View Full Version : Removing children from school to on vacation...
How do you guys feel about taking your children out of school to go on vacation during the non-peak times of the year?
I was reading in the Walt Disney World Unofficial Guide about this very subject. There were two teacher comments and one parent comment. TEACHERS were saying that parents expect to get a 'nice little packet' of work to send with their children on vacation and get full credit for the class time missed. That person also said it is impossible for children to complete all lessons that is to be done in school on vacation/holiday. The response also said that he/she tells parents upfront that taking their children on a non-holiday that they will not past tests and cannot catch up on the work missed. Students, upon return, ask to be excused from testing because of this. The one PARENT said that it's worth it to take their children during the off-peak to get away from the crowds. This person goes on to say that all you have to do is just tell the school in advance that the family is going on vacation.
Basically, teachers are not happy with this type of parenting method. Is a child's vacation (ease of large crowds during the non-peak) more important than their learning. As a college professor, I cannot relate to elementary or high school teachers level but I believe that they do miss out on some learning activities. [msnembarrased]I admit, I have taken my daughter out of school for a week to go on vacation in the past and I didn't think it was a big deal but apparently it is to some teachers. I thought this was an interesting topic to discuss. What do you guys think about this?
Sorry for rambling...
I made a mistake in the title...I meant to type "Removing children from school to go on vacation..." Sorry!
chrizzy100
06-12-2003, 05:31
quote:Originally posted by Amirah
How do you guys feel about taking your children out of school to go on vacation during the non-peak times of the year?
I was reading in the Walt Disney World Unofficial Guide about this very subject. There were two teacher comments and one parent comment. TEACHERS were saying that parents expect to get a "nice little packet" of work to send with their children on vacation and get full credit for the class time missed. That person also said it is impossible for children to complete all lessons that is to be done in school on vacation/holiday. The response also said that he/she tells parents upfront that taking their children on a non-holiday that they will not past tests and cannot catch up on the work missed. Students, upon return, ask to be excused from testing because of this. The one PARENT said that it's worth it to take their children during the off-peak to get away from the crowds. This person goes on to say that all you have to do is just tell the school in advance that the family is going on vacation.
Basically, teachers are not happy with this type of parenting method. Is a child's vacation (ease of large crowds during the non-peak) more important than their learning. As a college professor, I cannot relate to elementary or high school teachers level but I believe that they do miss out on some learning activities. [msnembarrased]I admit, I have taken my daughter out of school for a week to go on vacation in the past and I didn't think it was a big deal but apparently it is to some teachers. I thought this was an interesting topic to discuss. What do you guys think about this?
Sorry for rambling...
I've always taken my kids out of school to go to Disney early at Christmas...... both when I lived in England and the USA...the schools have always been fine with it..I ask for homework but teachers just tell the kids to have fun....
florida4sun
06-12-2003, 07:42
Never did me or my kids any harm. I think while they young no problem. Gets more tricky the older they get. But then one of my children has been of school for 3 months now and will not return till after Xmas. So if we listen to teachers who whine on about the odd week, it means he has no chance of any education whatsover[msnscared].
In practice I have found that good teachers think its a good thing. Those who are not up to the job will make a big deal out of it.
Martin
quote:Originally posted by Amirah
How do you guys feel about taking your children out of school to go on vacation during the non-peak times of the year?
I was reading in the Walt Disney World Unofficial Guide about this very subject. There were two teacher comments and one parent comment. TEACHERS were saying that parents expect to get a "nice little packet" of work to send with their children on vacation and get full credit for the class time missed. That person also said it is impossible for children to complete all lessons that is to be done in school on vacation/holiday. The response also said that he/she tells parents upfront that taking their children on a non-holiday that they will not past tests and cannot catch up on the work missed. Students, upon return, ask to be excused from testing because of this. The one PARENT said that it's worth it to take their children during the off-peak to get away from the crowds. This person goes on to say that all you have to do is just tell the school in advance that the family is going on vacation.
Basically, teachers are not happy with this type of parenting method. Is a child's vacation (ease of large crowds during the non-peak) more important than their learning. As a college professor, I cannot relate to elementary or high school teachers level but I believe that they do miss out on some learning activities. [msnembarrased]I admit, I have taken my daughter out of school for a week to go on vacation in the past and I didn't think it was a big deal but apparently it is to some teachers. I thought this was an interesting topic to discuss. What do you guys think about this?
Sorry for rambling...
Are you allowed to take kids out of school in the US?? In the UK, you are allowed to take 10 days out of school holiday time annually by law but it is getting more and more difficult to actually take it. Since the school league tables started up, you can be made to feel like a paragon for taking your kids out of school and jeopardising your schools attendance position in the league tables, At least that is the way I felt with my last child, I was constantly getting hassled for bringing him to Orlando out of school holiday. I never had any problems with the older two As to whether they miss too much schooling, well it really depends on the age of the child. Older children working towards exams on continual assessment maybe more than young kids. I used to try for the last week of term ( ie just before they break up) as a good bet as these are usually slack periods rather than taking a week off in the middle of term when more work may be missed.
quote:Originally posted by florida4sun
In practice I have found that good teachers think its a good thing. Those who are not up to the job will make a big deal out of it.
Martin
It has absolutely nothing to do with whether a teacher is good at his/her job or not. Taking a child out of school for a 1, 2 or 3 week holiday is disruptive to the child, the class and the teacher. Not once, in the years that I taught, was I ever asked by either a parent or a child for work for the child's holiday!! The parents always seemed to assume that little Johnny would "catch up" when he got back to school!! The older the child, then the more difficult that becomes, to the point where it is almost impossible for many children. For the 14-16 age group with external examinations, the amount of work covered in a 2 week period, in every subject, is great, so these kids have a real uphill task facing them, just because of a holiday. I feel really sorry for kids of this age when they are deliberately taken out of school.
Very few children go through a whole year without any absences for illness, so when you start adding holidays on top, for some kids this can represent quite a lot of missed schooling. Whole topics are often missed out completely because they were covered while the child was away on holiday and the exact skills/knowledge that the child has missed are not readily apparent until either that teacher or the next teacher tries to build on those skills at a later date. Each year is a building block that the next year is built upon and if little bits of the blocks are missing then by the time the child is in high school the gaping holes really show themselves.
The vast majority of children only have a handful of days off each year due to illness and these are generally spread throughout the year. It is the fact that children on holiday are taking a single block of time that is the real problem. The same number of days spread across the year would not have anywhere near the same impact.
Good schools and good teachers have always frowned on parents removing a child during term time but could do nothing about it, so had to make the best of it. Times have changed since you were in the UK, Martin. Now many State schools actively discourage parents from taking children on holiday during term-time and refuse permission and will mark any children who are absent for this reason as unauthorised absentees which is akin to being marked down as a truant. The family could then be investigated by the Educational Welfare Officers. Also many of the sort-after State schools have Parent/Pupil/School contracts and make it abundantly clear before the child joins the school that time off for a holiday is not permitted.
At the end of the day the parents have to decide what is best for their child. However, if it's OK for that child to miss one week of school, then surely two weeks wouldn't be so bad, would it? And then again while going for two weeks, it's going to cost almost the same to go for three weeks.......
At what point, or length of holiday time, do you call a halt??????? Should parents, whose only experience of education is as a pupil, be the ones making the decision???
Also if you have a large family then it is quite simply impossible to go on holiday at end of term as the cost is staggering. For my part we only go away every other year and as it is very difficult to get annual leave out of term we do take our boys out of school but never when they have exams
athurstance
06-12-2003, 13:36
We have taken our children out of school when they were younger and personally I don't see the harm. We never had a problem with their primary school agreeing to it - usually an extra week added onto the half-term holiday. I do know people who have been refused when asking for more than a week at the same school though.
Now the boys have moved up to their new school though it is a real 'no-no' - the school make it quite clear they don't approve of it and we should take our holidays in the school holidays. Its not absolutely cast in stone though as I do know people who have taken their kids out but it does put the majority off which I guess is the intention. For some people they really do have no choice so you have to have some flexibility.
We are officially going to the 6 term year from 2005 which I think is an excellent idea and should make it much easier to spread holidays.
Due to ill-health my youngest daughter has only attended school for 3/4 days a week most of this term. We have the school's blessing to take her out a week before the end of term to have a good rest in Florida. We have had the uttmost support from the school and staff and they have helped ensure she has got her course work done.
As she has started her GSCE course this is not something we would normally do, but we are hoping a long relaxing holiday will help boost her energy and immune levels so she can cope with normal school next term.
She has a mock GCSE on the first day back at school so there is no question of her not doing school work during the holiday. Some of her tutors also set additional work for her to do during her days at home.
Beverley
06-12-2003, 16:44
I think it depends on the age and ability of the child. A child of 5 missing perhaps a week at school, in my opinion, won't cause much harm. However towards the end of the infant and junior years, it will be more disruptive to the childs education. Once the child is at senior level then I think it is an absolute no no. They miss to much.
Having said that my sons miss lessons frequently due to school sports fixtures. During the summer they play cricket twice a week and have athletic meetings for school. During school time.
The school also expects them to be available every Saturday for sports fixtures.
It is the schools responsibility to ensure that the pupil is given all the relevent work that they will have missed during the absence from lessons.
Consequently they frequently have stacks of work to catch up on, which has to be done as well as homework. If they can't cope they don't play.
They both have learned how to plan their time and they cope very well. If we we're to take them out of school for a holiday (which we would not do)I am confident they would be able to catch up.
It depends on the child.
chrizzy100
06-12-2003, 18:09
quote:Originally posted by esprit
Are you allowed to take kids out of school in the US?? In the UK, you are allowed to take 10 days out of school holiday time annually by law but it is getting more and more difficult to actually take it. Since the school league tables started up, you can be made to feel like a paragon for taking your kids out of school and jeopardising your schools attendance position in the league tables, At least that is the way I felt with my last child, I was constantly getting hassled for bringing him to Orlando out of school holiday. I never had any problems with the older two As to whether they miss too much schooling, well it really depends on the age of the child. Older children working towards exams on continual assessment maybe more than young kids. I used to try for the last week of term ( ie just before they break up) as a good bet as these are usually slack periods rather than taking a week off in the middle of term when more work may be missed.
I think its up to the school......my sons school have a set program....its a tech school two weeks school work...two weeks shop.....so they have after school time to catch up and summer school if they take time off in school time.....but most of the teachers seems OK with it....
In England my daughter had 3 weeks off to travel around the USA and Canada....when she got back they were doing American history....and everytime the teacher talked about a State or a place she had just been there....she took in lots of things from her travels and took the class for a few months....telling everyone first hand about the place where everyone else could only read books and see films about it....it got her a top grade.....
The first time we took the children to Florida, only one was in school (aged 5) and we did take him in term time. We took a blank exercise book with us and turned it into a daily diary for our child to complete on a daily basis with his favourite parts of the previous day and added mementoes of where he had been. He really looked forward to writing up his day, it considerably improved his handwriting, we helped with his spelling and he brought back a colourful and personal reminder of the holiday, which he proudly presented to his class in 'Show and Tell'. His teacher was very complimentary and remarked about how much hard work and effort he had put in during a holiday.
We have always added a week onto the half terms in May and October, never had a problem. But
now Emily is at Senior school and Wifey now works for a school. We cant do that anymore.
The only reason we did this was it made the holidays affordable. The schools round here, well
the better ones now make you re-apply for your childs place if you take them out in term time.
Not sure if this is legal, and havent heard of anyone falling foul yet. Mind you they are starting to change to the 6 term year next year, which means the summer holiday will be
heavily reduced, and the half terms increased. As we now have a holiday home it means the
kids and wife can go away more for 2 week holidays during the year.
allyneil
06-12-2003, 22:53
We have sometimes stretched the holidays by 2-3 days but usually get a package of work from the School. Normally the school is not happy with this on the basis that it disrupts the rest of the class if they have to recap for kids that were out on holiday and our kids lose out as well.
I can understand this and would really try and avoid taking the kids out of school if I can help it, the older they are the more important it is to keep them in school.
Neil
cyclefan88
06-12-2003, 23:16
The new trend that schools are taking in the US is that they try to stagger the school breaks to limit some of the overcrowding and expensive premiums for vacations.
Many Americans also take more frequent/less lengthy trips, they like to combine vacations around weekends stretching it to 3-4 days.
Although I havent taken my kids out of school aside from a day here and there. I agree that when they are younger it would not hurt them but it gets much more difficult when they are older. Our school district here in New Jersey is very competitive with most kids applying to top tier colleges, many children enroll in after school classes to keep up with other kids. I'm glad I'm not a kid anymore it's gotten so much harder :(
steph_goodrum
06-12-2003, 23:21
We kept our 17 year old off for a week after half term a couple of weeks ago (she's doing A levels) and when I went to parent s evening on Thursday all her teachers told me she had caught up all the work she missed (only 1 gave it to her before we went) and had acheived higher marks than those who were in class for the lessons. We have only ever taken her a couple of times when fixed events have made it impossible to plan around. I think if you know your child and know their capabilities and attitude you know whether they will lose out or not.
Our son's school adopt the attitude that education is more than just books. Last Christmas we asked if it was okay to take him out of school for a week and they were fine about it, even though his GCSE mocks began as soon as he got back. Considering he got 8 grade A's it can't have harmed him too much. Also we have noticed that some schools try to make parents feel very bad about taking children off school yet my other son missed 3 weeks of lessons in one school year due to various 'offical' school trips taken on school days and surprisingly enough his school thought that was perfectly fine
You forget about the new culture of teacher training days that now seem to be then norm
Julie asked if kids were allowed to be taken out of school in the US. Yes - children are allowed to be taken out of school for a family vacation, but how it's dealt with will differ from school to school and teacher to teacher. I have taken my kids out for a few days (4 at the most) to extend a long week-end into an opportunity to get away!!
My children are all excellent students and I always have them do their schoolwork while we're away so it has never posed a problem for them whatsoever (even if the teacher won't give them their work ahead of time, we take all the school books with us and just continue on - they're usually ahead by the time we return!!). However, as they are getting older, I can see that it isn't so easy to do this anymore and am starting to accept the fact that those mid-school year trips have come to an end!!
Here in the US, in my state of New Jersey, I just have to let the school know how long my child will be out of school for vacation. I agree with Moses (cyclefan88) about Americans taking more frequent trips but lesser days for vacation. The longest we go for vacation is 7 days to Orlando, nothing more. But we go on about 3 to 4 trips a year on the weekends and stretch it to Monday. I didn't think of this as being an issue but it is a very big one. My daughter is 8 and I do believe that when she gets to junior highschool that we will not be able to go on vacation like we want (in the off-peak or when the weather is good).
Also, I thought about this topic again today. If my students miss 3 full days of classes the University fails them and tardiness equals half a day absent. But that is on a much more complicated level. My husband said that he never thought about the teachers in the situation. They have to go back to work they have taught already to accomodate our children.
I think that children do deserve time away with family when it's affordable. I believe that parents and teachers need to work together more on a solution.
phil moloney
07-12-2003, 03:19
Full attendance is not necessary for a good acedemic education, although it may keep a teacher or school happy. The complete school curriculum can be taught in a fraction of the school year. A long period away from school can be disruptive to a child, to the social aspect of their education more than to their actual school work. Although I have been told by teachers that where a family can relax together, in their opinion it is the most important thing. I don't do it very often because the school year in private schools in Eire is short. Our kids have 13 weeks off in the summer and 6 in total for Xmas easter and midterms. + bank holidays + inservice and sports + fun days. The UK kids spend too much time at school, I think the same applies to US and parts of Europe are worse. In fact I would go as far as saying it is a concern that your kids don't have enough time to chill out with their family and friends! I have no doubt the teachers (no offence meant to teachers) have so much time off they feel holidays should be enough!
Sunnysider
08-12-2003, 01:56
What I would be interested to know is how the parents would feel if the teacher were to take two weeks off in term time to go on holiday?...
We are going to Florida for Christmas for our honeymoon. My Fiance is a teacher which means that if we want to get married on a Saturday and go away for two weeks afterwards there are only 6 days in the year, 1 at Christmas and Easter, and 4 in the summer when this is possible.
We are getting married on 20 December and going to Orlando on 22nd. Although we have the 'bonus' of being there for Christmas we are not actually that bothered about it being Christmas as for us it is a honeymoon. As a result we have to pay an extra premium to go at that time of year and have the busiest crowds to attend with. We would have loved to have gone two weeks earlier when the parks were empty and they were nearly giving holidays away, but unfortunately that was not possible. In addition we were not able to have the full two weeks away as the school would not allow my Fiance to take one days holiday during school time.
What makes it even worse and rubs her face in it is that a girl in her class is going in January and has been allowed her 10 days off, and my Fiance has to spend some of her own time in addition to what she normally has to do preparing work especially for that child.
Sorry to rant but it really gets my back up when people are quite happy to take children out of school - and to be honest I don't blame them the cost savings are huge, but, a teacher can't have one day off as part of their honeymoon.
without wanting to say something wrong here, Teachers I agree are not allowed holidays in
term time and perhaps thats wrong or is it ?
Teachers though do get upto 14 weeks holiday a year, plus these new found 6+ training days that
some are not really training days. Parents dont get these.
So you could argue with all that time off, they have enough already.
Sunnysider
08-12-2003, 11:09
So surley if Teachers have enough time of during school holidays then so do the children and there is no need for them to have extra either. That is exactly my point its not fair if one can have it but the other can't.
The problem with teachers holidays is that it is so inflexible. You might have a legitimate reason for wanting a day off during term time, to attend a wedding or funeral or to move house and yet you would not be allowed it.
In addition whilst it might seem that they get a lot of holiday any 'good' teacher would be sepending near on half of that working either preparing lessons, or recovering from the 12hour + days that they do during term time.
steph_goodrum
08-12-2003, 11:49
Sunnysider
My husband is a carpenter and his days are very rarely less than 12 hours but he only has 4 weeks to recover from that na dhis spare time is spent pricing jobs, ordering & collecting materials, preparing invoices , chasing money that has not been paid etc so teachers don't have exclusivety when it comes to working outside designated hours.
The difference between the children and teachers though is that the teachers agreed to a paid contract to work those dates and teach the class, in hte same way my brother works as a care assistant and agreed to be available 365 days a year on a rota system and in the 9 years he has been doing the job has never spent a full Christmas day with his 11 and 8 year old sons. This year again his Christmas dinner will be spent with the clients at the home having watched the boys open their presents and then into work. He doesn't complain as he said he knew the terms and agreed when he took the job.
As for teachers not being able to take time off with a good reason such as a funeral etc I have known several occasions when my daughter and nephews teachers have been off for unexpected events, as they should , it is the planned that they are expected to fit into their holiday allowance, which is as it should be, in my opinion.
Sunnysider,
I do feel that your fiance should be able to take time off for a honeymoon - this is a special circumstance and not just a vacation. Surely, there are substitutes that can step in. The downside of this, however, is that she would certainly pay for it with tons of preparation before she goes and lots of catch up when she returns!!
Phil,
I agree with what you said about children spending way too much time in school. I really feel very down in the dumps when the end of August arrives and my children have to go back to school. I sincerely feel that I am giving them up for 9 months as they have very few breaks during that time. With homework, sports and activities, I feel I get very little good quality time with them during the school year. When we have taken them out for a few days to allow for a trip, we have had teachers say to us just what you have been told - this family time together is very important! Sadly, though, as my oldest approaches highschool I can see that I won't be able to have that mid school year opportunity to become "reacquainted" with my children anymore!!
quote:Originally posted by Sunnysider
So surley if Teachers have enough time of during school holidays then so do the children and there is no need for them to have extra either.
Yes the children do, but as a parent, you try getting holiday in the
school holidays, everyone else also wants the time off and so you
have to take whats left, and sometimes there is none, in which case
you have to either not have a holiday or have one in term time
Surely there has to be some middle ground. Curriculae that perhaps have lighter periods at set times of the year - for the school show before Christmas, summer sports and trips restricted to June just before the summer holidays. Then parents could choose to use this time for family holidays. Missing a few days before a school holiday is unlikely to do any harm as most are winding down anyway, but three weeks mid term when new concepts are being taught - even for the younger ones - surely can't be justified. This must be disruptive for the child, the class and the teacher. The other thing is staggering school holidays - in Scotland we now have 2 weeks in October with a slightly shorter summer break (good reason to put the October rates up?) and this allows us to get away at reasonable cost (my wife is a teacher so we are restricted to school holidays - and yes several weeks of her holiday is used up in prep - we even go visiting school supply shops in Orlando because you just dont get them in the UK...).
England is changing the school holiday system next year, it starts in london but the idea
is that once one borough makes the change, then one by one it will change all over the country.
Im sure it starts next year with Easter always being the first 2 weeks of April, Then the
following year the summer holiday is reduced, the October and May holidays are increased etc.
I have a leaflet somewhere that has it all listed
So, what's the solution? Is there one? If we can't get good rates or the time during a school holiday then what do we do? Some complain when we remove our children from school when we find a good rate and the time when school is in session. I think this is a no end. When I plan a trip I take into account the weather, the cost, the time of year and the availabilty of services at my destination. Like I said before, this is a bigger issue than I thought.
quote: So surley if Teachers have enough time of during school holidays then so do the children and there is no need for them to have extra either.
Isn't the whole point that if you take one child out of school, this doesn't disrupt a whole class? Having one teacher out during term time disrupts how many childrens' education, 20, 25, 30 or may be more?
I agree with Steph in that I worked more Bank holidays over very many years than I care to remember but that went with the job and I knew and agreed that when I started my career.
Also, I had many staff who had school age children and, of course, everyone wanted the same school holiday time off work for their holiday. Sometimes too, their partners were told which two weeks they could have because where they worked just shut down for that time. Unfortunately, it wasn't possible to have all my staff off at the same time so they were told they couldn't have the dates they wanted. We eventually used a rota system where everyone who wanted school holidays off took turns every few years to get that time. These people got three just three weeks holiday a year, not 12 or 14!
florida4sun
09-12-2003, 03:40
Sorry got to disagree. Anyone has a choice about which career they should take and the rules that go with it. Teachers get more than enough holiday and it would effect the whole class and school if they were to take time off during term.
Take my job for instance, I am on call 24 hours 365 days a year (even if we vacation). Is that a pain to me? Sometimes yes. Do I complain about it? No, its what I choose to do.
I have been in jobs before where I diod not like the vacation time, so i left.
Martin
quote:Originally posted by Sunnysider
What I would be interested to know is how the parents would feel if the teacher were to take two weeks off in term time to go on holiday?...
We are going to Florida for Christmas for our honeymoon. My Fiance is a teacher which means that if we want to get married on a Saturday and go away for two weeks afterwards there are only 6 days in the year, 1 at Christmas and Easter, and 4 in the summer when this is possible.
We are getting married on 20 December and going to Orlando on 22nd. Although we have the 'bonus' of being there for Christmas we are not actually that bothered about it being Christmas as for us it is a honeymoon. As a result we have to pay an extra premium to go at that time of year and have the busiest crowds to attend with. We would have loved to have gone two weeks earlier when the parks were empty and they were nearly giving holidays away, but unfortunately that was not possible. In addition we were not able to have the full two weeks away as the school would not allow my Fiance to take one days holiday during school time.
What makes it even worse and rubs her face in it is that a girl in her class is going in January and has been allowed her 10 days off, and my Fiance has to spend some of her own time in addition to what she normally has to do preparing work especially for that child.
Sorry to rant but it really gets my back up when people are quite happy to take children out of school - and to be honest I don't blame them the cost savings are huge, but, a teacher can't have one day off as part of their honeymoon.
chrizzy100
09-12-2003, 04:35
quote:Originally posted by phil moloney
Full attendance is not necessary for a good acedemic education, although it may keep a teacher or school happy. The complete school curriculum can be taught in a fraction of the school year. A long period away from school can be disruptive to a child, to the social aspect of their education more than to their actual school work. Although I have been told by teachers that where a family can relax together, in their opinion it is the most important thing. I don't do it very often because the school year in private schools in Eire is short. Our kids have 13 weeks off in the summer and 6 in total for Xmas easter and midterms. + bank holidays + inservice and sports + fun days. The UK kids spend too much time at school, I think the same applies to US and parts of Europe are worse. In fact I would go as far as saying it is a concern that your kids don't have enough time to chill out with their family and friends! I have no doubt the teachers (no offence meant to teachers) have so much time off they feel holidays should be enough!
My son gets 10 or 11 weeks off for summer....if they take no snow days its 5 days longer....I think its far to much time off at one time...its not so bad now when he can work in the summer holidays and get extra credit for his shop classes...but he was so bored before that..
florida4sun
09-12-2003, 04:37
In my experience (which is high is this case). It is very much down to wether or not a teacher is good at their job. The only times my kids grades have dropped is when they have gone through a class with an excuse of a teacher. This has happened twice and both teachers were very anti vacation time. All other teachers have been great and when we have taken kids out, work had been given out automaticly. We have not had to ask for it. My kids have had more time off than most and still they have excellent grades. Travel has given them a hunger for information and given them great confidence. I only wish I had had these opportunities when I was at school, the so called educational school trips were useless and boring. I also had (with one exception) a bunch of losers teaching me:( Interested in nobody but themselves and the top level students.
No one knows their child more than a parent (although some teachers will tell you different) and only a parent would know wether or not. does anyone know a child who has not taken vacation time??? I do not.
quote:Originally posted by Carla
[quote]quote:Originally posted by florida4sun
In practice I have found that good teachers think its a good thing. Those who are not up to the job will make a big deal out of it.
Martin
It has absolutely nothing to do with whether a teacher is good at his/her job or not. Taking a child out of school for a 1, 2 or 3 week holiday is disruptive to the child, the class and the teacher. Not once, in the years that I taught, was I ever asked by either a parent or a child for work for the child's holiday!! The parents always seemed to assume that little Johnny would "catch up" when he got back to school!! The older the child, then the more difficult that becomes, to the point where it is almost impossible for many children. For the 14-16 age group with external examinations, the amount of work covered in a 2 week period, in every subject, is great, so these kids have a real uphill task facing them, just because of a holiday. I feel really sorry for kids of this age when they are deliberately taken out of school.
Very few children go through a whole year without any absences for illness, so when you start adding holidays on top, for some kids this can represent quite a lot of missed schooling. Whole topics are often missed out completely because they were covered while the child was away on holiday and the exact skills/knowledge that the child has missed are not readily apparent until either that teacher or the next teacher tries to build on those skills at a later date. Each year is a building block that the next year is built upon and if little bits of the blocks are missing then by the time the child is in high school the gaping holes really show themselves.
The vast majority of children only have a handful of days off each year due to illness and these are generally spread throughout the year. It is the fact that children on holiday are taking a single block of time that is the real problem. The same number of days spread across the year would not have anywhere near the same impact.
Good schools and good teachers have always frowned on parents removing a child during term time but could do nothing about it, so had to make the best of it. Times have changed since you were in the UK, Martin. Now many State schools actively discourage parents from taking children on holiday during term-time and refuse permission and will mark any children who are absent for this reason as unauthorised absentees which is akin to being marked down as a truant. The family could then be investigated by the Educational Welfare Officers. Also many of the sort-after State schools have Parent/Pupil/School contracts and
chrizzy100
09-12-2003, 04:39
quote:Originally posted by Sunnysider
What I would be interested to know is how the parents would feel if the teacher were to take two weeks off in term time to go on holiday?...
We are going to Florida for Christmas for our honeymoon. My Fiance is a teacher which means that if we want to get married on a Saturday and go away for two weeks afterwards there are only 6 days in the year, 1 at Christmas and Easter, and 4 in the summer when this is possible.
We are getting married on 20 December and going to Orlando on 22nd. Although we have the 'bonus' of being there for Christmas we are not actually that bothered about it being Christmas as for us it is a honeymoon. As a result we have to pay an extra premium to go at that time of year and have the busiest crowds to attend with. We would have loved to have gone two weeks earlier when the parks were empty and they were nearly giving holidays away, but unfortunately that was not possible. In addition we were not able to have the full two weeks away as the school would not allow my Fiance to take one days holiday during school time.
What makes it even worse and rubs her face in it is that a girl in her class is going in January and has been allowed her 10 days off, and my Fiance has to spend some of her own time in addition to what she normally has to do preparing work especially for that child.
Sorry to rant but it really gets my back up when people are quite happy to take children out of school - and to be honest I don't blame them the cost savings are huge, but, a teacher can't have one day off as part of their honeymoon.
My sons English teacher is on holiday in England right now.....I never give it a second thought that he should not be able to do that.......
florida4sun
09-12-2003, 04:49
The problem is with the parents not being able to take vacations in the summer due to their line of work. We are unable to vacation during the summer.
Martin
quote:Originally posted by Sunnysider
So surley if Teachers have enough time of during school holidays then so do the children and there is no need for them to have extra either. That is exactly my point its not fair if one can have it but the other can't.
The problem with teachers holidays is that it is so inflexible. You might have a legitimate reason for wanting a day off during term time, to attend a wedding or funeral or to move house and yet you would not be allowed it.
In addition whilst it might seem that they get a lot of holiday any 'good' teacher would be sepending near on half of that working either preparing lessons, or recovering from the 12hour + days that they do during term time.
cyclefan88
09-12-2003, 06:28
quote:Originally posted by Amirah
So, what's the solution? Is there one? If we can't get good rates or the time during a school holiday then what do we do? Some complain when we remove our children from school when we find a good rate and the time when school is in session. I think this is a no end. When I plan a trip I take into account the weather, the cost, the time of year and the availabilty of services at my destination. Like I said before, this is a bigger issue than I thought.
I dont think there are any clear cut solutions. Too many factors involved. The bottom line is if you take the kids out of school would it affect their grades, some kids handle the absence better than others, you'd be the only one to know :)
Lesley S
09-12-2003, 12:04
Totally agree with everything that Martin says. I've no hesitation in taking my daughter from school even my stelp children have been taken out of school and one of them got 10 O'levels all grade A's.
As it was said, it all depends on whether the teachers are good at their jobs.
One thing no-one has mentioned is the difference, teachers are adults they have had their childhood, children are but children for a short time and it should be savoured and made as memorable and enjoyable as we as parents can possibly make it I dont advocate taking holidays all over the school year as it is important as well but so is quality time with the whole family as well and when both your parents work full time all year you take your holidays when you can get them which as others has said has to fit in with the rest of the company's rota as well it would be an ideal world if we like teachers could take time off when our children are off but that is not possible for most of us
As for taking time off for your honeymoon I have known lots of teachers take time off during the school year when they have a special occasion, in my experience most do not want to lose any of their normal wage by doing this so they stick to the school holidays which is paid leave which is fair enough but you can not complain when you get 16 weeks off not including training days as well and as Martin said you choose the job you take what you get
phil moloney
09-12-2003, 18:08
The happier a child is the greater the opportunity of achievement. tough talking Martin! I agree with all you say!
Each adult is not only an expert in their own job, but is automatically a teaching expert too, simply because they sat on one side of a desk for a few years!! That's fine - teacher's have lived with that for many, many years and nothing anyone says will change your perceptions. However, I just have to jump in here and let you know what life is really like!!!
When I taught, I had never worked so hard in my life and certainly haven't worked as hard since I left teaching. I was in school for 8am and out again at 4.30pm if I was lucky and didn't have a Club that I was doing that night, otherwise it was more likely 5.30pm. I didn't get lunch breaks either, except for one day a week, because I ran lunchtime Computer Clubs. Then I'd get home, get my own kids from the minder, chat with them, prepare dinner, put the kids to bed and start work again about 8pm when they were safely tucked up. If I was lucky I would finish my marking, preparation etc. at around 11pm to midnight. During mocks and in the Spring term it might take longer as the kids could put in extra pieces or revamp pieces and I would need to mark them again, ready for their exam folders, so that the kids could choose their very best pieces of work to be examined on. Sometimes I'd fall asleep over someone's folder!!
Just about every working day I was putting in between 12 and 13 hours work. So in a 5 day week I did, on average 60 hours plus time at the weekends as well. Most professionals (with degrees) have a 32.5 working week, so my week was not far off double that of comparable professionals. My contemporaries, in other professions, got a minimum of 4 weeks paid holiday plus all statutory Bank holidays, which adds up to another 8 days. So they had nearly 6 weeks holiday altogether which they could take whenever they chose.
As a teacher I had an extra 8 weeks away from school!! Wow!!! If you do the Maths then you'll realise that I had continuously worked a 60 hour week for 38 weeks in the year. So even with 14 weeks away from the children I was still working around 70 weeks in a 52 week year!!!! Is it any wonder that so many teachers are burnt out by the time they are in their early 50s and end up leaving the job through stress and ill-health?
I quit teaching to get my family life back again. I saw a great deal of other people's kids and very little of my own. I had hardly had any time to spend with my husband and no social life to speak of. Even running my own business and building that up, was easier, less time-consuming and less exhausting, than teaching.
Everyone will be able to remember a lazy teacher or one who wasn't good at his/her job, but every profession has those and they are always in the minority. The vast majority of teachers are incredibly hard working and dedicated individuals who have the kids' interests at heart.
Take your children out of school for a holiday, if it suits you. The law says that you can, for up to 10 school days per year. However, don't justify doing it by saying that 'good teachers' will always think that this is fine - many don't (unless under exceptional circumstances) - and this has everything to do with educational reasons and nothing whatsoever to do with sour grapes.
chrizzy100
09-12-2003, 20:23
quote:Originally posted by Carla
Each adult is not only an expert in their own job, but is automatically a teaching expert too, simply because they sat on one side of a desk for a few years!! That's fine - teacher's have lived with that for many, many years and nothing anyone says will change your perceptions. However, I just have to jump in here and let you know what life is really like!!!
When I taught, I had never worked so hard in my life and certainly haven't worked as hard since I left teaching. I was in school for 8am and out again at 4.30pm if I was lucky and didn't have a Club that I was doing that night, otherwise it was more likely 5.30pm. I didn't get lunch breaks either, except for one day a week, because I ran lunchtime Computer Clubs. Then I'd get home, get my own kids from the minder, chat with them, prepare dinner, put the kids to bed and start work again about 8pm when they were safely tucked up. If I was lucky I would finish my marking, preparation etc. at around 11pm to midnight. During mocks and in the Spring term it might take longer as the kids could put in extra pieces or revamp pieces and I would need to mark them again, ready for their exam folders, so that the kids could choose their very best pieces of work to be examined on. Sometimes I'd fall asleep over someone's folder!!
Just about every working day I was putting in between 12 and 13 hours work. So in a 5 day week I did, on average 60 hours plus time at the weekends as well. Most professionals (with degrees) have a 32.5 working week, so my week was not far off double that of comparable professionals. My contemporaries, in other professions, got a minimum of 4 weeks paid holiday plus all statutory Bank holidays, which adds up to another 8 days. So they had nearly 6 weeks holiday altogether which they could take whenever they chose.
As a teacher I had an extra 8 weeks away from school!! Wow!!! If you do the Maths then you'll realise that I had continuously worked a 60 hour week for 38 weeks in the year. So even with 14 weeks away from the children I was still working around 70 weeks in a 52 week year!!!! Is it any wonder that so many teachers are burnt out by the time they are in their early 50s and end up leaving the job through stress and ill-health?
I quit teaching to get my family life back again. I saw a great deal of other people's kids and very little of my own. I had hardly had any time to spend with my husband and no social life to speak of. Even running my own business and building that up, was easier, less time-consuming and less exhausting, than teaching.
Everyone will be able to remember a lazy teacher or one who wasn't good at his/her job, but every profession has those and they are always in the minority. The vast majority of teachers are incredibly hard working and dedicated individuals who have the kids' interests at heart.
Take your children out of school for a holiday, if it suits you. The law says that you can, for up to 10 school days per year. However, don't justify doing it by saying that 'good teachers' will always think that this is fine - many don't (unless under exceptional circumstances) - and this has everything to do with educational reasons and nothing whatsoever to do with sour grapes.
The first job offer I had here was an asst teacher post.....7:30 till 6:00 no breaks....no healthcare.....and still working summer school if needed.....:(
Its not easy working in a school...before that I only looked after pre school....I was also a teachers aid at one time for 2 years....
But I think kids learn a lot while away....and if the only way you can afford to have a break as a family is in term time.....then so be it.....
I've never had any trouble with any teachers or school in 18 years of doing this......in England and the USA......
We are I think just talk
Carla,
I can relate to you in a big way, but I have more flexibility because I teach students over 18. With the school policies in mind, I give my expectations to my students (in your case, the parents) about what is to happen during in the semester, how I grade and the attendance policy. Then, it is up to the parents or students to make decisions for themselves. I think that teachers should let parents know up front about what is expected of the children and how they run their classrooms. As an instructor I don't get stressed about anything because I'm there to do one thing. Teach! Teach the material and to make sure that my students get a little of each lesson throughout my time with them.
My daugther is 8 years old and since I understand her school work and what is to come for her we don't have any problems with her not doing well if we go on vacation. There is always going to be slow, medium and fast learning children. I don't think that a week entirely throws off a full year of school for a child.
I wouldn't dream of being a highschool or elementary school teacher because I know what they go through. :(
cyclefan88
09-12-2003, 22:16
Amirah:
Dont you have the luxury of Teacher's Assitants at the college level :D
By the way which college do you instruct? I live in NJ as well.
Was going to say something, but typed it out and it seemed negative and as your all sort of my
internet mates Thought better of it, hope thats ok
:):):)
Thomas Edison and Rugters. Unfortunately, I don't have any TA's assigned to what I teach.
cyclefan88
11-12-2003, 20:33
I did my undergraduate work at Rutgers. It has changed alot since I graduated there. I will be taking my son to Piscataway this weekend for a 2 day swim meet.
My opinion is that as said before only you know your child and for my part my boys grades have never changed from the year we pull them for 10 days and the years we don`t.
I have not read all the 'posts' so I could be repeating someyhing already said, if so I apologise.
I have been married to a teacher for almost 25 years now, she started off in Junior and now does infants. Secondary school teachers , of which we know many, have it far easier but even then it is not a job I would like to do. 75 hr weeks during term time plus days going in during the holidays, having to get married, move ect in holiday time, paying an illegal amount of money to go away on holiday, it is no wonder they lose so many teachers from the profession. It is also no wonder so many parents take their children out of school to go away on holiday especially as they can say 50% of what it would cost in holiday time. My wife accepts that parents will do this nad does not blame them one bit. The Government should be putting something in place to stop holiday companines and airlines 'hiking' up their prices at these times.
Paul
I don't know what governments can do to regulate these companies but it's not going to stop parents from removing their children from school to go on vacation. Every country is different. Even in the US, every state is different. We were just now able to take our cellular phone numbers and transfer them to other providers if we want to keep our same number. Having the government looking into something like "liesure" time will take years and years.
Amirah,
I am suprised sometimes at things in the US compared to the UK. We have had number portability (not only for land lines but mobiles) for a number of years now.
Yes I agree I don't think governments will do anything about it, probably scared at upsetting the airlines and tour companies.
Paul
Hi all,
Been reading all the comments and finding it a very interesting subject.
Just a few comments from a Dane and therefore from a country where we only start school at the age of 6 or 7 !! I don't see any difference in the level of education between say Denmark and UK come the end of GCSE's or even A levels. Some would even say it helps children being allowed to stay kids for longer as it helps form stronger ties to the family etc. - just an observation.
Personally it sits uneasy with me to start children as young as 4, as we have had to do with our son 6 months ago, in school - it is as if they start working life when they don that uniform for the first time.
I tend to agree with Martin and Phil Moloney's views and would not hesitate taking my children out of school - lets see how they get on..
Carla - I hear you loud and clear, but I think you need to modify your view on how much others work. In my time (nearly 20 years) in the financial world in the City of London the working hours have always been 10+ hours a day = a minimum of 12 hours away from home, 5 days a week plus travel and from time to time weekend work as well. I know my colleagues around the world works the same amount of hours if not more - degree or no degree.
All this with 5 weeks holiday.... so yes an extra 8 weeks WOW !!!!
I can only echo "You make your bed, you better lie in it....."
Happy New Year to everyone,
TOM
I think that nowaday children should be in the habit of doing consistent school work by the ages of 6 or 7 years old, not just beginning. This teaches them responsibility at an early and it's good for them to be around children their ages. In Egypt, where I was born and raised, education starts early as it does in the United States where I now reside. Formal education started with me from as far back as I can remember. I remember my mother teaching my little brother how to speak before he took his first steps. I, too, have started the education process with my daughter when she was 2 years old.
The point is that I do not think that sending children to school at the age of 4 or less takes away from their childhood. Personally, children at young ages should be exposed to some type of educational studies, they should be able to socialize with others culturally (other than family) and have a strong sense of family values as well. This is just my opinion.
SusieDozOrlando
31-12-2003, 21:24
I wanted to comment on this particular subject.
It often appalls me the two-facedness of English schools. Constantly we are being told by schools what bad parents we are if we take our children out of school. Yet has anyone given thought to how many 'inset' days we are required to swallow as part of their national curriculum? Days where us parents have to run around like headless chickens because there are no after school clubs to have our kids while we still have to work. If you take into consideration the average parent's income, coupled with the fact that we have to pay after school care for our kids, and 'inset' days because our workplaces don't recognise this....as well as only having four weeks a year to cram in holidays, christmas, kids sick days, I think it's a bloody cheek for schools to moan about any parent wanting or needing a cheap holiday during the school year.
If the Government is so concerned with kids missing a vital part of the school year, then I would seriously suggest that they make it illegal for the holiday industry to vastly hike up their prices during the school holidays, which makes it near impossible for families at the lower end of the earning scale to take a holiday.
I for one do take my kids out of school now and again for a holiday and although some might concur that it may disrupt their education, my thought is that the travelling that my kids do, also enhances their education.
I've always thought in England we are far too anal in our ways of thinking, and I'm sure that's why we still concentrate on the three R's while other, more advanced countries, give a more rounded learning including confidence building. After all, there's many insecure people in England....who's ever seen a shy American?!
Another thing about our UK schools in their double standards over attendance. A colleague at work has a 12 year old daughter who is really good at tennis. She returned to the UK in mid December after nearly four weeks in a tournament in Miami (most of it in term time) which the school wholeheartedly endorsed. She has taken part in numerous tournaments during 2003 and her school sees no problem in giving her authorised leave in term time for this. It will be interesting to see going forward how this school and others like it handles the change in the rules.
the teacher
02-01-2004, 22:42
quote:Originally posted by SusieDozOrlando
I wanted to comment on this particular subject.
It often appalls me the two-facedness of English schools. Constantly we are being told by schools what bad parents we are if we take our children out of school. Yet has anyone given thought to how many 'inset' days we are required to swallow as part of their national curriculum? Days where us parents have to run around like headless chickens because there are no after school clubs to have our kids while we still have to work. If you take into consideration the average parent's income, coupled with the fact that we have to pay after school care for our kids, and 'inset' days because our workplaces don't recognise this....as well as only having four weeks a year to cram in holidays, christmas, kids sick days, I think it's a bloody cheek for schools to moan about any parent wanting or needing a cheap holiday during the school year.
If the Government is so concerned with kids missing a vital part of the school year, then I would seriously suggest that they make it illegal for the holiday industry to vastly hike up their prices during the school holidays, which makes it near impossible for families at the lower end of the earning scale to take a holiday.
I for one do take my kids out of school now and again for a holiday and although some might concur that it may disrupt their education, my thought is that the travelling that my kids do, also enhances their education.
I've always thought in England we are far too anal in our ways of thinking, and I'm sure that's why we still concentrate on the three R's while other, more advanced countries, give a more rounded learning including confidence building. After all, there's many insecure people in England....who's ever seen a shy American?!
[msncry][msncry][msncry][msncry][msncry][msncry]
If you can read this thank a teacher.You see most parents are too darn busy to look after their own children and expect free child minding throughout the day.
Contraception is an under-used facility by the education experts such as Suzidoz.
caroline
02-01-2004, 23:37
Suzie - Carla has already asked you to watch your language as children read these forums and now I'm asking you to do the same.
Perhaps you'd like to edit your post to remove the bad language?
floridadreamvilla.co.uk
02-01-2004, 23:42
I'd echo Carla and Caroline's comments. Let's keep the language clean and fit for a child to read please :)
the teacher
02-01-2004, 23:49
[msnwink][msnwink][msnwink][msnwink][msnwink][msnwink][msnwink][msnwink]Come on suzi, reply to say sorry at least!
Well you can call me old fashioned but just what is wrong with the 3 R's? To read and write is one of the fundamental things in life - try getting a job without this.
And why does anyone think teaching is an easy job? Some of the little charmers arrive at school at 5 out of control and spend their entire school life disrupting every class. And as for a classroom full or hormonal teenagers!
All it takes is one teacher to inspire a passion in a child for a subject and it will probably stay with them for the rest of their life.
SusieDozOrlando
03-01-2004, 05:32
Hey guys,
I haven't checked these posts for a bit...therefore didn't read the comments....if I used bad language I apologise profusely!! I was obviously writing at the time on the basis of a glass of cava and after a good episode of Eastenders!!!
I just got carried away...by the way I love these forums. Great entertainment. Even if I dont agree with everybody all the time[msnwink]
I'll keep it clean, even if I do stand by the principle! [msnembarrased][msnembarrased]
SusieDozOrlando
03-01-2004, 05:52
If you can read this thank a teacher.You see most parents are too darn busy to look after their own children and expect free child minding throughout the day.
Contraception is an under-used facility by the education experts such as Suzidoz.
In comment to the above, I'd like to say, nobody expects free childcare. My opinions are basically this. The average mum and dad have to both work full time in order to pay the mortgage and bills. On the whole, we're not blessed with the same approximate 17 weeks a year holidays that teachers are. I think on average most people get four. I'm luckier than most in that respect. However, out of four weeks a year consider the following:
Trying having to continue to work during kids being off:
17 weeks a year plus inset days. We don't get extra pay to cover this. And let's be fair, childcare is NOT cheap. I know an awful lot of parents who cannot afford it and are barely making ends meet as it is, and inset days are just the most annoying of all because unlike school holidays, there aren't any clubs which the kids can go to like during the holidays.
Then of course, you have to bear in mind taking time off when the kids are ill. That also eats into your holidays. Some people don't even get sick pay. So their own sick days eat into the holidays.
Of course, what schools also don't take into consideration is that EVERY parent wants to be off during the holidays with their kids. If you work for a large organisation, chances are everyone is putting in for the same six weeks during the summer to go on holiday and you can't get a holiday during that time. Most companies dont even allow time off at Christmas because that's usually the busiest period.
So when can these people take a holiday?
If you are one of the millions of ordinary parents, chances are:
a) you can't get time off during the holidays most years because it's been booked already by their seniors.
b) you can't afford to go away during school holidays because your pay can't afford to cover the huge hike in the premiums for flying etc.
So what are you going to do?
Days are long gone, when the average mother was able to sit at home whilst just the father went to work and was the sole breadwinner. Most women now have to match their husband's wage just to make ends meet. The Government should recognise this. After all they were quick enough to move the married man's tax allowance and the little tax relief for mortgages. This put a further strain on the working man's purse.
Even though I'm in a far better position than I was years ago, I never forget being a young working broke mother. So if someone is working hard all year and needs a break, take it! Ok you can argue your kid won't catch up...but if they catch chickenpox as most kids do...they won't catch up after that either....such is life.
Basically, there is a <u>double standard</u> and there is no right or wrong answer to the question at hand. I think it is solely up to the parents to make decisions for their children even if it doesn't make sense to others (teacher, the goverment or the school).
I have brought up this very subject in my class during the last half of fall semester since it is had become a popular topic here on the forums. I was surprised at some of the responses I had gotten. I look forward to using this material next semester as well :)
kevinprewett
04-01-2004, 19:35
Carla,
I agree totally! It's no good parents making teachers the brunt of their anger. I have been teaching since 1974 and in all those years have never had any concern if a parent wishes to take them out during term time. If they are happy that their kids are losing valuable education time so be it. What I object to is that when that child returns to class they haven't got a clue as to what is happenung in lessons at that time and they & the parents expect them to be given precious time to catch up. I wish parents could see how much the education of other pupils is held back by students arriving late at lessons or coming back from holidays.
Kevin
ps If the holiday companies and airlines changed their pricing policies to make them 'all year round' prices would parents still remove their kids I doubt it! Maybe they would become more 'concerned' about education if there was no benefit to absent their children.[msneek]
quote:Originally posted by Carla
[quote]quote:Originally posted by florida4sun
In practice I have found that good teachers think its a good thing. Those who are not up to the job will make a big deal out of it.
Martin
It has absolutely nothing to do with whether a teacher is good at his/her job or not. Taking a child out of school for a 1, 2 or 3 week holiday is disruptive to the child, the class and the teacher. Not once, in the years that I taught, was I ever asked by either a parent or a child for work for the child's holiday!! The parents always seemed to assume that little Johnny would "catch up" when he got back to school!! The older the child, then the more difficult that becomes, to the point where it is almost impossible for many children. For the 14-16 age group with external examinations, the amount of work covered in a 2 week period, in every subject, is great, so these kids have a real uphill task facing them, just because of a holiday. I feel really sorry for kids of this age when they are deliberately taken out of school.
Very few children go through a whole year without any absences for illness, so when you start adding holidays on top, for some kids this can represent quite a lot of missed schooling. Whole topics are often missed out completely because they were covered while the child was away on holiday and the exact skills/knowledge that the child has missed are not readily apparent until either that teacher or the next teacher tries to build on those skills at a later date. Each year is a building block that the next year is built upon and if little bits of the blocks are missing then by the time the child is in high school the gaping holes really show themselves.
The vast majority of children only have a handful of days off each year due to illness and these are generally spread throughout the year. It is the fact that children on holiday are taking a single block of time that is the real problem. The same number of days spread across the year would not have anywhere near the same impact.
Good schools and good teachers have always frowned on parents removing a child during term time but could do nothing about it, so had to make the best of it. Times have changed since you were in the UK, Martin. Now many State schools actively discourage parents from taking children on holiday during term-time and refuse permission and will mark any children who are absent for this reason as unauthorised absentees which is akin to being marked down as a truant. The family could then be investigated by the Educational Welfare Officers. Also many of the sort-after State schools have Parent/Pupil/School contracts and make it abundantly clear before the child joins the school that time off for a holiday is not permitted.
At the end of the d
Heres one situation that made me laugh
We got told off last year for taking Emily out of school 2 days early, the reason was down to
costs.
Anyway, this year her class are going away a week before the half term. Reason being is it
cheaper that week ???????????
Isnt that the same reason WE give. but we end up with a stroppy letter from the school.
Oh Well :D
I for one totally agree that teaching is not an easy job and of course there are extra things that have to be done with regard to lesson planning and so fourth, I do not however regard it as free child care as it is the law to send your child to school. What really annoys me is an MP said that "irresponsible" parents take their children out of school in term time so that they can take advantage of cheaper costs thus enabling them to "upgrade" from the Cannaries to the Carribean. This new fine that will soon be in operation is to combat truancy which I agree is a problem,but I doubt that this will stop the persistant truants and that the only people paying the fine will be the people who ask to take their children out of school for a family holiday.I also have a friend who`s son swims for his county and was given four weeks off to attend a swimming camp or something in term time and was told she didn`t even need a holiday form as it was considered a learning experiance
Kevin, what about valuable family time vs. valuable education time? I have read all the replies to this forum and some have made the point of family time and how that is important for children as well as participating in their formal education. Some parents work a lot and barely have time to even do homework with their children. How do you feel about this point?
kevinprewett
06-01-2004, 22:44
quote:Originally posted by Amirah
Kevin, what about valuable family time vs. valuable education time? I have read all the replies to this forum and some have made the point of family time and how that is important for children as well as participating in their formal education. Some parents work a lot and barely have time to even do homework with their children. How do you feel about this point?
kevinprewett
06-01-2004, 22:44
quote:Originally posted by Amirah
Amirah,
there is absolutely no substitite for quality family time. I think a lot of people are missing the point here. It is not neccessarily anything to do with teachers themselvesand, it has no bearing no bearing on the matter "good" or "bad" teacher!. Peolple need to understand this situation has been brought about mainly by parents themselves wanting schools to be held accountable for everything they do!. They have fallen into the trap set for them by the government. Making schools accountable means schools are now responsible for attendance of students & are are held accountable for producing there figures & making them public. This is yet one more thing the government will take credit for among their "wonderful" innovations and shake up of the state education system. As a teacher I have personally no worries either way, if a student is not there I can't teach them. I think a lot of parents seem to think that "teachers" send out letters to them threatening all kinds of sanctions even court summons for non attendance. This is usually done by the educational welfare officers in conjunction with headteachers who need to justify their attendance figures to the county councils and hence the Government.
As I said parents wanted their government to make schools accountable for everything & the government have done just that!!
Kevin
quote:Originally posted by Amirah
Kevin, what about valuable family time vs. valuable education time? I have read all the replies to this forum and some have made the point of family time and how that is important for children as well as participating in their formal education. Some parents work a lot and barely have time to even do homework with their children. How do you feel about this point?
Kevin, what about valuable family time vs. valuable education time? I have read all the replies to this forum and some have made the point of family time and how that is important for children as well as participating in their formal education. Some parents work a lot and barely have time to even do homework with their children. How do you feel about this point?
Anabella
24-01-2004, 05:57
I always take my daughter off school to go on vacations, I make her miss about 1 month each year :)
she is 11 and never have problem at school at all
We really think that kids learn more traveling that going to school
but maybe in my country schools are "lighter" than in USA or Europe
once when she was at 2nd grade we went in July (it is winter in my country) to
NYC (and vegas), we came back home very tan, the teacher asked me "how can you get such a nice tan if it is winter and in New York winters are so cold"
I just smiled and thank that we took the kid out of school, imagine that a teacher that doesnt know that in the
other emisphere is summer just dont have a lot to teach hehehe
Anabelle,
I love Argentina and have been there many many times. What is school like for 11 year olds there? How long is the school day (hourly), how many school days does she have to attend each year and when does her school let her out for vacation or breaks. This semester I am going to make my entire course about this very topic because it brings up many issues (social, educational, psychological, sociology, geographical, etc.) and I have just completed the syllabus.
It's really nice to see that many people from countries other than the UK and the USA are participating in this forum, it's good learning.