Solar Heated Pool

[Pamster]

Hi

We're planning on staying in Florida in April 2010. I've noticed some villas have solar heating for pools as well as gas or electric. Is solar heating enough to warm a pool in April for night time dips or would I be best paying for electric or gas heating as well?

Thanks

Pam

[Shirley G]

Hi Pam,

We have solar heating for the pool but I still advise my guests to have the electric as well in April. At this time of year it can be a bit chilly for a nightime dip without it.

[DaveL]

We to have both solar and electric. Solar gives your pool water around a 10 deg boost over what it would be without solar. This is a general comment as a sunny day in summer will be different to a cloudy day in winter.

Even with a warm April there is no way I would go in the pool with just solar on at this time of the year. It could be just me but only you know how you like your pool water. Personally if it takes me more than 10 secs to walk down the steps into the water then it's to cold.

Dave

[ShirleyD]

I like a really warm pool and we find solar is plenty for April to October. My husband was at the villa in March this year and switched the electric off, but they were having very good weather and his feet don't get as cold as mine. I would say to be guided by the villa owner as all pools are different.

[andrewmckay5]

Pam, where are you staying as there is a big difference in the use of solar heating between Orlando and the Gulf?
We only have solar on the Gulf and the pool is used 12 months of the year by guests plus ourselves. My 80 year old mum , wife ( no age given out :D ) and 7 year old daughter have all used the pool in December and January with no problems.

Andrew

[Robert5988]

There are of course solar panels and solar panels

If you have lots of panels it will be OK in April. Many pools have solar just to supplement their electric/gas heating and solar won't heat a hot tub. <blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Pam, where are you staying as there is a big difference in the use of solar heating between Orlando and the Gulf?[/quote]Why?

Generally Orlando is just as hot as the Gulf - if not hotter.

[Clare R]

I totally agree with Andrew, there is a considerable 'extra warmth' on the Gulf Coast compared with Orlando in the winter.

[andrewmckay5]

I think you may have answered your question in the first part. In my experience and no doubt you may disagree there are a lot more villas on the Gulf in the area I know that rely totally on solar panels; maybe they use SOLAR PANELS not just Solar Panels as a primary source and not just to supplement. Also I have read that there is more sunlight or whatever is needed to power the solar panels.
andrew<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originall y posted by Robert5988
There are of course solar panels and solar panels

If you have lots of panels it will be OK in April. Many pools have solar just to supplement their electric/gas heating and solar won't heat a hot tub. <blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Pam, where are you staying as there is a big difference in the use of solar heating between Orlando and the Gulf?[/quote]Why?

Generally Orlando is just as hot as the Gulf - if not hotter.[/quote]

[Katys Grandad]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Clare R
I totally agree with Andrew, there is a considerable 'extra warmth' on the Gulf Coast compared with Orlando in the winter.
[/quote]

I confess to knowing nothing about solar panels but is it temperature or hours of sunshine that is the important factor?

I do however know that there is no significant difference in either factor between the Gulf Coast area (which it has to be said is hundreds of miles long and subject to wide variations of weather within itself) and the central Florida area. If anything, central Florida enjoys consistently higher temperatures - although not by much.

[Pookie]

I beg to differ, if we had electric pool heat on during the summer months on the coast we would be breeding lord knows what in the pool.

The Cape Haze peninsular does seem to be a little blip maybe because it sits out into the gulf slightly.

Our pool during the summer is in the 90's most days.

In fact a pool cooler might be the next must have accessory:D

We do recommend electric heating October thru April some guests do want the pool heat some do not.

Personal choice at the end of the day.

Lynne

[rogerdunnaker]

The difference in the size of solar panels makes a big difference in their abillity to heat the pool, but also the orientation of the villa, if the villa and therefore the solar panels are south facing, they get the benefit of the sun for more hours and therefore are able to warm the pool more.

If you have a large solar panel and a south facing villa, as ours is, then the solar heating is more than adequate in April.

[Robert5988]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:I beg to differ, if we had electric pool heat on during the summer months on the coast we would be breeding lord knows what in the pool.[/quote]I am not sure what you are differing about?

I was agreeing that solar will heat a pool, certainly in April, and with a big enough system(e.g area of solar)panels extend that well into the winter.

The point I was making was that solar would work just as well in Orlando as the Gulf coast.

There is a superb US Government website on the pros and cons of various methods of pool heating. I used this on a project I carried out on pool heating.

http://www.energysavers.gov/your_home/water_heating/index.cfm/mytopic=13280

The determining factors are mainly Latitude and Hours of daylight and temperature.

[florida4sun]

Robert are you basing this on experience? as I do have experience with this very subject, we used to spend w/e on the coast and I did notice the solar seemed to be more efficient, particularity in the winter. I was told this was due to their being less cloud on the coast as clouds tend to form more over land. Not sure if thats true but it makes sense. Anyway we compared temp readings from 10 homes without heat inland, 10 with solar inland and 10 on the coast.
If I remember correctly the averages were 11 degrees higher than unheated for the Orlando solar pools and the ones on the coast were 18 degrees higher than the unheated pools in Orlando. So yes there definitely is a difference. In fact in the summer we used to cool the water on some of the gulf homes (by running solar system at night and turning the pump power down for a slow flow and even had a couple with chillers).
For April in Orlando I would go for a home with at least a backup heater. You may or may not need it. <blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Robert5988
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:I beg to differ, if we had electric pool heat on during the summer months on the coast we would be breeding lord knows what in the pool.[/quote]

I am not sure what you are differing about?

I was agreeing that solar will heat a pool, certainly in April, and with a big enough system(e.g area of solar)panels extend that well into the winter.

The point I was making was that solar would work just as well in Orlando as the Gulf coast.

There is a superb US Government website on the pros and cons of various methods of pool heating. I used this on a project I carried out on pool heating.

http://www.energysavers.gov/your_home/water_heating/index.cfm/mytopic=13280

The determining factors are mainly Latitude and Hours of daylight and temperature.[/quote]

[DaveL]

I agree that in the summer solar will make your pool to hot. This is the reason we installed an electronic monitor and control system. Once the pool reaches the required temperature then the control diverts the water flow away from the solar panel so that the pool stops heating by this means.

Now the sun will keeping heating the pool by just shinning on it, so it can go higher than your set point. Now if you want to get really clever then you do already have a pool cooler; it's your solar panels. If you run pool once the air temperature is about 10 degs lower than the pool they act as radiator panels and take some of the heat from the pool. Again your control system can do this for you automatically.

I can not remember where I found it but there is a very good guide to what can be achieved with solar on the Internet. The report was part part of an government backed energy survey and was not tainted by sales blurb.

The bottom line was size and construction mattered with size being the main factor. Most of the solar installation companies use the same formula for working out what you need for your pool. It involves the surface area and volume of the pool, it's aspect and the direction in which the panels will face. This is the short version, and depending on how good the company is, will give a good size guide to what you need.

Most companies aim for a ten degree rise in the water during the spring and autumn periods. Now if you have more or larger panels than recommended you will be able to put heat into the pool at a faster rate.

Saying you have solar is a bit like saying you have a car. Without saying what type, people carrier or Ferrari, you don't know the performance and capacity.

When we first owned our home we had solar installed. We took the recommended size and number of panels and increased it by 33%. We had thought this might allow us to use just this method for pool heating. If it was your own pool and you lived there all the time you might just get away with it. You would know that during the winter during dull periods the pool would not be as warm, and you probably would not want to swim anyway.

However for guests that are there for only two weeks this is not an option. If they are there in January they want to swim and it's no good saying it's cloudy and the pool will warm up next week. After that first year we installed an electric heater that works alongside the solar. The solar boosts the water temperature and means the the heater does not have to work as hard as it brings the pool up to heat faster.

Sorry if this has been a bit long winded but as you can see there is no one right answer. The owners on this site can be trusted to give you good advice about their homes. So when you have picked a home ask the owner about the pool heating as they are the only people who really know how their pool performs.

Dave

[Pookie]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I beg to differ, if we had electric pool heat on during the summer months on the coast we would be breeding lord knows what in the pool.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am not sure what you are differing about?[/quote] <blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:I do however know that there is no significant difference in either factor between the Gulf Coast area (which it has to be said is hundreds of miles long and subject to wide variations of weather within itself) and the central Florida area. If anything, central Florida enjoys consistently higher temperatures - although not by much.[/quote]The above comment is what I was referring too.

Lynne

[Robert5988]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Robert are you basing this on experience? as I do have experience with this very subject,[/quote]

Yes I am basing this on experience.

As I said I carried out a feasibility study for our large beachside pool(albeit on the Atlantic) and produced a report.

Similar to Dave L in the quote below, which was my experience. <blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:I can not remember where I found it but there is a very good guide to what can be achieved with solar on the Internet. The report was part part of an government backed energy survey and was not tainted by sales blurb.

The bottom line was size and construction mattered with size being the main factor. Most of the solar installation companies use the same formula for working out what you need for your pool. It involves the surface area and volume of the pool, it's aspect and the direction in which the panels will face. This is the short version, and depending on how good the company is, will give a good size guide to what you need.[/quote]

I read up quite extensively on the subject and took advice fron experts in the field.

IIRC there are 3 different regions for solar output in Florida - North, Central and South. Each of these regions is split into 2 or 3 sub regions.

However the differences in solar collection were very small and I was advised that for all practical purposes I could use the Government figures for Miami for anywhere in Central/southern Florida in my calculations.

I have never heard of the Gulf being less cloudy than Orlando area(I accept that you state you have no idea if that is true) In fact subjectively I would have thought the influence of the sea on either coast would increase the chance of clouds.

If you look at the weather statistics for Orlando and Tampa and Miami for April you will see that Orlando is marginally the warmest.

IMO the only way that a gulf pool could be 7 degrees warmer than an Orlando pool of the same size would be that it had a greater area of solar panels, or be better sited. Wind chill('chill' being a relative term!) is often the biggest cause of heat loss.

The important point is that solar output is low compared with electric, which in turn is lower than gas. As Dave states, you cannot expect to go to an unheated pool and heat it straight away with solar - it takes a long time to bring it up to temperature in Spring.

However surely most people have an automatic system with solar and leave it running during the day - you need to run the pump anyway and it costs very little to have solar running.

[Katys Grandad]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by florida4sun[ I was told this was due to their being less cloud on the coast as clouds tend to form more over land. Not sure if thats true but it makes sense.[/quote]Well if it is true, it proves the point because the homes on this site aren't on the coast, they're several miles inland!<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Pookie
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I beg to differ, if we had electric pool heat on during the summer months on the coast we would be breeding lord knows what in the pool.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am not sure what you are differing about?[/quote] <blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:I do however know that there is no significant difference in either factor between the Gulf Coast area (which it has to be said is hundreds of miles long and subject to wide variations of weather within itself) and the central Florida area. If anything, central Florida enjoys consistently higher temperatures - although not by much.[/quote]The above comment is what I was referring too.

Lynne[/quote]Then you are differing with all available statistics - which of course you're perfectly entitled to do.

[andrewmckay5]

No I would say a mile or so in Rotonda. I know its difficult to judge distances in photos but this links to aerial photos of Rotonda with the coast in the background (page 4 under Rotonda West)
:
http://www.brettslattery.com/pics/
andrew
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Katys Grandad

[i]

Well if it is true, it proves the point because the homes on this site aren't on the coast, they're several miles inland!

[florida4sun]

A couple of miles is not going to make any difference is it. The homes we used for comparison were on Rotunda.<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Katys Grandad
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by florida4sun[ I was told this was due to their being less cloud on the coast as clouds tend to form more over land. Not sure if thats true but it makes sense.[/quote]Well if it is true, it proves the point because the homes on this site aren't on the coast, they're several miles inland![/quote]

[Clare R]

I hope the original poster, Pam, has managed to fathom out the answer to her original question! I would say on the Gulf Coast (most, not all villas are in Rotonda) solar heating is acceptable in April, I cannot vouch for Orlando.

[Pamster]

Crikey I couldn't believe all the replies when I logged in tonight [msneek]I am looking to stay in Orlando in April and I am going to pay extra for additional heating. I want to take full advantage of the pool so I want to make sure it's warm whenever I want to use it.

Thanks for all your replies [msnsmile2]

[atush]

there are 2 factors in pool heating. The heat supplied (ie solar or electric) and the mean temp of the water unheated. the mean temp of any pool in April in orlando will be lower than one on the coast. Because, as it is further from the sea, the night time temps are colder and so the pool loses more heat during the night. conversly, as staed above, cloud cover will affect solar heating during the day.

Use of pool covers (which most guests do not bother with but perhaps should just for their own comfort) will greatly help in keeping a pool warm and retaining any heating either passive or supplied by solar/electric.