suggest an attorney, visa specialist etc that has experience of matters as outlined above that would be superb!!

Many thanks

[ncmurray]

Hi Scotti, I am not going to be much use to you as I can't really answer any of your questions. However, a couple of points in your post made my ears prick up, so to speak! Firstly, if somebody is telling you that their management company is turning over $700 a month for each property on their books, I think somebody might be telling a few porkies! If I have understood you correctly, then I would suggest that you just walk away.

Secondly, green cards are about as rare as hen's teeth, so, unless you are extremely lucky, thats not going to happen. I don't know what nationality you are (although I could venture a guess[msnsmile]), but some countries are eligible for the Green Card Lottery. If you fit that bill, then you can enter to "win" a green card. I think it runs every year, but I am not too sure about that.

Best of luck, anyhow.

Nuala

[chrizzy100]

I thought the same as you Nuala..I know many MC owners and none get that amount per house..if they did I would be doing the job myself...I can send a forum link where you can get some info..

[steph_goodrum]

I guess be turning over on paper $700 a month (if they are paying owners bills etc. for them but how much of that is profit (ie over and above their obligations)?

[scotti]

ok guys and gals

thank you for the tips on the turnover and wishful thinking on the part of the vendor; i guess that a detailed analysis of the accounts and returns will demonstrate just how much money is flowing through the business and what portion of that is actually profit. But the money issue aside, do you have any views on the visa side of things and how Pete and i could actually go about this - ie the best route?

Many thanks for taking the time to respond.

[Robert5988]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote: wishful thinking on the part of the vendor; i guess that a detailed analysis of the accounts and returns will demonstrate just how much money is flowing through the business and what portion of that is actually profit.[/quote]

I can think of a more sinister phraseology than 'wishful thinking'.

Florida is awash with Management companies, so I would check and double check any accounts - then check who had audited the accounts. You wouldn't be the first to be a victim of 'creative accounting'.

[pete2727]

hi all
my pm charges are at the moment are about $150 managment $120 pool clean $110 grass $35 pest and on average about $450 cleans that brings my total to $865 with no utility bills paid this is for a large property so would expect a drop of $100 or so for smaller homes. this could also drop i would expect if the homes where not getting many bookings. my point being that $700 a month sounds possible to me.

it wuold be an interesting topic if we all list or monthy charges.

pete

[SDJ]

Pete, the money your MC takes is definitely nowhere near the profit he makes. You have to take wages, cleaning materials, travelling expenses, pest control purchases, pool cleaning materials, lawn mower upkeep and repairs, personal income tax he has to pay from his earnings, advertising, telephone calls ++++

Sandra

[pete2727]

Hi Sandra

I agree with what you say but scotti has stated in his post that the 23 properties are turning over 700 a month each. i think this is the average invoice amount per property.

pete

[Robert5988]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:I agree with what you say but scotti has stated in his post that the 23 properties are turning over 700 a month each. i think this is the average invoice amount per property.[/quote]

So what would you think the Gross profit is per house per month? $50?$100?

23 properties @ even $100 = $2,300 a month! That would hardly pay medical insurance for two people!

[pete2727]

Hi Robert

If you take on all the pools say 40 cleans and the grass cutting on top of the managment fee
i think this would be a goog base to start from with a new company of 23 homes. scott also has another ten properties that will come over to him once he starts. i think this could with a bit of hard work to start would pay $18000 a month and we would also have any maintanace work we carry out to add to this.

my wife runs a property managment company back in the uk with only 14 homes and makes £1500 a month gross proffit after all running costs and they only work fridays and saturdays.

pete

[ncmurray]

I think the original poster said that the management company was turning over on average $700 per property. If the average invoice amount is $700, then that almost definitely includes the bills that the manco are paying on behalf of the owner, eg gas and electricity.

I think Robert has hit it spot on. Management companies do a wonderful job, but I don't think that 23 homes, or even 53, will provide a sufficient income. Bottom line is that if a management company is telling you that you can make $700 per month, they are either quoting the gross turnover or it is not quite true.

Sad, but true[msnsad]

[pete2727]

thank you for your reply i wish i could get my utility bills within 700 a month my gas and electric come to 1100 without any of the other costs.

pete

[chrizzy100]

Is that a FL home Pete..that seems high..thats more than my winter heating bills in MA..

[steph_goodrum]

Unfrotunately I don't think we are actually being much help to the original poster with worrying about actual figures here , I think the first thing to address is if the scenario is viable and how the best way to go about it is. There are a couple of people who are more well versed in the technicalities of the Visa system which is what you need.

[florida4sun]

When we started we had 25 homes, if you know what you are doing there are many income streams not associated with the homes themselves. In our first year we cleared way in excess of $100,000 net income.
If you rely totally on what the homes will bring in then that would not be sufficient.
Saying that that was some time ago and before hard times, so I cannot comment on the current economics.
Getting a visa for management company is a whole different ball game. I would without doubt try a different route.



<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Robert5988
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:I agree with what you say but scotti has stated in his post that the 23 properties are turning over 700 a month each. i think this is the average invoice amount per property.[/quote]

So what would you think the Gross profit is per house per month? $50?$100?

23 properties @ even $100 = $2,300 a month! That would hardly pay medical insurance for two people!



[/quote]

[pete2727]

hi chrizzy yes the home is in florida my gas allone in the winter months can hit 800 and the cold winter they had there did'nt help.

pete

[esprit]

The visa advice is complicated. I have sent you a DM.

[Frosty]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by pete2727
hi all
my pm charges are at the moment are about $150 managment $120 pool clean $110 grass $35 pest and on average about $450 cleans that brings my total to $865 with no utility bills paid this is for a large property so would expect a drop of $100 or so for smaller homes. this could also drop i would expect if the homes where not getting many bookings. my point being that $700 a month sounds possible to me.

it wuold be an interesting topic if we all list or monthy charges.

pete
[/quote]

$450 for a house clean, surely not?

Most cleaners charge between $100 - $200 max depending on size of house.

[florida4sun]

Per month - average.<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:$450 for a house clean, surely not?

Most cleaners charge between $100 - $200 max depending on size of house.[/quote]

[Osceola]

Scotti, you've asked some very involved visa questions. that's why everyone is talking about MC charges. The short answer is that you need to talk to some specialists. The problem I foresee with the L1 route is that the UK business must show not only sufficient income but sufficient time in existence. It has to be able to support you. Typically you may see "established" corporations shifting management level personnel overseas using that process.

I've not heard of two partners using the E2 route to operate a management business in Florida. I think a problem to consider is that the income is likely only to support one E2 holder and his or her family. You would definitely want to raise that question to a specialist.

Also, you need to do a lot of research on the state of the economy in Florida. First, before the crash, there were something like 700 property management companies in the Walt Disney World area. As villa owners defaulted on mortgages, they stopped paying management fees and I'm sure management companies have felt the sting. The unemployment rate in Florida is horrendous... something in excess of 12 percent and not improving. The crew mowing my villa lawn is now entirely composed of white American men, not a single hispanic, and so much for the saying that Americans would never do certain jobs!