View Full Version : BA strike
SandraBulmer
16-12-2009, 13:47
I know there are a few members here who work with airlines and maybe others with insurance or just personal experience. Would appreciate advice.
Flying tomorrow with BA so should get there OK. But due to fly back on 30 December. Just want to be clear on what BA's responsibilities are. At the moment, guidance is that they will contact us nearer the time so we have provided local tel no and email. Have contacted insurance company and they say we should be covered under cancellation/curtailment/abandonment which would enable us to book other flights if BA unable to fly us, but we should first seek full refund from BA and written confirmation that flight did not operate.
Any more advice? No need to tell me not to use BA again, that's a no-brainer!
Cheers, Sandra.
Hi Sandra,
We have one daughter returning from Orlando on 29th and the other arriving that day, so we share your concerns! From what we can establish so far, if you are flying into Gatwick you are likely to be less affected than anyone flying into Heathrow. That is not to say that Gatwick will not be affected, but to be honest until nearer the time it is difficult to say, alot can happen during this time!
The advice given by your insurance company is correct. BA are offering full refund or change of flights if you want to go down that route.
Not sure it is fair to blame the airline, their staff are well paid and in the current economy with many people taking pay cuts and / or losing their jobs the staff are not gaining much sympathy from the public with their intransigent attitude to cutting hours and salaries.
I think at the moment we just have to wait and see how everything pans out, I am sure negotiations are on-going.
It sounds today like the airline and the unions have agreed to go back to the table, so maybe this will be averted...let's hope so. However in situations like this much damage is already done to reputations, regardless of whether the strike happens or not.
Regarding your insurance, just check the small print, as there was some discussion on another forum about some policies excluding cancellations due to industrial action.
Also bear in mind that any refund from BA will be for the value of your original tickets. It's unlikely that this amount will cover the purchase of new tickets, especially at such short notice. They also are unlikely to cover additional costs caused by any delay or rescheduling/rerouting. Hopefully your insurance would cover this.
Good luck, I hope it doesn't spoil your holiday.
BA have stated that try to move people on the other carriers if they are abroad when the strike starts.
At the stage you do not want to cancel as you only get back what you paid. Current reports are showing that other carriers with free seats have increased prices between 20% and 70% after the strike vote was announced.
Dave
Katys Grandad
17-12-2009, 07:41
What intrigues me about this situation where your outbound flight is outside the strike period but your return is potentially within it, is what the position of the aircraft and crew will be?
Will a crew member who intends to strike really turn up for Christmas period outbound flight where the return won't be flying or is it BA's intention that the aircraft will return without paying passengers just to get an about-to-strike crew home?
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Father
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by fiona
Not sure it is fair to blame the airline, their staff are well paid and in the current economy with many people taking pay cuts and / or losing their jobs the staff are not gaining much sympathy from the public with their intransigent attitude to cutting hours and salaries.
[/quote]
Would it be okay for someone to ask owners to lower the rental prices on their villas citing the current economy?
I think not but it's great how we can all nominate others who should accept lower incomes and accuse them of intransigence when they don't just suck it up.
[/quote]
Why shouldn't people ask? - everyone is suffering these days and there's nothing wrong with trying to save money if you can.
As for the BA crew, Fiona is absolutely correct I think...the cabin crew are not gaining much sympathy with the public. Whatever your feelings on how badly treated (or not) the BA cabin crew are, planning to strike for 12 days over one of the busiest (and therefore most profitable) periods for all airlines does seem excessive.
I hope both sides can start to see common sense soon, because the current entrenched positions being taken by both sides can only hurt the carrier in the long term.
floridadreamvilla.co.uk
17-12-2009, 12:04
That would be absolutely fine - that's what the Delete key on the villa owner's keyboard was made for [msnwink].
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Father
Would it be okay for someone to ask owners to lower the rental prices on their villas citing the current economy?
[/quote]
steph_goodrum
17-12-2009, 12:24
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Father
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by fiona
Not sure it is fair to blame the airline, their staff are well paid and in the current economy with many people taking pay cuts and / or losing their jobs the staff are not gaining much sympathy from the public with their intransigent attitude to cutting hours and salaries. [/quote]Would it be okay for someone to ask owners to lower the rental prices on their villas citing the current economy?
I think not but it's great how we can all nominate others who should accept lower incomes and accuse them of intransigence when they don't just suck it up.[/quote]Anyone can always ask but at the end of the day, will Disney give you a discount because fewer people are travelling? No they will raise the price and and the cost of car parking for those that will pay the asking price because they know their operating costs and if they aren't met then they won't be in business and villa owners are no different and realistically should take the same approach.
At the end of the day don't forget a holiday in Florida is a luxury item and not a basic right or necessity like food, shelter etc. and just like every other luxury item if you can't afford it you go without.
That's not to say we don't all like a bargain but as we all know from sales not all bargains are all they are cracked up to be. Hence announcements like yesterdays of Globespan, they have been taking bookings knowing they may not be able to fulfil them in an effort to keep afloat which hasn't worked and will leave many people wondering if they will be able to have a holiday.
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Anyone can always ask but at the end of the day, will Disney give you a discount because fewer people are travelling? No they will raise the price and and the cost of car parking for those that will pay the asking price because they know their operating costs and if they aren't met then they won't be in business and villa owners are no different and realistically should take the same approach.[/quote]Overall Disney are making a profit but many areas of the company are not. EuroDisney for example lost 63m € in the year ended Sept, but there's no talk of it closing, and in fact they are offering 30% off vacations over the Christmas period.
BA are estimated to be losing close to £2m a day even without the proposed strike. These kinds of numbers are reflected throughout the industry, apart from a few notable exceptions such as Easy Jet (and even their profit didn't come from passenger bookings).
Many businesses will take a temporary loss in order to stay in business for the longer term. If the losses are sustained over a long period then clearly it's not economically viable, but to say that business only function when income is higher than their operating costs is just not true.
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Sniff
Many businesses will take a temporary loss in order to stay in business for the longer term. If the losses are sustained over a long period then clearly it's not economically viable, but to say that business only function when income is higher than their operating costs is just not true.
[/quote]Making a loss is something anyone, competent or incompetent, can do but isn't 'in business' though is it? It's actually 'on the way to out of business'.
You only have to look at Globespan to realise that and I have Scottish guests telling me that their prices were more expensive than other carriers so I gather they weren't exactly doing things on the cheap anyway.
To function on cheaper prices in the short to medium term means being able to sustain the business on greater internal funding - in other words, it depends on how much money you happen to have spare to prop up the business. If a business doesn't have internal funding or is unable to find this, then it will shortly be 'out of business'.
BA is not changing its prices to 'cheap' or even 'cheaper' and neither are any other of the airlines who are putting up their prices and are hoping they can mop up any desperate passengers. So the other airlines are 'in business' and not 'on the way to out of business'.
Anyway, this is now going completely off topic as BA isn't (currently at least so far as we're informed) going out of business, just having a strike.
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by blott
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Sniff
Many businesses will take a temporary loss in order to stay in business for the longer term. If the losses are sustained over a long period then clearly it's not economically viable, but to say that business only function when income is higher than their operating costs is just not true.
[/quote]Making a loss is something anyone, competent or incompetent, can do but isn't 'in business' though is it? It's actually 'on the way to out of business'.
You only have to look at Globespan to realise that and I have Scottish guests telling me that their prices were more expensive than other carriers so I gather they weren't exactly doing things on the cheap anyway.
To function on cheaper prices in the short to medium term means being able to sustain the business on greater internal funding - in other words, it depends on how much money you happen to have spare to prop up the business. If a business doesn't have internal funding or is unable to find this, then it will shortly be 'out of business'.
BA is not changing its prices to 'cheap' or even 'cheaper' and neither are any other of the airlines who are putting up their prices and are hoping they can mop up any desperate passengers. So the other airlines are 'in business' and not 'on the way to out of business'.
Anyway, this is now going completely off topic as BA isn't (currently at least so far as we're informed) going out of business, just having a strike.
[/quote]
Any company run by competent management should be able to sustain itself through periods of non-profit...that's part of being "in business" and it has nothing at all to do with going "out of business".
How long they can sustain the periods of non-profit varies from company to company, and depends on a huge number of factors. But any business that relies upon constant, continual and uninterrupted profit to survive is not going to last long, especially in the airline/travel business.
I agree the thread has veered off from the OP's question :D
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Sniff
How long they can sustain the periods of non-profit varies from company to company, and depends on a huge number of factors. But any business that relies upon constant, continual and uninterrupted profit to survive is not going to last long, especially in the airline/travel business.[/quote]Not necessarily profit but turnover. And remember we were talking about home owners here in response to Father's question <blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Would it be okay for someone to ask owners to lower the rental prices on their villas citing the current economy? [/quote]and not airlines.
Please, let's have the next post (if there is one) on topic about the BA strike and its customers.
Blott, I fail to see how you can possibly consider that the state of BA's finances and how long they can continue in the current loss-making form, are not related to the BA strike and its customers. The two are inextricably linked - if BA was making a healthy profit it's unlikely the management would to be attempting to change the employees' pay and conditions, and therefore the employees would not be considering industrial action. The strike could (whether it goes ahead or not) have the effect of driving BA into further losses, which could result in redundancies, reduction of routes, cuts in services and ultimately (in the worst case) the failure of the airline. This seems to me entirely on topic.
To answer your specific points, my comments on a company's profitability were made in response to Steph, not Father. Turnover is, ultimately, irrelevant if there is no profit.
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Sniff
Blott, I fail to see how you can possibly consider that the state of BA's finances and how long they can continue in the current loss-making form, are not related to the BA strike and its customers. [/quote]I don't think I said that I did consider such a thing.<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Sniff
To answer your specific points, my comments on a company's profitability were made in response to Steph, not Father. Turnover is, ultimately, irrelevant if there is no profit.[/quote]It doesn't matter, both posts are about 'companies' of one sort or another. One's about BA and the other is about home owners.
Turnover pays the bills (or it should in a well founded company) and profit pays for the cake icing in terms of expansion, improvement, diversification or such things as increased staff or salaries.<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Sniff
But any business that relies upon constant, continual and uninterrupted profit to survive is not going to last long, especially in the airline/travel business.[/quote]Exactly why turnover is important also.
And now, totally back on topic - I have no idea as to the resolution of BA's current problems. Let's hope they can sort their issues out in a way that is responsive to their customers, without whom there is no turnover or profit.
Katys Grandad
17-12-2009, 19:52
Latest twist is that the High Court have now declared the action unlawful. I'm not sure this helps and, ultimately, might even make things worse.
(I am of course referring to the strike not to discounting villa rental[msnwink])
mfairhurst
17-12-2009, 20:14
May be the courts are talking sense at last as with P & O Ferries they strike at bank holiday and the only people to lose at the end are the workers .
It is time we worked and did some talking and not be so keen to stike at a moments notice ,Then maybe we will book with them in the future .
As we have lost faith in some companys that are expensive in the begining as Ba are cheaper flying out of Usa into UK why
We flew out with Vigin on the 10 December and it was on time and the crew was excellent the only problem was with one family of 8 2 men 2 woman and 4 children and they went for more beer and drinks all through the flight must have thought they were in a british pub and the staff could not believe it and too polite to say any thing or refuse ,Hope none of the adults wee driving when they got of the plane .
MAUREEN
www.onlinefloridavillas.com/villas/1683.aspx
Katys Grandad
17-12-2009, 20:28
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:[i]Originally posted by mfairhurst
As we have lost faith in some companys that are expensive in the begining as Ba are cheaper flying out of Usa into UK why
[/quote]
It's not always the case Maureen although the higher taxes over here certainly contribute to the situation. I think you'll find that return fares aren't that different on the whole.
ShirleyD
17-12-2009, 21:04
<span style="color:red">Cabin crew strike - called off</span id="red">
We are delighted for our customers that the threat of a Christmas strike has been lifted by the court.
It is a decision that will be welcomed by hundreds of thousands of families in the UK and around the world.
There was never any need for a strike and we hope that Unite will take this opportunity to reflect before deciding its next steps. We believe the public would want that too.
In recent days, we believe Unite has formed a better understanding of our position and of the ways in which we could move forward.
It has also become very clear that our customers do not believe that old-style trade union militancy is relevant to our efforts to move British Airways back toward profitability. Financial success is essential to build the kind of business our customers want and provide long-term opportunities for our staff.
mfairhurst
17-12-2009, 21:47
At least someone as seen sence in this instance with the economic climate in the UK Unions are not always right in thir thinking .
MAUREEN
www.onlinefloridavillas.com/villas/1683.aspx
Robert5988
17-12-2009, 22:52
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:At least someone as seen sence in this instance with the economic climate in the UK Unions are not always right in thir thinking .[/quote]Whatever our views on the merits of the BA strike, the court decision is a disgrace.
It has overturned the clear will of the Union members on a technicality.
BA refused to give Unite a list of those leaving the company.
Even if every ineligble vote was disregarded there would still be an overwhelming majority in favour of strike action.
The law is an ass!
Katys Grandad
17-12-2009, 23:39
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Robert5988
Whatever our views on the merits of the BA strike, the court decision is a disgrace.
It has overturned the clear will of the Union members on a technicality.
BA refused to give Unite a list of those leaving the company.
Even if every ineligble vote was disregarded there would still be an overwhelming majority in favour of strike action.
The law is an ass![/quote]Indeed. Whatever the rights and wrongs, taking your employees to court to challenge what is very clearly their right to decide their response to the issue doesn't seem to be a recipe for ensuring future goodwill. I suspect we haven't heard the last of this strike and I'd expect the resolve of the staff to be reinforced by this decision.
SandraBulmer
18-12-2009, 19:58
Well, have only just caught up with all that has been going on. Unfortunately it's academic for us, as my father-in-law was rushed into hospital just after my original post so we have had to cancel our xmas trip.
I have to give credit to BA customer relations who have been tremendously helpful. They were willing to change our flights for no charge because we were travelling (back) in the strike period. However, as F-I-L is still in intensive care and we do not know what the future holds, we cannot commit to making another booking at this stage. So we will have to go down route of seeking refunds via travel insurance (BA do, however, refund the taxes and other charges).
Insurance company seem OK so far, so fingers crossed we get it all sorted. I may be back asking for some more advice!
Sandra
floridadreamvilla.co.uk
18-12-2009, 20:05
I never said they didn't [msnwink].
The villa owner obviously has to be comfortbale with who is staying in their villa and the guest has to be comfortable with whoever they are renting from.
Us 'mere' villa owners get to choose too [msnwink].
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Father
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by floridadreamvilla.co.uk
That would be absolutely fine - that's what the Delete key on the villa owner's keyboard was made for [msnwink].[/quote]Of course delete buttons are not only on villa owners' keyboards, mere renters have them as well [msnwink].
[/quote]
chrizzy100
19-12-2009, 02:17
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by SandraBulmer
Well, have only just caught up with all that has been going on. Unfortunately it's academic for us, as my father-in-law was rushed into hospital just after my original post so we have had to cancel our xmas trip.
I have to give credit to BA customer relations who have been tremendously helpful. They were willing to change our flights for no charge because we were travelling (back) in the strike period. However, as F-I-L is still in intensive care and we do not know what the future holds, we cannot commit to making another booking at this stage. So we will have to go down route of seeking refunds via travel insurance (BA do, however, refund the taxes and other charges).
Insurance company seem OK so far, so fingers crossed we get it all sorted. I may be back asking for some more advice!
Sandra
[/quote]
Sorry to hear that..all my good wishes for you and yours..
Katys Grandad
19-12-2009, 08:34
Looks like BA are on a charm offensive now. I just had an e-mail from them awarding me 25,000 miles for my "continued support" during the "recent period of uncertainty". Strange thing is I didn't have any flights booked with BA during the strike period but I'll graciously accept their gift without a fight.[msnsmile2]
florida4sun
19-12-2009, 14:50
Me too I had 50000 but have not flown with them for years, how does that work!
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Katys Grandad
Looks like BA are on a charm offensive now. I just had an e-mail from them awarding me 25,000 miles for my "continued support" during the "recent period of uncertainty". Strange thing is I didn't have any flights booked with BA during the strike period but I'll graciously accept their gift without a fight.[msnsmile2]
[/quote]
Katys Grandad
19-12-2009, 16:38
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by florida4sun
Me too I had 50000 but have not flown with them for years, how does that work!
[/quote]
Well I assume with me that it's down to good looks and charm but I've no idea how you go them Martin![msnwink][msnwink]
Seriously though, I have absolutely no idea.
mfairhurst
19-12-2009, 16:57
Its a good Pr job they know how to charm people and try to keep customers .They must be worried that people have gone elsewere .
MAUREEN
www.onlinefloridavillas.com/villas/1683.aspx
Thats weird!
Me & the wife HAVE got flight booked on the 30th and we got 10,000 each for our continued support!
How's that work?
SunLover
19-12-2009, 18:39
Well we have flights booked for Christmas and haven't received ANYTHING ! [:O]
Katys Grandad
19-12-2009, 19:10
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by SunLover
Well we have flights booked for Christmas and haven't received ANYTHING ! [:O][/quote]I know this sounds a daft question, but are you members of the BA Executive Club?
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Katys Grandad
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by SunLover
Well we have flights booked for Christmas and haven't received ANYTHING ! [:O][/quote]I know this sounds a daft question, but are you members of the BA Executive Club?
[/quote]
I am, but I am obviously not good looking or charming enough because I haven't received anything from BA for MY "continued support" [msncry] !!
5 in our family are members of the executive club, and 3 of us flew last week with BA and the other 2 will be the week after next. We come out here 2 / 3 times a year always flying BA. None of us are being thanked for our continued support either[}:)]
Just returned on a BA flight, members of the Executive Club, but so far, nothing!!! Well done to those of you who got some miles given to you.
Sandra
florida4sun
19-12-2009, 21:54
I don't want mine can I give them away?
Katys Grandad
19-12-2009, 22:35
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by florida4sun
I don't want mine can I give them away?
[/quote]
Not sure, but you can donate them to charity. Are the miles credited to your account already or do you have to take a flight before you have access to them?
florida4sun
19-12-2009, 22:38
They are in there, I will donate them [msnsmile]
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Katys Grandad
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by florida4sun
I don't want mine can I give them away?
[/quote]
Not sure, but you can donate them to charity. Are the miles credited to your account already or do you have to take a flight before you have access to them?
[/quote]
SunLover
19-12-2009, 23:06
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Katys Grandad
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by SunLover
Well we have flights booked for Christmas and haven't received ANYTHING ! [:O][/quote]I know this sounds a daft question, but are you members of the BA Executive Club?
[/quote]
Yes [msnwink]
ShirleyD
20-12-2009, 13:27
Maybe it is like with Tesco vouches where they only need to encourage you to shop if you are not. My son spends a fraction of what I do and is always getting discount vouchers, all I get are the ones I've earned. I'm sure the marketing people know what they are doing even though it annoys us [msnwink]