View Full Version : Tipping
Hi All
We are off to Orlando in October, We have been several times before but one area a lot of us Brits are not comfortable with , is the tipping. The first trip we made the brochures said 10% then as years went by it went to 15% . I accept this as a way of life in America but am somewhat suprised when I sit in Restaurants to see that the American people tend to tip far less than the `15% suggested to us. I wonder if there are any American people out there that can enlighten me. Also is it costomary to tip shop assistants that are particlarly helpful? Or for that matter anyone in the Theme Parks? Please accept this as an Enquiry for a stress free holiday and not for an excuse to save money!! Jetlag
Tipping is very much away of life in the USA and whilst we are used to tipping in the UK, it is usually only after a meal / a visit to the hairdresser or after a taxi ride etc - in general the same sort of services get a tip in the USA.
These types of job are very low paid and tips are the main part of their income, being a regular visitor I have gotten to know a few Waiters over the years and I am horrified to learn that they are paid as little as $2 per night in wages, the rest of their income being made up of tips.
That's why, almost without fail, you will tend to get better service and more attention from Waiters in the USA than you will ever get in the UK.
It is of course entirely up to you how much you leave as a tip but as a rule I would suggest the following :
Waiter / Waiteress : 10-15% of the bill ( slightly less if it is for a large amount or party ). But never nothing even if the service has been poor.
Bar Staff : $1-$2 depending on the size of the round / order.
Taxi Driver : 10% of the fare.
Bus Drivers : These can vary as Drivers on the Lynx Buses and the I'Ride Trolley Bus don't accept Tips, nor do any of the Disney Transportation Bus Drivers, but the Hotel Bus Drivers do expect a tip - usually $1 per passenger. Don't worry about knowing which is which, they will have a big sign up at the front of the bus and a collection bin by the door - you can't miss it !!!
Hotel Staff : Usually only the Bell Hops / Door Man / Valet Parking get a tip - this is around $1 per bag.
Shop Assitants : They are usually very helpful, they tend to work on a commission basis, so again they have an incentive to be helpful and pleasant towards you. After all there are plenty of places in Orlando for you to spend your hard earned cash and they want you to spend it in their shop - there is no need to tip.
Theme Park Staff : No need to tip and they don't accept it if you try.
Hope this helps.
DMC
When we were there I also noticed the americans tipped low, or in some cases didnt
tip at all. For me I hate the idea of being expected to tip. I think it leaves the
way for the employers to exploit the workers.
I was always told that if you got bad service to leave a penny tip ???
bellaepovera
22-08-2003, 17:15
I as an American tip from 15-25% Depending on the service. Some resturaunts if you have a party of 5-6 or more will automatically add a 15% tip already to your check so very important to always look at the amount on your check even to check mistakes.
chrizzy100
22-08-2003, 19:25
quote:Originally posted by jetlag
Hi All
We are off to Orlando in October, We have been several times before but one area a lot of us Brits are not comfortable with , is the tipping. The first trip we made the brochures said 10% then as years went by it went to 15% . I accept this as a way of life in America but am somewhat suprised when I sit in Restaurants to see that the American people tend to tip far less than the `15% suggested to us. I wonder if there are any American people out there that can enlighten me. Also is it costomary to tip shop assistants that are particlarly helpful? Or for that matter anyone in the Theme Parks? Please accept this as an Enquiry for a stress free holiday and not for an excuse to save money!! Jetlag
We tip high if the service is good....going from a few $$ for breakfast...and I find we give more if we go out for an evening meal....leave any coins in the little pots in fast food places....and if you want porters at the airport....make sure you have enough doller bills to tip them......they get pretty upset if you don't.....my mum found that out the first time she landed in Orlando.......lol
Chrizzy you're making me feel guilty. I've never tipped at fast food places. I always figured that if I've got to get my own food and clear my own table there is no reason to tip - what do others do?
I wouldnt tip at a fast food place either
chrizzy100
23-08-2003, 02:14
quote:Originally posted by Chris7
Chrizzy you're making me feel guilty. I've never tipped at fast food places. I always figured that if I've got to get my own food and clear my own table there is no reason to tip - what do others do?
I just throw in the odd change....sometimes its only 50 cents or so.....
Those place are hot to work in.....and most are always so clean....so I don't mind giving a small tip....
I find this whole subject odd, and dont want to upset anyone but seriously i do not
agree with giving someone a tip for just doing their job. I do my job and dont expect a
tip so why should they . My main reason is that as far as im concerned as I said earlier an employer will exploit their employees and use the tips as part of their wages, when they should actually pay their employees a reasonable salary in the first place.
Dont America subscribe to the minimum wage ?. If they dont then they are in the dark ages
in my opinion.
Someone said earlier people work for $2 a night and tips, well if they get no tips they are prepared to work for approx £1:20, erm I wouldnt even get out of bed, so something is badly
wrong here if the american way of life is based on this ( in my opinion)
Chris
Very odd, If you go to Spain now, they used to live on tips, but not anymore. Since they
signed up to europe they no longer work 7 days a week behind a bar, the avergae working
week is in line with the majority
chrizzy100
23-08-2003, 04:09
quote:Originally posted by chrisj
I find this whole subject odd, and dont want to upset anyone but seriously i do not
agree with giving someone a tip for just doing their job. I do my job and dont expect a
tip so why should they . My main reason is that as far as im concerned as I said earlier an employer will exploit their employees and use the tips as part of their wages, when they should actually pay their employees a reasonable salary in the first place.
Dont America subscribe to the minimum wage ?. If they dont then they are in the dark ages
in my opinion.
Someone said earlier people work for $2 a night and tips, well if they get no tips they are prepared to work for approx £1:20, erm I wouldnt even get out of bed, so something is badly
wrong here if the american way of life is based on this ( in my opinion)
Chris
Very odd, If you go to Spain now, they used to live on tips, but not anymore. Since they
signed up to europe they no longer work 7 days a week behind a bar, the avergae working
week is in line with the majority
Not all States have a minimum wage......yes its bad that workers work for at some time $1.20 an hour.....but just think what your holiday would be like if everyone stayed in bed instead of sometime working 2 or 3 jobs to make ends meet.....it would be nice if we lived in a world where everyone was paid a good wage....but we don't....and if we did....the cost of the food would go up...so we'd still be paying out the same amount in the end.....its swings and roundabouts......the normal American works bloody hard for their money.....I see it everyday living here.....I for one am more than happy to carry on giving a tip.....when in Roman do as the Romans.....:)
Chrizzy
Thats interesting that your saying people have to do 2 or 3 jobs to make ends meet, My point is
that dont you think thats wrong. Surely as a nation of people you cant think thats right for people to have to work like this. What about family life, family qualities.
Like I said I do not want to cause an issue, but I would not accept that situation as all it
is, is similar to those that have and those that dont, which is what many wars have been over
so that everyone is equal, or at least has an equal chance in life. Actually this could get
heavy which this site isnt about, so perhaps I will leave this subject alone.
Sorry if I upset you, or others this was not my intention at all.
Chris
chrizzy100
23-08-2003, 08:29
quote:Originally posted by chrisj
Chrizzy
Thats interesting that your saying people have to do 2 or 3 jobs to make ends meet, My point is
that dont you think thats wrong. Surely as a nation of people you cant think thats right for people to have to work like this. What about family life, family qualities.
Like I said I do not want to cause an issue, but I would not accept that situation as all it
is, is similar to those that have and those that dont, which is what many wars have been over
so that everyone is equal, or at least has an equal chance in life. Actually this could get
heavy which this site isnt about, so perhaps I will leave this subject alone.
Sorry if I upset you, or others this was not my intention at all.
Chris
Well its not my nation...I'm a Brit.....and I do think its wrong....
But lets try this......
A breakfast costs say $6 all told....so I tip say $2 its cost me $8.....
If the cost to the company goes up in wages......then that same meals going to cost me $8 anyway...because it will get passed on to you and me.....not only that but the lady or gentleman bringing me my breakfast has nothing to gain in giving me good service....she could throw it at me and its still going to cost me $8...... as it stands now I believe the person serving will get their wages made up with the tips made......if its not enough to meet Statewide min wage...then the company makes it up...the server then gets to keep any extra..you don't have to feel sorry for all people who live by tips.....some take home more then they would with just wages.....one guy we talked to made $13k a year....but $40K in tips a year....he had two condos and a boat.....and that was 10 years ago..
My next door neigbour works in the Olive Garden....she pays out $1500 a month in rent...they have 2 new cars.....and 4 kids.....her husband works in a supermarket....they can live here because of her tips.....if they had to live just on min wages..they would lose thousands per year...
There are a lot of people here who work 2-3 jobs on min wages....but that brings you in $10k a year if you're lucky.....tips save a lot of people from becoming homeless and having their kids taken away.....min wage will never replace tips in giving people a good wage....it can't be done if you still want to buy cheap food when you eat out....
If you're happy paying $8 for something you could now get for $3.99 if you don't leave a tip....then alls well and good.....
Just remember.....every t-shirt and toy sold in Disney is made by someone getting paid 50cents for the finished object in some far off sweatshop...so you can buy it for $15.....and not pay the $35+ you'd have to pay if it were made in FL by local workers on min wages......of $5 an hour.....all costs get passed on to us one way or the other...its a fact of life we can't get away from it.....I'll not going to get upset....I think its right its talked about....some of us forget how lucky we are......and remember the next kid bringing you your dinner could be my son....he wants a good car....take pity on him...cus we're not buying it he has to work for it.....LOL:)
Chrizzy
Some very good points there, and valid.
If we see your son next year I will give a good tip and tell him his Mother told me to
Chris
bellaepovera
23-08-2003, 15:19
Tipping is the way of the world. My son during the summer months works as a bellman and receives $5.15 and hour Plus tips which can be anywhere between $10-$50 a shift so I dont know where you heard $1.20 an hour. There is a min. wage for most jobs. I believe servers receive about $3.00 an hour plus their tips so they are the lowest paying job in the US but this is because they do work for tips, which if you have a good position and the place is busy can make more then a secretary does or any office job..When i first came down to Florida and worked in the summer months I got a job at the Holiday Inn on I drive and use to work the breakfast brunch. I use to come home from working only 5 hours anywhere between $75-$125 plus my pay...So as an average which would you choose..being stuck in a office all day or being around and meeting new people? There are slow months but in an average the Orlando area there is money to be made!! Of course we all choose which occupation is best for us.
If people are happy this way, then thats ok. Just I think its wrong thats all
chrizzy100
23-08-2003, 18:26
quote:Originally posted by chrisj
Chrizzy
Some very good points there, and valid.
If we see your son next year I will give a good tip and tell him his Mother told me to
Chris
You're let off..cus we don't move down for a few years yet.....:D
One thing don't every feel you have to give a tip.....or that you have to give 15% or more....if the service is bad....leave a small tip....if its good leave a larger tip.....don't let them rush you into ordering your starter and main course together so you'll leave quicker.... :)
chrizzy100
23-08-2003, 18:37
quote:Originally posted by bellaepovera
Tipping is the way of the world. My son during the summer months works as a bellman and receives $5.15 and hour Plus tips which can be anywhere between $10-$50 a shift so I dont know where you heard $1.20 an hour. There is a min. wage for most jobs. I believe servers receive about $3.00 an hour plus their tips so they are the lowest paying job in the US but this is because they do work for tips, which if you have a good position and the place is busy can make more then a secretary does or any office job..When i first came down to Florida and worked in the summer months I got a job at the Holiday Inn on I drive and use to work the breakfast brunch. I use to come home from working only 5 hours anywhere between $75-$125 plus my pay...So as an average which would you choose..being stuck in a office all day or being around and meeting new people? There are slow months but in an average the Orlando area there is money to be made!! Of course we all choose which occupation is best for us.
My friends works as a waitress.....at Christmas when the rooms are booked up for parties of 30 or more people...she can bring home $150 in tips from each room....plus wages.....she makes her big money at Christmas and Thanksgiving......
I'll add a PS here about Disney paying 50 cent to workers....I'm not against that rate of pay for the area of the world the factories are....most people take home $2 a week in none Disney jobs.....working at a Disney factory they can take home up to $10...but there are people in need of work in the Disney Orlando area.....but Disney says it cost to much to make t-shirts and toys in the USA......even paying just min wage.....I don't know if Disney is right saying that people on holiday would not like to pay more to have things in Disney made in the USA.....that would make a T-shirt now costing $15......cost $25..........would anyone here pay extra......??
I would pay the extra, I would like to think the goods I purchase are made in that country, Same as
back home I hunt around for stuff made in England, I think we should buy our own made goods over
imports. Our economy and manufacturing could do with a boost
Likewise in America I would like to think the goods have been made in america. Ive checked ny trainers
that I got from Walmart and they are made in China - oops didnt read the label properly
So, Chrizzy is the offer of a barbie still on next year :D:D
chrizzy100
23-08-2003, 20:48
quote:Originally posted by chrisj
I would pay the extra, I would like to think the goods I purchase are made in that country, Same as
back home I hunt around for stuff made in England, I think we should buy our own made goods over
imports. Our economy and manufacturing could do with a boost
Likewise in America I would like to think the goods have been made in america. Ive checked ny trainers
that I got from Walmart and they are made in China - oops didnt read the label properly
So, Chrizzy is the offer of a barbie still on next year :D:D
If you tip the cook....HEHEHEHEHE....
Its very hard to find something made in the USA......most things come from China......I have a little shop here that has lace for dressing tables and windows made in the USA.....I send a lot of that home.....everything in the Christmas Tree Shop where my daughter works is made in China......thats why its so cheap.....local craft people can't make things for $1-$5 price tag......
Of course I will tip the cook
Were having a barbie later on, having greek sausages, burgers, ribs, chicken and salad. Just to
top it off the clouds have come over as well. I got all this food from a little greek lady who
sells it from her market stall.
crackerjackvilla
26-08-2003, 16:42
This subject is generally taboo for the english. I like to think that we are generally observant. If you look in supermarkets and generally the shops they in turn are asking for staff. So the wage issue is not a real problem.....
When I go over I visit G**D*N C****l to eat which was not in high season, place is generally full. If a waiter/waitress gets 2$ per table serving ten tables an hour. They in turn are earning better than we.
This was on the 192 so international drive earnings ????
So should they tip us then for eating there:D
floridadreamvilla.co.uk
26-08-2003, 17:44
I'm not trying to figure out why the software bleeped out the name of that restaurant...very odd.
Think I can guess the name
Is there not another big advantage for staff heavily reliant on tips for their income - it makes for a very cash based income. There would be little way to actually check the income of staff, without stalking them, therefore surely there are big advantages to the staff in what they declare for tax purposes. We were also amazed at the buffets in Las Vegas, even in the cheaper ones, that the custom is to leave one to two dollars after your meal for your server. This server only basically would get a couple of drinks and clear your table after your meal. While we sat and had breakfast one morning at Circus Circus the server was taking in probably 20 - 30 $ an hour, not a bad rate!
The other one that amazed me was getting a taxi once from the Monte Carlo hotel, again in Vegas, there was a queue for taxis and a doorman basically asking where you were going, calling over a taxi, they to were queued up, opening one of the doors for and telling the taxi driver where you are going. For this he would expect at least a dollar tip. Now there may be some times that he had to put some bags into the trunk of the cab, but he must have been dispatching people at the rate of one cab a minute, so the maths is quite staggering. I am quite happy to tip waiting staff appropriately, and I think a small tip after poor service is better than no tip, but I did think that to tip this chap for calling a taxi over, opening a door and saying two words to the driver was a bit much, especially when we had no luggage.
I did hear that for some positions with a high income from tips, like our chap above, they are unpaid, or even have to pay to have the position. I am not sure about the truth in that, but you could imagine that there would be some competition for these positions.
chrizzy100
27-08-2003, 01:39
quote:Originally posted by MTP
Is there not another big advantage for staff heavily reliant on tips for their income - it makes for a very cash based income. There would be little way to actually check the income of staff, without stalking them, therefore surely there are big advantages to the staff in what they declare for tax purposes. We were also amazed at the buffets in Las Vegas, even in the cheaper ones, that the custom is to leave one to two dollars after your meal for your server. This server only basically would get a couple of drinks and clear your table after your meal. While we sat and had breakfast one morning at Circus Circus the server was taking in probably 20 - 30 $ an hour, not a bad rate!
The other one that amazed me was getting a taxi once from the Monte Carlo hotel, again in Vegas, there was a queue for taxis and a doorman basically asking where you were going, calling over a taxi, they to were queued up, opening one of the doors for and telling the taxi driver where you are going. For this he would expect at least a dollar tip. Now there may be some times that he had to put some bags into the trunk of the cab, but he must have been dispatching people at the rate of one cab a minute, so the maths is quite staggering. I am quite happy to tip waiting staff appropriately, and I think a small tip after poor service is better than no tip, but I did think that to tip this chap for calling a taxi over, opening a door and saying two words to the driver was a bit much, especially when we had no luggage.
I did hear that for some positions with a high income from tips, like our chap above, they are unpaid, or even have to pay to have the position. I am not sure about the truth in that, but you could imagine that there would be some competition for these positions.
we also tip the bus drivers on tours.....or for driving us to and from Disney etc.......I've noticed a lot of Brits don't.....:)
Cleaning up a table after someone eaten is a nasty job....even if you've had a buffet and helped yourself to food......leaving a dollar is a cheap thank you for a clean table......:D
Thinking about it..I'm sure we would also leave a tip for the cleaners at the end of our visit if we had stayed in a Villa.....like we do every morning at a hotel......I think its just habit now.....
quote:
Cleaning up a table after someone eaten is a nasty job....even if you've had a buffet and helped yourself to food.....
Don't disagree with you, Chrizzy, but the diners were clearing the tables and puting there trays and dishes onto appropriate racks, all the cleaner was doing was wiping the table with a damp cloth. I would also think that the local health office would be very interested in any food serving establishment that didn't provide clean tables.
Bus drivers, cleaners I can understand, yo feel that they have done something to warrent their tip, especially if they do something special, like the disney cleaners have done when we have stayed in the hotels.
chrizzy100
27-08-2003, 02:29
quote:Originally posted by MTP
quote:
Cleaning up a table after someone eaten is a nasty job....even if you've had a buffet and helped yourself to food.....
Don't disagree with you, Chrizzy, but the diners were clearing the tables and puting there trays and dishes onto appropriate racks, all the cleaner was doing was wiping the table with a damp cloth. I would also think that the local health office would be very interested in any food serving establishment that didn't provide clean tables.
Bus drivers, cleaners I can understand, yo feel that they have done something to warrent their tip, especially if they do something special, like the disney cleaners have done when we have stayed in the hotels.
Disney cleaners do a really good job......I love staying in those hotels......they have the only beds that don't give me a bad back when I'm away......I'll still use the hotels at the weekends sometimes.......even having a home down in Orlando......
You know i love it when im called a Brit, Im English and proud of it :D:D
Anyway, this subject is interesting, I think it lies in the fact that we (Brits) dont tip
as it seems the service type jobs in England obviously pay minimum wage or more and so the
staff are not as reliant on tips. It seems in America it's the reverse. I also think you
can tell the difference in the quality of service as well (better in America im afraid)
I agree about when in Rome etc, but to be fair to us Brits, it feels odd to tip and even
against our way of life, so it is hard and you are almost embarrased to tip. Or you feel
that you have to which I feel is wrong. Mind you we did tip, only once did we not tip and
that was to show that we were not happy, even though they could tell they did nothing to
appease the situation. So I thought a 'No tip' or a penny tip would prove the point.
When we went to pick up our hire car, the chap showed us the car and how to work the basics
and did seem to be standing around waiting for a tip, I was busy loading the bags and he walked
away. My wife said she thought he wanted a tip, but he had only walked us about 5 yards ?? so
I wouldnt have thought he deserved one ??
Anyway as I said this is an interesting subject to dicuss over a coffee or something
chrizzy100
27-08-2003, 03:50
quote:Originally posted by chrisj
You know i love it when im called a Brit, Im English and proud of it :D:D
Anyway, this subject is interesting, I think it lies in the fact that we (Brits) dont tip
as it seems the service type jobs in England obviously pay minimum wage or more and so the
staff are not as reliant on tips. It seems in America it's the reverse. I also think you
can tell the difference in the quality of service as well (better in America im afraid)
I agree about when in Rome etc, but to be fair to us Brits, it feels odd to tip and even
against our way of life, so it is hard and you are almost embarrased to tip. Or you feel
that you have to which I feel is wrong. Mind you we did tip, only once did we not tip and
that was to show that we were not happy, even though they could tell they did nothing to
appease the situation. So I thought a 'No tip' or a penny tip would prove the point.
When we went to pick up our hire car, the chap showed us the car and how to work the basics
and did seem to be standing around waiting for a tip, I was busy loading the bags and he walked
away. My wife said she thought he wanted a tip, but he had only walked us about 5 yards ?? so
I wouldnt have thought he deserved one ??
Anyway as I said this is an interesting subject to dicuss over a coffee or something
In England...we have family income support ..so you don't need to make up your wages in tips etc.....the British tax payer does it for you.....you get no help at all in the USA...
My friends husband took home one hundred pounds a week for over 40 hours work in a supermarket in England.... to feed etc him his wife and 4 kids......but.....he had free housing...he paid no healthcare....no tax....and had a top up of one hundred pounds from the Gov each week....plus family allowance .....if that happened in the USA ...there would be no need for tips here......
So there is the answer to the tipping question, We have a welfare system that should catch
you and help out and in America there is nothing, Cheers Chrizzy
"So there is the answer to the tipping question, We have a welfare system that should catch
you and help out and in America there is nothing, Cheers Chrizzy"
I think that's true, but there is still a historical ilogicality to tipping. I can see the point of tipping a waiter, often their friendly attitude can enhance a nice meal (or the opposite), but why tip a coach driver who has provided transport from A to B and not provided a personal service?
Why do I tip my barber, but not my dentist? - The former can only make me look silly the later has the power to hurt:)
Thats a good question
Seems tipping is an odd subject to understand.
chrizzy100
27-08-2003, 22:31
quote:Originally posted by Chris7
"So there is the answer to the tipping question, We have a welfare system that should catch
you and help out and in America there is nothing, Cheers Chrizzy"
I think that's true, but there is still a historical ilogicality to tipping. I can see the point of tipping a waiter, often their friendly attitude can enhance a nice meal (or the opposite), but why tip a coach driver who has provided transport from A to B and not provided a personal service?
Why do I tip my barber, but not my dentist? - The former can only make me look silly the later has the power to hurt:)
We can't tip the postman over here at Christmas....he can't take it.....but we always did that in England....along with the dustbinmen.....
Tippings an interesting subject......I think I'll go and look it up online......:D
I always tip the dustmen cos all year long they take away anything I put out, as for
postmen, well they change so much round here i dont see the point.
chrizzy100
28-08-2003, 01:15
quote:Originally posted by chrisj
I always tip the dustmen cos all year long they take away anything I put out, as for
postmen, well they change so much round here i dont see the point.
The logic of tipping
It may seem odd, but tipping some people and not others really does make sense. Some service employees, argues Michael Lynn, associate professor of market and consumer behavior at the Cornell University School of Hotel Management, offer a highly personalized service -- and tipping is an efficient way of rewarding them.
In a restaurant, for example, what constitutes good service is really a matter of the customer's opinion. "It's much rarer to tip a chef than it is to tip a restaurant server," says Lynn. "The chef's job is not customized -- whether or not he did a good job is easily evaluated."
Status also comes into play. "A chef has a rare skill that requires a great deal of effort and study," says Lynn. "People may feel less guilt because of that. I don't feel bad that a chef cooked me a meal, but I do feel bad that a waiter had to serve it to me."
Tipping exists around the world, but there are different customs in different countries. Lynn researched these variations, counting the number of service professions that were tipped in various countries. He then compared these numbers with the results of personality tests given to people in those countries.
It turned out that countries with the most extroverted and neurotic citizens (the United States leads in both categories) tipped the largest amounts and to the greatest number of professions. "Extroverts are outgoing, dominating, social people -- and tipping is an incentive for the server to pay you attention. Neurotics are prone to guilt and generalized anxiety -- maybe they tip more because of guilt over status differences between themselves and the server," Lynn says.
The history of tipping
In 1972, George Foster, Professor Emeritus of Anthropology at UC Berkeley, looked at the origins of words meaning "tip" or "gratuity" in several language. He found that, frequently, it evolved from 'drink money' -- supporting the idea that the practice began in eating establishments. Foster theorized that tipping started with a desire to avoid envy on the part of the server and to send the message that the server should have a drink at the customer's expense.
The origin of the word English word "tip" is less clear. One popular theory says it's is an acronym of "to insure promptness." Jesse Sheidlower, Principal Editor in North America for the Oxford English Dictionary, says that's wrong, because acronyms weren't popular in English until the 1920s. "'Tip," says Sheidlower, "began as a verb in the seventeenth century, used in the language of thieves, meaning 'to give'." By the early eighteenth century, the meaning included "to give a gratuity to a servant or employee".
I think you don't tip dentists as the are professionals. I know that we are forbidden from receiving tips from our professional bodies (I am an optometrist).
I guess my other problem in being seen as a Brit is I am not English. I don't mean this in an offensive way to anyone, in particular Chrisj, but that almost ubiquitous interchangeability in the use of Britain and England just doesn't really sit very well with any of the other three countries that make up the UK. I studied in Cardiff and there were a high proportion of English students studying there, from my experience there was just not any point getting into this kind of conversation with them as the English don't see this as a problem.
I guess it is a cultural difference. This is also maybe why we try to integrate with the locals on holiday, as we don't want to be seen as Brits, especially in the States.
Vive la difference!!
MTP
What I meant in being English is that I am. I was born in England and my ancestors as far back
as I have researched were english, this is my heritage. Now ask a scotsman or welshman and they
will proudly say they are scottish or welsh, likewise why cant i say im english. Thats all im saying, just it seems taboo to say it and i dont see why
I have a friend from Texas who always tells me off when I say he is an american, he is a texan so he proudly tells me. So likewise im english and proud of it as well
I do intergrate,I get on with everyone and anyone, but I am proud of who I am and where I come from and so should everyone be. Funny you end with french taking into account that we do not get on with them at all, and perhaps never will.
Anyway this is about tipping or not to tip and not a heavy subject or meant to be
I agree completely with you about this being about tipping, but it is also based on the cultural differences to tipping and I think therefore has to encounter some discussion on cultural heritage. (Can of worms opened, but here goes).
A couple of interesting points are that you mention your English heritage, and I have no problem with that at all. My own ancestory is probably a mix of Scottish and Irish. But in your own post you describe yourself as a Brit and then English, I would rarely describe myself as British, but probably Scottish first. Admittedly your reply will be picking up on my previous thread. I have to say again, I just don't think the English (and this is in my limited experience) get the differeince between British and English. Many other countries also assume that if you are from the UK then you are English.
The other thing is that fact that you say that we do not get on well with the French, another example of by being English it is assumed that this heritage is for the whole UK. The French and Scottish have a long history of cooperation, known affectionately in Scotland as the Auld Alliance (sp?). It has a lot to do with Celtic heritage, and I found the attitude of the Welsh immediatedly changed towards me in Cardiff when they found out I was Scottish and not English, there is a kind of "All Celts together" attitude.
These are old traditions, passed down, perhaps without much relivance to the modern world or the economics of it. Unfortunately for the English, the Celtic countries are bonded by a common enemy!! This heritage can often actually do more harm than good, as many heritages can, passing down prejudices and grievances from one generation to the next, without any basis in genuine knowledge, thought or experiences.
I agree that this is a little heavy for this forum, especially with the positive people that post on this forum. Actually ithis forum is one of the few instances in the UK where I have found people who are open-minded and positive, like the American character is. This is part of the reason, however, that I made my postings to try and to explain our own attitude to tipping. Undoubtedly they do contain sweeping generalisations, and I apologise for these, and I again wish to re-state that I don't want to cause any offense to any of you good folks, just share our own opinions.
MTP
Good points raised and no offence at all, like tipping this subject can get heavy and its good
to be able to talk about it without someone taking offence as no offence is meant by anyone.
Interesting points about the celts and I agree. A good subject to debate one day, Perhaps
a lot of this goes back to Long Shanks as he was known ??, He does seem to have a lot to
answer
chrizzy100
28-08-2003, 04:02
quote:Originally posted by MTP
I agree completely with you about this being about tipping, but it is also based on the cultural differences to tipping and I think therefore has to encounter some discussion on cultural heritage. (Can of worms opened, but here goes).
A couple of interesting points are that you mention your English heritage, and I have no problem with that at all. My own ancestory is probably a mix of Scottish and Irish. But in your own post you describe yourself as a Brit and then English, I would rarely describe myself as British, but probably Scottish first. Admittedly your reply will be picking up on my previous thread. I have to say again, I just don't think the English (and this is in my limited experience) get the differeince between British and English. Many other countries also assume that if you are from the UK then you are English.
The other thing is that fact that you say that we do not get on well with the French, another example of by being English it is assumed that this heritage is for the whole UK. The French and Scottish have a long history of cooperation, known affectionately in Scotland as the Auld Alliance (sp?). It has a lot to do with Celtic heritage, and I found the attitude of the Welsh immediatedly changed towards me in Cardiff when they found out I was Scottish and not English, there is a kind of "All Celts together" attitude.
These are old traditions, passed down, perhaps without much relivance to the modern world or the economics of it. Unfortunately for the English, the Celtic countries are bonded by a common enemy!! This heritage can often actually do more harm than good, as many heritages can, passing down prejudices and grievances from one generation to the next, without any basis in genuine knowledge, thought or experiences.
I agree that this is a little heavy for this forum, especially with the positive people that post on this forum. Actually ithis forum is one of the few instances in the UK where I have found people who are open-minded and positive, like the American character is. This is part of the reason, however, that I made my postings to try and to explain our own attitude to tipping. Undoubtedly they do contain sweeping generalisations, and I apologise for these, and I again wish to re-state that I don't want to cause any offense to any of you good folks, just share our own opinions.
My nans family were very happy in her marrying a Scot....her family were french living in the UK.....but after his death she married about 5 years later an Englishman....and all hell broke out....she was cut off from all family money....and never saw most of her family till I was around 5.....its was OK to live in England but not marry anyone English......just thought I'd throw that in.....LOL
Isn't it funny, and perhaps a little sad, that our ancestory can seem so important in some ways, especially as something that Americans are charectiturised about searching out, and yet in other ways cause so many problems. Especialy when it comes down to which side of a nominal line you are born on.
We humans are a very bizarre species.
Yep I agree we are a strange lot, but then if we were all the same wouldnt life be a bore.
Next year when I pop in to see chrizzy for the barbie, at least we will have a lot of subjects
to talk about.
I think the most important thing is to be able to discuss an issue without fear of ridicule and to also take the time to find others views and respect their views even if you do not agree
with them
thats what living alongside each other is all about. Well thats my opinion
chrizzy100
28-08-2003, 05:14
quote:Originally posted by chrisj
Yep I agree we are a strange lot, but then if we were all the same wouldnt life be a bore.
Next year when I pop in to see chrizzy for the barbie, at least we will have a lot of subjects
to talk about.
I think the most important thing is to be able to discuss an issue without fear of ridicule and to also take the time to find others views and respect their views even if you do not agree
with them
thats what living alongside each other is all about. Well thats my opinion
I'm a mind of useless info Chris.....I can talk about anything..and for a very long time....LOL.....:D
I find all this facinating, particularly chrizzy's research, but: "People may feel less guilt because of that. I don't feel bad that a chef cooked me a meal, but I do feel bad that a waiter had to serve it to me."
I agree with the personal service bit, but I'm uncomfortable with tipping because it seems to perpetuate a "class" divide. I remember eating in a posh resteraunt in Atlanta and while we ate, a very elderly coloured guy came round the tables shining peoples shoes. Some of my coleagues found it funny that some bloke who looked (and spoke) like the one off the Uncle Ben's advert should be grovelling on the floor shining shoes while we ate - for me it just left me cold at a level of racism which wouldn't be tollerated over here.
Following that argument, why do you tip a coach driver (who hasn't given you any personal service), but not a nurse? No one would suggest (in the UK) that a nurse is on the wages of a dentist (or opthamologist;)), and emptying bed pans etc is about as personal service as you can get[}:)] I'm sure there are many nurses who take home far less that waiters.
Chris 7
Speaking as a nurse we are not allowed to accept money as a "thankyou"
but chocolates and a card are fine. Having said that it is mainly Nurses who patients see that get the cards and chocs not the ones out of the public eye (which goes back the waiter/chef thing) I work in a busy theatre suite and sometimes stay up all night working or an hour or two after my shift has finnished which I do gladly but because we never or rarely get to see the relatives we are kind of invisible. Also the care recieved on the ward if for a much longer period in time. As a side note I personally find tipping a bit daunting so leave it to hubbie we have always recieved superb service in Florida and don`t mind saying thankyou with $
bellaepovera
28-08-2003, 15:42
The bloke that was shining shoes in Atlanta does not have to do it if he chooses not too. Servers have to declare 8% of their tips and at some resturaunts due to lack of tips, especially at the hotel buffets add automatic 15% is added on to your bill. Those tips are automatically declared on the servers taxes and also the servers have to tip the busboy at the end of their shift 10% of what they make.
I would not have tipped the car rental guy either for showing me where my car is. Never heard of that!!
I too wouldn't expect to tip anyone to pick up my rental car, but I would tip at a restaurant whatever the price was, unless the service was diabolical.
This is the Scot speaking (¾ Scot, ¼ English) married to an Englishman (¾ English, ¼ Scot) with British children (½ English, ½ Scot)!!!! - and somewhere way back there's some Irish in me as well;)
I dont know if he expected a tip, he might have been waiting to see all was well. Just
something my Wife mentioned as I was busy packing the cases in the boot and getting out
the driving instructions.
Dont need them next year we know the way now. I seem to have started something here about
nationality hehehe
On a side note I think nurses do a grand job and should be payed more, I would gladly pay
more tax if I knew it was going to them
bellaepovera
28-08-2003, 17:42
Yes i agree with you on the nurseing pay. They are so underpaid in America and tend not to take care of the patients as they are overworked and not enough of them to be had. Especially at the retirement homes. Nurses aides-forget it, they get only min. wage!! And they do so much!!
I think its the same here Patti, very low pay and long hours, and no thanks at the end
of it. I know loads are leaving the NHS and going to work in the private sector so they
can afford a decent living.
No disrespect but "The bloke that was shining shoes in Atlanta does not have to do it if he chooses not too" is the same argument people use to defend prostitution - the girls don't have to do it if they don't want to. Where do you draw the line?. There used to be a contest in the US (can't remember which state) of "Dwarf Tossing" - I suppose no one forced the dwarfs to take part, but does that make it right and in good taste?[:o)]
On the subject of Nurses, I Know they can't accept money. A year ago my daughter had a very bad fracture (bone came out through the skin) and I can't begin to describe both the helplessness which I felt and the gratitude to the theatre team (that we met when we took her down to theatre). I wrote to the hospital asking if I could make a donation to their staff christmas party, just to be used to buy a few drinks as a thankyou to the team (and any one else) who had done so much for me (more than every waiter who ever serves me) but it was politely declined.
If tipping is an expression of gratitude for a personal service I see no reason why it should apply to certain jobs and not others.
Incidently don't get fooled into the "pay more tax and give it to the nurses" debate. I've worked with a few health trusts and from my discussions with clinicians & administrators, you need to get the waste out of the NHS before the nurses will get more. In many areas the service is run by administrators who don't begin to understand what nursing means, and the most interesting part of the work I did was talking to patients about what they valued. The Government are mad keen on A&E waiting times (which is why hospitals use triage nurses), but when you talk to patients they are far more concerned with quality of care and conditions for nurses than they are with waiting times.
I totally agree about the hospitals. it seems the in thing to put in red tape and administrators
and thus the problem begins, But thats another huge subject to debate
There are actually some really interesting debates that could be had from this one topic. It is funny that tipping, which seems a global norm in the restaurant industry, to a greater or lesser extent, actually touches upon so many other subjects. Many of these other debates could, imagineably, be quite heated and passionate.
All from asking the question of what the normal level of tipping is. I suppose one really good tipping story is about the Australian millionare who is famous for gambling (his name escapes me) but he is flown to Las Vegas on private jets, etc, etc, and can gamble millions of dollars over a weekend. He is renowned as being a generous tipper and aparrently once when he was doing well at the tables asked the cocktail waitress if she had a mortgage, she replied that she did, he then gave her a tip and said well you don't now!!
Wow
Wonder how little he would tip when he was having a bad run
I agree subjects can/could get heated but dont think this one has. Its good that such
subjects can be discussed from all points of view.
Regarding hospitals, whilst one cannot tip there is usually a fund that donatations can be made to. And box of chocs or wine etc are usually gratefully received if you wish to do something directly for the medical staff involved.
Fiona
I know, when both our children were born we did make a contribution, I think this needs to be
publicised more so people are aware.
Going back to the original subject, I have jumped in to offer my perspective as an American. First, I would just like to say that I don't think it's true that the Americans don't tip the customary 15%. I believe the majority of them do (most often, I tip 20% if the service has been good). We don't think anything of this practice because it is all we have ever known. It is just the way things are done here.
It's understandable that visitors from the UK would find this unusual since it isn't customary where you live. I'm certain that there are things that I would question if I came to visit your country.
I have often noticed comments throughout the forums about how cheap it is to eat out in the US - well, part of the reason for this is you are making up for some of the difference by tipping your server. You're paying - but in a different way.
Patty
Last night we went to Pizza hut and we (5 of us) ordered the exact same meal that we ordered
approx 3 weeks ago at the pizza hut on the 192. It cost £30 which is approx $45. Now that was
the same in cost as the one in Orlando.
So what was difference.
Here the waiters were not continually coming upto us asking if all was well and could they
do anything, I take it they were touting for a tip in florida, or it felt that way
When I looked for a waiter here, they noticed, in the pizza on the 192 I had to go and search for a waiter when something was wrong, which there was at one point.
We had a free salad bar, in Florida we had to pay extra, but it wasnt a salad bar it was a single bowl.
As for the size, we ordered a large in both places and it was the same.
So without wanting to be rude, we paid the same for a meal in england that we did in florida
and in england we had a free salad bar, but not in florida and then we are expected to tip
I accept in florida wages are not the same, but to be honest the portion size was the same
and to have someone in your face all the time when you want to eat does not go down too well.
Obviously this is a single example, but it did make us talk about it as the recent holiday is
still fresh in our minds. Take it further I would prefer an english pizza hut meal to the one
one the 192 because we were left alone to enjoy the meal, and if we needed someone they noticed.
Im sure you will find things odd about england, as we do about america
As usual this is not meant to offend but to explain
chrizzy100
29-08-2003, 04:38
quote:Originally posted by chrisj
Patty
Last night we went to Pizza hut and we (5 of us) ordered the exact same meal that we ordered
approx 3 weeks ago at the pizza hut on the 192. It cost £30 which is approx $45. Now that was
the same in cost as the one in Orlando.
So what was difference.
Here the waiters were not continually coming upto us asking if all was well and could they
do anything, I take it they were touting for a tip in florida, or it felt that way
When I looked for a waiter here, they noticed, in the pizza on the 192 I had to go and search for a waiter when something was wrong, which there was at one point.
We had a free salad bar, in Florida we had to pay extra, but it wasnt a salad bar it was a single bowl.
As for the size, we ordered a large in both places and it was the same.
So without wanting to be rude, we paid the same for a meal in england that we did in florida
and in england we had a free salad bar, but not in florida and then we are expected to tip
I accept in florida wages are not the same, but to be honest the portion size was the same
and to have someone in your face all the time when you want to eat does not go down too well.
Obviously this is a single example, but it did make us talk about it as the recent holiday is
still fresh in our minds. Take it further I would prefer an english pizza hut meal to the one
one the 192 because we were left alone to enjoy the meal, and if we needed someone they noticed.
Im sure you will find things odd about england, as we do about america
As usual this is not meant to offend but to explain
That seems a lot...for a large pizza... drinks (free refills)...and salad bar...we paid $25 here.....at Pizza Hut....for 4 .....I've never had a waiter come up to us more than once...mostly after the pizza comes....I always thought the Cape was expensive.....:(
Well thats my point that when we first went to florida (1986) it was cheap the portions were
huge and you didnt mind tipping, but that was just an example as to why we should tip when
we get a better deal back home and no tip expected
But I do accept tipping is a way of your life, so a question, do you tip us when you come over the water ???
chrizzy100
29-08-2003, 05:56
quote:Originally posted by chrisj
Well thats my point that when we first went to florida (1986) it was cheap the portions were
huge and you didnt mind tipping, but that was just an example as to why we should tip when
we get a better deal back home and no tip expected
But I do accept tipping is a way of your life, so a question, do you tip us when you come over the water ???
I tip in England ..or buy the person behind the bar a drink..or tell people to keep the change.... I've been a waitress in England and I've always had good tips from people from China and America ......:) so they must tip in China too because they are the best tippers ever.....
heheheh
Ok
I used to work behind a bar for many years, so I do know what its like to work for upto
6 hours for a few quid. Anyway where in england were you originally from Chrizzy ??
chrizzy100
29-08-2003, 19:32
quote:Originally posted by chrisj
heheheh
Ok
I used to work behind a bar for many years, so I do know what its like to work for upto
6 hours for a few quid. Anyway where in england were you originally from Chrizzy ??
I was born in Bristol...and moved to Pompy at 16......I never really liked Hampshire much.....so I don't miss it.......I'd only go back if I could find a place in Cornwall.....:)
I know Bristol quite well I work there a lot, and the North West.
Never been to cornwall, but a friend holidays there and loves
the place
chrizzy100
29-08-2003, 20:24
quote:Originally posted by chrisj
I know Bristol quite well I work there a lot, and the North West.
Never been to cornwall, but a friend holidays there and loves
the place
Cornwalls beautiful...I was hoping my parents would move there....but they ended up in Wales......
Worked in Cardiff before as well, it was cold and rainy. I tend to Warrington/liverpool a
lot nowdays
hgoodfellas
10-09-2003, 09:38
Being an American and a person who was and still is employed in the Service industry, I've always been taught the following:
T=to
I=insure
P=proper
S=service
A person who works in this industry does live basically on the tips they make. And they do have to pay taxes on that money 'cause it is considered income (on average 15% of their sales has to be declared for tax purposes).
Hope this helps your discussion:D:D
Karen
Thanks it does, I just think as you stated 'to insure proper service' I do have a
problem getting my head round that. Must be a cultural thing.
You should in my opinion get proper service regardless, and then in my view a tip is
giving for servcie better than that, However I do see and agree in America it is
different which I accept, just find it an odd practise thats all
I know I came into this a little late but:
Here's the skinny...
Do not tip at fast food joints ever (McDonald's, Pizzahut, etc.).
Tip cab drivers, airport workers (bag handlers), waiters and waitresses at a sit down meal only, bartenders, hotel workers (bellhops, doormen and elevator operators) and that's about it.
But most importantly, tip if you want to and at how much you want! Remember waiters and waitresses are in labor unions in most states in the USA and yes, they live off of tips and they do make good money if they are GOOD AT WHAT THEY DO.
Not much of anything is made in the US because it's cheaper to get things elsewhere.