View Full Version : Trainer Killed At Sea World
SandraBulmer
25-02-2010, 01:54
Central Florida News 13 is reporting breaking news this evening:
"According to a witness, one of the trainers got pulled into the Shamu tank in Shamu Stadium and was killed. It happened during a Dine With Shamu event.
Orange County EMT officials were called out to SeaWorld after it was reported a woman was not breathing. Around 2:30 p.m. News 13 received confirmation from Orange County Fire Rescue that it was a fatality.
The dolphin and whale shows for the rest of the day have been cancelled. But SeaWorld remains open.
SeaWorld and Orange County officials will hold a press conference at 4:30 p.m. Watch it LIVE on News 13."
For any of you currently in Orlando, CFNews 13 would like to know:
"Were you at SeaWorld during today's accident? Share your story and photos so we can share it with the world". No thanks!!
Sandra
I arrived at Sea World after the accident, we were told there had been a terrible accident but not given any further details other than to watch the news.
Tilly the whale involved is the largest killer whale in any Sea World. The trainers do not go in the water with him because of his size.
They are doing maintenance work on one of the pools at the moment and I believe that this may have upset a number of the whales.
We have been to Sea World at least 8 times in the last 4 weeks and they hadn't used Tilly in any of the shows. We were told this was because of the maintenance work it was too difficult to get him to the front pool for the shows.
It is a terrible thing to have happened.
The news reports seem to have conflicting stories, perhaps the full true story will come out in time.
DisneyPrincess
25-02-2010, 10:54
Apparently the whale in question also killed a trainer in Canada in the 90's.
Its very sad indeed.
Lesley S
25-02-2010, 10:55
This is such sad news.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8535618.stm
He is not used in shows with trainers in the pools because of his size and strength but is used as the whale who splashes the front rows of seating. He is also involved in the death of the man who stayed behind after closing time and got into his tank. In that case you cannot really blame the whale.
This whale has been in captivity since he was 2 years old and it would not be possible to release him into the wild so am not sure but have a couple of ideas as to what will happen to him.
This is such very sad news. Unfortunately they are called killer whales for a reason. These animals are portrayed as gentle giants and the the whales at Seaworld are very well trained but it is their nature to hunt and kill in the wild and no amount of training can take that instinct away. Such a shame.
Just seen on the news that Tilly was involved in two other deaths in the 1990s, one was a trainer and the other was a man who jumped into his pool, also, all the whales were being uncooperative and "acting up" on Wednesday, maybe it was an accident waiting to happen.
Very sad indeed and as everyone has said you can't blame the animal. Working with animals of any kind always has a risk in different degrees.
I was so looking forward to Seaworld but I feel will be a bit sad going now.
SteveandJan
25-02-2010, 14:45
Very sad news indeed. I know some people's opinions are that they shouldn't be in captivity but remain in the wild, but in the wild they are hunted until exhausted for their meat and are at other risks or cruelty. Sea World take great care of their animals.
Appledore
25-02-2010, 15:15
It make make me feel quite sick to think of that lady and my heart goes out to all concerned. Seaworld is the top of my list but as previously said we should never under estimate any wild animal. A very sad time for all!
Elaine
Robert5988
25-02-2010, 23:23
Keeping killer whales in captivity is right up there with lion taming and elephants riding bicycles - a throwback to Victorian tastes.
I really hate the hypocrisy of Sea World playing the 'helping the environment' card run a circus! Anyone who has seen the stressed polar bears in their pen will know what I mean.
What a Sad incident, Our thoughts and prayers to the families
gail and david roberts
26-02-2010, 10:38
Shocking News , so sad
Heard this morning that Seaworld have made the right decision and are keeping Tilly at Orlando. They have the largest tank so short of shipping him overseas to an aquarium with a large enough tank he would have been punished if transported to another Seaworld park. Please consider the alternative would be to put him down as it would not be possible to release him into the wild.
When Keiko, a previous captive whale released some years ago, was released to the wild he lived only several years and the conclusion was that it was because he was alone.
So another option which is being discussed is that Tilicum be released into the wild but as part of a group of whales that he knows and is part of.
Its an interesting concept and one which is worth exploring.
I have never believed keeping marine mammals in captivity is a good idea.
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by anorak
So another option which is being discussed is that Tilicum be released into the wild but as part of a group of whales that he knows and is part of.
Its an interesting concept and one which is worth exploring.
[/quote]
But in reality that means the whales at Seaworld. I can't see them letting all their whales go free, just to rehabilitise Tilicum. So I suspect he'll be 'retired' and then eventually be moved to another facility. In human terms, he is institutionalised now and unable to rejoin normal society.
Like many here I don't agree with keeping such animals in captivity. No matter how large an aquarium you provide, for an animal used to roaming the open sea it's like keeping them in a bathtub. Likewise with zoos. But also like many here, I've visited Seaworld and the like, so I've contributed to this situation as much as anyone.
Such facilities these days are much better than the Victorian ones mentioned...there's no doubt that these days many of them contribute to breeding programs and have advanced our knowledge of such creatures. It doesn't excuse keeping them in such places, but it does go someway towards justifying it. Unfortunately places like Seaworld couldn't exist without the income from visitors, so it's a difficult choice.
Its just a real shame they can't house them in more spacious enclosures- really why can't this be possible?
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by lynnroy
Its just a real shame they can't house them in more spacious enclosures- really why can't this be possible?[/quote]On the news they showed an arial view of the whale enclosures and they were tiny compared to the size of the animals.
We went to Animal Kingdom in 2003 and did the train journey round the park and we stopped just outside the elephant pens and there were two elephants inside rocking from side to side and hitting themselves on the bullbars. It was quite distressing to see, it ruined the day for us and we haven't been back since.
WDW and Seaworld pull the "conservation and breeding programmes" card out quite a lot and I am sure they do a lot of good, but they tug on the heart strings and we the consumer fall for it every time.
Seaworld is one of our favourite parks along with Busch Gardens and I just hope they can learn from what has happened this week and maybe put into effect the building of bigger enclosures and reviewing the way the animals are handled.
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:WDW and Seaworld pull the "conservation and breeding programmes" card out quite a lot and I am sure they do a lot of good, but they tug on the heart strings and we the consumer fall for it every time.
[/quote]
While Andrew was at University of Miami he was part of the rescue squad for stranded and ill marine animals and Seaworld were always willing to help out and they do help rescue, treat and release a lot of animals but they do not shout about it.
Tilikum, the whale involved in this incident, was a “stud,” used in Sea World’s breeding program since 1992. He has sired at least 17 calves, these calves can then be released or used instead of capturing whales from the wild.
Tilikum was a wild whale that was caught off Iceland.
Dave
christhear
27-02-2010, 19:12
When the news came out a few days ago, my son, now 12 saw it and said "Oh Mum, they are going to have to shut Seaworld down".
I said this would not happen - and believe it. This is his favourite park.
For those of you thet have seen the belive show, He was chosen to be the child that feeds Shamu, about 2.5 years ago when this new show came out. It was a wonderful experience for him and one the whole family would never forget.
However he has been able to understand what happened was a tragedy but a risk you take. Infact he did mentioned that surely you must sign a waiver if you work with these animals. Now if an autistic boy of 12 can understand this why are the press and someothers making such a mountain out of it.
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by lynnroy
Its just a real shame they can't house them in more spacious enclosures- really why can't this be possible?[/quote]The reason they aren't bigger is simple.....cost.
A jail is still a jail, even if it has big cells!
Zoo or Jail, what really is the difference.
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by christhear
surely you must sign a waiver if you work with these animals....why are the press and someothers making such a mountain out of it.
[/quote]
Because someone died! I don't know whether the trainers at Seaworld sign a waiver or not, but in any case that doesn't stop people being horrified and shocked when it happens.
Regardless of that, Seaworld won't close, there's too much money invested in it.
FraserLynn
28-02-2010, 14:51
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by christhear
Now if an autistic boy of 12 can understand this why are the press and someothers making such a mountain out of it.[/quote]I am not sure that the lady's parents, siblings, partner, children, nieces and nephews will think that anyone is making a mountain out of it....
The trainer involved had no children. When her sister was interviewed she said that the whales were her children and that she would not have wanted anything to happen to Tilicum. The trainers know the risks they are are taking, if not then they are naive. There are 3 Sea World Parks all with whale shows, if you think of how many hours over the years trainers have worked with these whales then the incidents have been few.
christhear
01-03-2010, 01:49
Its not the trainers family that are making a big fuss its other people that are jumping on the band wagon.
Dawn knew the risks her job involved and her family accept this. I have also heard that a standing ovation was given to the show believe when it recommensed this weekend.
I just think that some people use tragic accidents to propel their personnal thoughts into the media.
Katys Grandad
01-03-2010, 15:46
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Frosty
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by lynnroy
Its just a real shame they can't house them in more spacious enclosures- really why can't this be possible?[/quote]The reason they aren't bigger is simple.....cost.
A jail is still a jail, even if it has big cells!
Zoo or Jail, what really is the difference.[/quote]The difference is that Seaworld make a fortune each year out of these helpless captive creatures. Both the whale and the trainer are victims here - not of research or the better good but all in the name of 'entertainment'.[msnmad]
I read today that it would have cost over $2 million to replace and they weren't prepared to lose that amount just because it had only savaged a trainer to death. The whole thing is utterly hideous.
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Lyn
The trainers know the risks they are are taking, if not then they are naive.[/quote]<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by christhear
Dawn knew the risks her job involved and her family accept this.[/quote]Wow...I am just astounded by these comments. What next...no-one cares when soldiers get blown up, because it was their choice to join the army? What about police, fire and other emergency services? Or what about the Georgian luge competitor killed recently at the Olympics?
I am sure all these people know the risks, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't all be concerned when they get injured or killed, especially if it's in the name of (so-called) entertainment, as in this case. Such events should be used to provoke public discussion on whether places like Seaworld are anachronistic these days.
It seems that Seaworld is a hugely contraversal subject. I feel that in a ideal world wild animals- or more specifically non domesticated animals would not be keep in captivity at all.
I love animals generally as a rule more than humans(my family excepted -of course!) I myself have horses and love nothing better than to see them out enjoying themselves with their pals in the fields.
I suppose Seaworld (although it mains job is a massive money making) is helping conserve the whales in the wild if it uses its breeding program to release them. Although whither this contibutes much to the grand scheme of things is another question.
I suppose the real question is should we be going to places like Seaworld and therein be supporting what they do.
From some of the comments on this thread I take it quite a few of you don't go. I would love to see whales up close but I think I would also be sad about seeing them kept in such cramped tanks and performing silly tricks.
Its all very though provoking and I expect we will still go, but part of me feels very guilty now, knowing that someone has died for the sake of our entertainment is really sad.
Robert5988
01-03-2010, 23:42
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:I suppose Seaworld (although it mains job is a massive money making) is helping conserve the whales in the wild if it uses its breeding program to release them.[/quote] I think we should be quite clear, SeaWorld exists for entertainment. They cynically play the ‘marine protection’ card purely to deflect justified criticism. What is the difference between Killer whales performing tricks and elephants riding bicycles? or can we justify the latter by claiming the elephants help with the design of bikes for overweight humans!!
I took my kids just once and they were upset – particularly by the polar bears who were so obviously stressed in that disgraceful pen – and they vowed never to return.
Like others above, I simply fail to see the logic of the ‘she knew the risks’ argument. It wasn’t supposed to be death-defying, it is portrayed as good clean kiddies entertainment; don’t they clap their flippers together to show how much they enjoy entertaining us?
'Killer whales' are not whales at all and Seaworld does not have any whales which it uses for tricks. Orcas or blackfish as they are sometimes known are the largest species in the dolphin family. It would perhaps be more correct if instead of being known as killer whales they were known as whale killers. They are apex predators and therefore have no known predator.
Andrew worked alongside some of the Seaworld employees during his time with the Marine Mammal Stranding Society and they take conservation, rescue and rehabilitation very seriously. As stated they do not make a fuss about it and just get on with it.
floridadreamvilla.co.uk
02-03-2010, 11:36
This is supposed to be a thread about the tragedy that happened at Sea World recently but seems to have gone way off topic. Can we try and keep to topic please [msnsmile].
If you must debate the other issues then can you please start a fresh thread.
p.s. for the record, we're also a little uneasy about the merits of Sea World, but it is a great day out too [msnsmile].
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Father
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by floridadreamvilla.co.uk
This is supposed to be a thread about the tragedy that happened at Sea World recently but seems to have gone way off topic. Can we try and keep to topic please [msnsmile].[/quote]For the record, I disagree.
I don't see the above discussion as off-topic at all. Seems, in the main, highly relevant to me.[/quote]Yes, for what it's worth I agree with Father. The original post was merely a statement about the death of the trainer. I think this has prompted a very interesting and thought-provoking discussion on the validity of theme parks that utilise wild animals for entertainment purposes. This was, after all, what led directly to the death of the trainer.
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Father
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by lynnroy
..I suppose Seaworld ........ is helping conserve the whales in the wild if it uses its breeding program to release them.[/quote]I hope I'm not coming across as dense here but I still don't get this.
I thought a lot of the whales on show were held in captivity because they were orphaned and that whale calves could not survive without their mothers. If so, how can whale calves born in captivity be freed? Would they be able to survive or are the parent whales freed at the same time?
I am quite cynical about all of this. To be honest, although I am far more concerned with stoppping human suffering, like most of us, I am an animal lover. This whole 'breeding programme' thing seems to me to be a device dreamed up to somehow justify keeping wild animals as a highly lucrative form of entertainment.
Again I will stress that marine biology is one of many subjects I know little about but I have a good sense of smell and I smell something funny.[/quote]I'm not so convinced about the breeding program in Seaworld, simply because I don't know so much about it. Some zoos around the world definitely have well-planned breeding programs, and do return animals to the wild. But it's a catch-22...if mankind hadn't driven these animals close to extinction, we wouldn't need to instigate breeding programs to protect them.
I am sure that places like Seaworld contribute to our understanding od such marine creatures, but at what cost to tha animals themselves?
Sorry John, if I am part of the reason this has gone off topic. I obviously have a vested interest in marine research because of our son's background and career which is in marine research, currently with jellyfish (yuk, but somewhat better than when he was working with lemon sharks). In the past Andrew knew some of the Seaworld guys and gals on rescues and they sure do carry out a lot of them so I see both sides of the debate regarding Seaworld.
grayster
02-03-2010, 13:59
I think it is very very sad that a trainer was killed by an orca, a fairly atypical response by any type of captive dolphin. Should people be pointing the finger now at SeaWorld it should primarily be about the reported violent history of this particular mammal and the company's health and safety obligations to its staff.
On the rights and wrongs of keeping creatures in captivity for entertainment this thread could go on and on. Clearly if you disagree with it, then you don't go to SeaWorld and they don't get your dollars - you have made your choice. I trust you are consistent and don't own a hamster, goldfish or guinea pig. Or visit Gatorland, London Aquarium, Longleat or the zoo.
For those, including me, that do enjoy SeaWorld, to a point, in particular in how it allows us and our children to see these wonderful creatures up close, we can make the choice to attend. I would prefer not to see the shows but others love it. In the perfect world my family and I would see these creatures in their natural environment all over the world, rather than in a 'bath' - but the world isn't perfect. One thing for me, the anti - argument is far from compelling in this situation unlike the ones against bull fighting and the travelling circus. And the people who work with these creatures, clearly care about them.
Grayster- I think your post sums the situation up perfectly
Katys Grandad
02-03-2010, 15:56
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by grayster
I trust you are consistent and don't own a hamster, goldfish or guinea pig. Or visit Gatorland, London Aquarium, Longleat or the zoo.
[/quote]Hardly a reasonable analogy.
Surely the real point is whether a responsible pet owner or those type of places would put commercial considerations before safety if the animals caused harm to somebody? That's what Sea World appears to be doing here.
grayster
02-03-2010, 17:07
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Katys Grandad
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by grayster
I trust you are consistent and don't own a hamster, goldfish or guinea pig. Or visit Gatorland, London Aquarium, Longleat or the zoo.[/quote]Hardly a reasonable analogy.
Surely the real point is whether a responsible pet owner or those type of places would put commercial considerations before safety if the animals caused harm to somebody? That's what Sea World appears to be doing here.[/quote]Correct: which is why the SeaWorld's responsibility for its staff health and safety was the first point I raised. The issue here is that an employer may have endangered a member of staff and they were very sadly killed as a result (and a recurrence must be prevented). This is the direct issue in this terrible incident.
Whether orcas, or all other animals, should be held captive by humans is another much bigger discussion. And perhaps should be on another thread.
3 people have now died in the presence of Tili, but I do not believe any of them were 'savaged'. Tili was just doing what Orcas do. I get very upset when I keep reading he has savaged people. He was caught in the wild at 2 years of age and has been in captivity ever since, Sea World did not capture him just tried to give him a better life, my thoughts on keeping Orca's in captivity are mixed but however dreadful the incident was he was only behaving in a normal manner NOT an aggresive manner.
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Lyn
3 people have now died in the presence of Tili, but I do not believe any of them were 'savaged'. Tili was just doing what Orcas do. I get very upset when I keep reading he has savaged people.... my thoughts on keeping Orca's in captivity are mixed but however dreadful the incident was he was only behaving in a normal manner NOT an aggresive manner.
[/quote]Very true. In their natural habitat Orcas often hunt and feed on seals and small whales. They have been filmed throwing seals up into the air, and dragging them under water, during the kill.
Pure speculation on my part of course, but I would think that a human in a wetsuit looks (to an Orca) remarkably like a seal.
There is a great danger in athropomorphising the behaviour of animals in captivity, which can often lead to the very tragic situations we've seen recently.<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Lyn
Sea World did not capture him just tried to give him a better life,[/quote]This bit I don't agree with. I doubt very much if Seaworld's motives were to give the animal a better way of life. They needed a new animal in their attraction and this one was available. It's analagous to moving someone from one jail to another...