accidental damage

[ping_zing]

Hi
I am looking to rent a Villa direct from the owner for the first time and have found a suitable villa and have received the contract to sign but am unsure about what exactly the security deposit is supposed to cover. I understand that if we break something then the replacement cost would be taken from the deposit and have no problem with that but would the security deposit cover us for accidental damage on more expensive items in the house. Say for example the felt on the pool table gets damaged by a miscued shot this could be an expensive repair so would we be expected to pay for this or would this be covered under the owners house insurance?
This is the paragraph from the contract that is causing me concern -

'1. Where loss or damage to the Property, the inventory, or equipment exceeds £180 for UK guests (determined by the exchange rate pertaining at the time and as quoted by National Westminster Bank PLC) or $250, the lessors will bill the lessee for the shortfall, and the lessee agrees to pay within 14 days. In the event that the Guest fails to pay any such shortfall, the lessors reserves the right to exercise any legal remedies to pursue the amount owed from the lessee'.

We will of course take great care during our stay and fully respect the property we are renting but at the same time want to be able to relax but with a 4 year old running around accidental damage could occur although we will try to place things out of reach where possible.

I would appreciate the views of Villa owners, is this fairly typical in rental contracts or should the security deposit cover this?

[Snapper]

I can give you one owner's perspective on this and I am sure that other owners and hopefully guests who have rented through this site will also chip in.

Broadly speaking, my expectation when I entrust the villa to someone is simply that I get it back in the same tip top condition that it was in when my guests first walked in through the front door. I don't think that's too much to ask, and in a nutshell, that's about it. A statement like that obviously doesn't cover everything though; so let's look a bit deeper into it.

After a full season, would I expect the villa to still be in exactly the same condition? Well, maybe not. I can deal with the odd broken cup or plate, the odd missing towel that got covered in suntan lotion. I don't think I'm overstepping the mark if I suggest that almost all villa owners will consider things like this general wear and tear. We all have to allow for it, and we all try to get over to Florida as often as possible to put these small things right and replace things that need replacing. Over a longer period of time bigger items are going to wear like the bedding and furnishings and part of the joy (??) of owning the villa is constantly keeping on top of these and refreshing or replacing where necessary. From an owners point of view (or at least mine) this is my responsibility and is nothing to do with any one set of guests; and if I do my job right, you'll never notice this process happenning, everything will just appear perfect all of the time.

Now I know that this hasn't yet answered your question about a scuff or tear to a pool table; and that's a really good question as it feels kind of on the boundary between what might be considered wear and tear vs. what might be considered damage (accidental or otherwise). To try to answer it as best I can, let me flip the question around. Suppose you were staying in a villa, and suppose you scuffed the felt on a pool table. If it was you who scuffed the felt, would you expect the villa owner to pay for it? Let me take the example further ... suppose you had your own pool table back home, and suppose you scuffed the felt on that table while playing, completely accidentally. Would you expect someone else to pay for that repair? I think we'd all agree that the answer to the second example is definitely not. Your table, your mistake, your bill. So should this be any different when you are staying in a villa. To all intents and purposes the villa becomes your home for the week or three that you stay there. If it isn't your responsibility, then whose is it?

Aha! But there is always insurance, and that there is, however any claim by the owner is likely to put up next year's premium and the year after and the year after, etc. Villa insurance is a bit different to a UK policy in that if you claim the premium goes up. Simple as! So if the owner provides insurance and the owner claims the owner is paying. There is always the option for a guest to take out their own policy though. I am sure that every owner here would have no problem with that. [msnwink]

I'm still aware that I haven't given you a straight answer but I am getting to it. First though there is one other consideration and it is something that gets discussed almost every day by the owners. This is the guest who damages something, doesn't tell anyone, tries to hide it and then when asked denys all knowledge and gets very shirty. It can be very annoying and frustrating from the owner's point of view because we do know exactly what condition the villa is in and if something gets broken we know. Trust me! The flip side of this is the guest who phones the owner straight away to apologise that due to some accident (mis-cue on the pool table) something got damaged and what should they do. The second example we can happily deal with as it gives us time to put things right before the next guests arrive. The first example is, to be brutally honest, just downright annoying as it causes heaps of aggro when both owner and guest know the full story.

So here's my answ

[MarkJan]

Steve, a very thorough answer.

[LiesaAnna]

well thought through there Steve, fully understood,

[steph_goodrum]

From my personal point of view I market to families so accept there may be accidents and cover the cost accordingly (in 6 years I have never felt the need to deduct from anyones security deposit). As my villa liked most is checked between each guest then obviously I am aware of what conditions things are in. If my mc were to then tell me of 8 or 9 faults after a guest left then that would be negligence (whether carelessness or non supervision of children) and I would expect them to pay for the damage.

most of the insurance policies have a high excess of around $500 so in most cases it wouldnt cover small amounts.

As Steve says though, my first reaction is how the guest chooses to deal with the situation, if they are honest enough to admit it then it goes a long way.

The other way to look at it Ping, is from the homeowners point of view, they are asking you to trust them with £180 of your money in return they are entrusting to you a home worth probably in excess of a quarter of a million dollars.

Another consideration when setting the level of security deposit is that many owners have back to back bookings constantly as they are so popular, should a guests cause excess damage then it may render the home in an unfit state for the next guests to arrive meaning the homeowner then is compelled to pay for alternative accommodation for them until it is put right.

Sorry it's a bit long winded but I hope it goes some way to giving you our side of the story.

[Kazzie]

A brilliant answer Steve, I am fully impressed[msnsmile]

Karen

[orlandodaze]

It never ceases to amaze how villa owners trust their beautiful homes to complete strangers. I suppose most decent people take more care of their villa than of their own home . I know I try and keep it looking almost as good as when we first arrive and everyone says "WOW" . Just now we are sadly packing to return home tomorrow , and our beautiful villa looks a bit like a bomb site with 6 peoples shopping and not one but two extra suitcases to be filled .I know the cleaners are coming in when we leave but I still have to go around with the vacumn cleaner and polish and dust the whole place. Its a matter of pride really.

[pepsi]

Having read your posting Steve you have clearly explained the situation and given a fair account. I think most home owners would agree with the comments and suggestions you have made.

[Carla]

Very few guests do any damage at all Ping. The vast majority are wonderful people who treat our homes beautifully. Most take as much pride in our homes as we do![msnsmile2][msnsmile2]

We all have those clauses in our T&Cs to protect us from the odd guest that crops up once in a while, unfortunately.

There are three "incident types" that I know of when just about every owner will pursue a guest for all of the security deposit, and more, if the repair costs more than the security deposit.

1. When a guest brings a pet (cat, dog or whatever) to a home that doesn't permit animals. This necessitates a thorough spring clean of the entire home and all furniture and furnishings, which is expensive. It has to be done because the next guests could have allergies to animals.

2. When a guest smokes inside a non-smoking home. Same as above, entire home has to be treated.

3. When a guest causes damage that could not have been caused if the item/s had been used in the manner and the purpose for which they were intended.

Examples for point 3, that I know have happened to unlucky owners include:

a) an iron burn on a sofa. What on earth was a hot iron doing anywhere near the sofa?

b) dining chairs ruined by chlorine, sun and rain because they had been taken onto the deck and left there overnight. They were dining chairs, not deck chairs and should never have been removed from the dining room in the first place.

c) cigarette burns in a carpet and/or furniture. In a non-smoking home this is unforgivable because not only does the home need to be deep-cleaned, the room also needs a new carpet/furniture. In a smoking home it shows total lack of care and attention. (This happened in non-smoking homes).

d) the home was trashed. Comforters/quilts torn, rubbish left all over the place etc. etc.. No reasonable person would treat a home this way.

e) a paintball fight on the deck and paint spots all over the family room. What were these morons thinking????

As you can see, none of these could ever be considered accidental damage, but would definitely be considered willful damage. The paintball incident involved the police, was treated as criminal damage and cost the guest thousands of dollars.

As Steve said if an accident happens and the guest is upfront about it that counts for a lot.

Enjoy your time in the villa. You sound like a normal caring person and I'm sure that you'll be fine. [msnsmile2][msnsmile2]

[Carla]

Enjoy your last few hours Olive. Don't clean. You're on holiday![msnsmile2][msnsmile2]

What really helps though is if the dishwasher is loaded and started, all beds that have been used are stripped of linen which along with all used towels is put in the laundry room, and you then start a washing load of bedlinen or towels. The cleaners will definitely thank you for doing both of these things.[msnsmile2][msnsmile2]

They have to vacuum each room as they leave it, so that there are no "footprints" in the carpet, so definitely don't worry about doing that! [msnsmile2][msnsmile2]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by orlandodaze
I know the cleaners are coming in when we leave but I still have to go around with the vacumn cleaner and polish and dust the whole place. Its a matter of pride really.
[/quote]

[ping_zing]

Thanks to everyone for the replies, i have a better understanding now of what the security deposit covers.
Thanks to Steve for your post, you seem very fair and i don't think i would have any problems settling any issues if the Villa owner has the same attitude as you.
As I said before we will be very careful and sensible during our stay and i'm sure there won't be any problems, it will be a privelidge to be able stay in the Villa and enjoy some luxury for a couple of weeks.
Brian

[ShirleyD]

Have a great stay Brian

Olive I would also say, forget the hoovering. Just make sure you have put the dishwasher on and a pile of towels into wash. The cleaners would be very grateful for that

[E. Cosgrove]

Another thing to remember Brian is to take a quick look around when you arrive and if there is any obvious damage to the home report it as soon as you can, or as soon as it becomes apparent. This way you will not be charged for anyone elses damage.
As Steve says, unscrupulous guests may try to blame something on a previous guest and with the best will in the world an MC will not always notice something a guest has tried to coverup!![msnmad]
If you do have an accident report it immediately, accidents happen, especially with children, but these are family homes meant for children and as Carla says holding up your hands counts for a lot!!
Finally don'tlet the fear of minor mishaps stop you from relaxing and enjoying your holiday, I'm sure you'll have a great time[msnsmile2]

[mizzy]

Carla i was so shocked when i read your post about the damage that's been caused to villas whilst they are being rented

i can fully understand about being on holiday and people being in high spirits and full of fun so you may get the odd mishap but some of the things you mentioned are downright apalling and i cannot begin to comprehend how these people think or how awful it must be for an owner

from a renters perspective i am in awe of the amount of work that goes into making the villas such a welcoming place for the guests and as a "guest" i know it's important to treat the villa with the same, if not more care than i would with my own property

i have two children and little mishaps will and probably do happen, i'm quite a strict parent and i always make it clear to my children that the rules of their own home are exactly the same when in a borrowed home too, whether on holiday or not

it's such a shame that there's a minority out there think that it's acceptable to do these things to anothers property/possesions[msnsad]

Mizzy

[Snapper]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by ping_zing
Thanks to Steve for your post, you seem very fair and i don't think i would have any problems settling any issues if the Villa owner has the same attitude as you.[/quote]
Hi Brian,

That's one of the great unspoken benefits of renting direct from an owner you've hit on there. At the other end of these forum id's or email addresses it's a real person and not just some faceless corporation or call center. We tend to treat everything individually and not just hide behind contracts or corporate rules and regulations. Certainly all the other villa owners I've met are all extrememly nice people and will bend over backwards to make sure you have the best holiday ever. And I'm sure you will!

[steph_goodrum]

Hi Brian

It's a bit like when you pick up a car from the rental desk, you have to give a major credit card number as security incase there is any damage they feel you are responsible for as well as incidentals (or indeed even an hotel).

[kitty]

We have just returned from a villa renting from this forum and you just have to be extra careful after all its not yours,we always take our shoes off when we come into our house here so continued there,i never let the children come in with wet swim suits only in the bathroom next to the pool,same as i do here.
I know its a worry about the pool table but whoever is using it has to know to take extra care,my two boys even left the table set up the day we left the villa.On the last day i spent hours hoovering and cleaning it,even making sure that all the sheets/towels were washed and dried,not a good holiday some might say but my peace of mind i left the villa spotless[msncool]

[E. Cosgrove]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by kitty
We have just returned from a villa renting from this forum and you just have to be extra careful after all its not yours,we always take our shoes off when we come into our house here so continued there,i never let the children come in with wet swim suits only in the bathroom next to the pool,same as i do here.
I know its a worry about the pool table but whoever is using it has to know to take extra care,my two boys even left the table set up the day we left the villa.On the last day i spent hours hoovering and cleaning it,even making sure that all the sheets/towels were washed and dried,not a good holiday some might say but my peace of mind i left the villa spotless[msncool]
[/quote]
Above and beyond the call of duty Kitty!![msnwink]
You are the sort of guest villa owners love[msnsmile2]

[chrizzy100]

I'd never let my kids damage anything...but we are always very messy when away...[msnembarrased]

[floridadreamvilla.co.uk]

It's very much appreciated Kitty. Our Management Company were only saying the other day the house was spotless when you left [msnsmile].

Pity we could not say the same about the guests who stayed in our 7 bed house last, but that's another story (needless to say we will never, ever, rent to an all male party again) [msnsad].

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by kitty
We have just returned from a villa renting from this forum and you just have to be extra careful after all its not yours,we always take our shoes off when we come into our house here so continued there,i never let the children come in with wet swim suits only in the bathroom next to the pool,same as i do here.
I know its a worry about the pool table but whoever is using it has to know to take extra care,my two boys even left the table set up the day we left the villa.On the last day i spent hours hoovering and cleaning it,even making sure that all the sheets/towels were washed and dried,not a good holiday some might say but my peace of mind i left the villa spotless[msncool]
[/quote]

[blott]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by mizzy
Carla i was so shocked when i read your post about the damage that's been caused to villas whilst they are being rented

i can fully understand about being on holiday and people being in high spirits and full of fun so you may get the odd mishap but some of the things you mentioned are downright apalling and i cannot begin to comprehend how these people think or how awful it must be for an owner

from a renters perspective i am in awe of the amount of work that goes into making the villas such a welcoming place for the guests and as a "guest" i know it's important to treat the villa with the same, if not more care than i would with my own property

i have two children and little mishaps will and probably do happen, i'm quite a strict parent and i always make it clear to my children that the rules of their own home are exactly the same when in a borrowed home too, whether on holiday or not

it's such a shame that there's a minority out there think that it's acceptable to do these things to anothers property/possesions[msnsad]

Mizzy[/quote]Carla's only touched on a few things that a minority of guests have done to beautiful homes but we, as owners, must be able to protect ourselves from those types of guests and unfortunately we can't tell in advance which ones they are.

The majority of guests do absolutely no damage, if they do happen to break something they go out and buy a replacement or report it quickly so that it can be fixed before the next guests arrive and generally look after the place excellently. They don't take 'souvenirs' home with them and they leave the place looking as good as it did when they arrived. Some are even just as houseproud as us owners.

All owners want you to enjoy your holiday in our homes and not worry unncessarily about accidents that might happen - we all realise that anyone can have an accident but, as been already said, it goes a long way if you report it and don't try to hide it because we'll find out.

[mizzy]

i fully understand Blott

we once went on holiday with another rather posh family (log cabins at disneyland paris) and i got the shock of my life on the final check out day, i popped over to their cabin to drop off some things of theirs and there was piles of dirty dishes in the sink despite there being a dishwasher and the whole place was awash with popcorn!, it was everywhere floors, sofas, worktops [msneek] and they had no intention of cleaning any of it up, she employs a cleaner at home so she obviously thought it was beneath her to do menial work

i did ask if they needed more time to pack up and she said "no we're ready to go" and locked the door leaving all the mess behind, she even had the cheek to comment on the fact that it looked like no-one had used our cabin because it was spotless and made it sound as if i was the odd one out[msnmad]

now im so glad we never invited her family to come with us to florida, like you said Blott you can't tell in advance which ones they are

Mizzy

[kitty]

Thanks john sorry to hear about your house i hope too much damage wasnt done,we saw a group of males in a house near your 3 bedroomed villa and one day all the pool furniture was in the pool,thought it discusting the way it was being treated.I wouldnt even let the children tread on the grass out the front as it looked so nice and cared for.I even took sheets for my young sons bed as he suffers from severe eczema and didnt want to mark your sheets,had to throw them away before coming home though as my daughter tok up all the luggage space [msncool]

[steph_goodrum]

"I even took sheets for my young sons bed as he suffers from severe eczema and didnt want to mark your sheets,had to throw them away before coming home though as my daughter tok up all the luggage space "

Kitty

That was really thoughtful of you. I used to do the same for my daughter when she went away because of her excema (also meant I knew the powder they had been washed in wouldnt aggravate any more.

Now you know how cheap things are you cuold always pick some up when you get there to save on your luggage space going.

I'm sure I'm not alone amongst the owners though who say if the sheets were marked because of his scratching though we'd all be extremely sympathetic and wouldnt dream of chargiing you. If he's anything like my daughter used to be (and still is sometimes even at nearly 20), when she was younger I used a sheet that had a tiny hole in it (only a couple of millimeteres from the washing machine, by the morning you could put your hand through the hole , she must have just caught it wrong with her nails and it grew.

[kitty]

My son has bandages on at night at home,but when we are away hes too tired to go through with all the treatment so we have to smother him in cream during the night,alls i can say is thank goodness for the villa washing machine/drier,not being a lover of dishwashers i done my usual,washing up the traditional way[msncool]

[floridadreamvilla.co.uk]

No that's not ours thankfully. Our 7 bedroom home is on Willow Bend - the next section of Crescent Lakes from our 3 bed.

Unfortunately they were the kind of guest some people have alluded to above and seemed to spend 2 weeks partying and making a general nuisance of themselves. My fab Management Company managed to get all the damage sorted out in time for the next guests arrival thankfully - bar two very badly stained carpets which we are having professionally treated tomorrow - hopefully the stains will come out otherwise it's new carpets for the 2 bedrooms.

Needless to say it's cost more than their security deposit to sort out so far and if some new carpets are required it will cost considerably more than that.

Thankfully they are very much in the minority and virtually all guests are fabulous and treat your home as their own [msnsmile].


<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by kitty
Thanks john sorry to hear about your house i hope too much damage wasnt done,we saw a group of males in a house near your 3 bedroomed villa and one day all the pool furniture was in the pool,thought it discusting the way it was being treated.I wouldnt even let the children tread on the grass out the front as it looked so nice and cared for.I even took sheets for my young sons bed as he suffers from severe eczema and didnt want to mark your sheets,had to throw them away before coming home though as my daughter tok up all the luggage space [msncool]
[/quote]

[LiesaAnna]

Thats dreadful John!!!

i will never understand why people have to behave in such an appauling manner!
no respect!!! wonder what the homes are like here?

[kitty]

Hope you manage to get it sorted,the house we saw was as you turn into your road where the pool is straight ahead of you,you have to take into consideration that its a residential area as well.

[floridadreamvilla.co.uk]

Thanks - I'm not sure whose house that one is.

Your security deposit is in the post so should be with you tomorrow or Wednesday [msnsmile].

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by kitty
Hope you manage to get it sorted,the house we saw was as you turn into your road where the pool is straight ahead of you,you have to take into consideration that its a residential area as well.
[/quote]

[kitty]

Thanks john did your carpets get sorted out?My daughter has already spent the security deposit, i promised it to go towards driving lessons after the holiday,it doesnt stop there though does it we also said we would help her out towards a car[msneek]

[floridadreamvilla.co.uk]

I've not heard back from my Management Company yet but hope to do so soon. I'm not holding out great hope to be honest as all the normal methods of getting stains out of carpets have not worked.

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by kitty
Thanks john did your carpets get sorted out?[/quote]

[chrizzy100]

My friends new villa had stains all over the carpet..it had only been rented out for 5 days before we got there...towels had hair dye all over them ...

[ShirleyCottam]

I know that sometimes owners have problems with guests that cause damage, but so far all my guests have been model guests, (like Kitty,) and have left my place in top condition, so have never yet needed to hold back a security deposit. (and I hope I never do!! )

Willful damage I would seek payment, but in the case of any accidental damage I would review each case individually.

[kitty]

It means a lot of upheavel if you have to change the carpets doesnt it[msncry], especially when you like the next holiday makers come into a spotlessly clean villa,the only time my children had a drink near carpets is when they go to bed and thats a bottle of water.We received the deposit back today john,thanks very much,looking at going back to florida 2008,as we have booked for turkey again next year.
Youll have to add to your villa adverts no all male party.[msncool]

[floridadreamvilla.co.uk]

It does indeed [msnsad]. We heard back from our MC that the professional carpet cleaners managed to sort one of the bedrooms out but not the other. We're staying at the house next (starting this weekend [msnsmile2]) so will get it sorted out then.

The two groups of US guests we have had in the meantime have been fab and really enjoyed their stays at the house which is great [msnsmile].

Enjoy your trip to Turkey - it's a place we'd love to go ourselves sometime.

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by kitty
It means a lot of upheavel if you have to change the carpets doesnt it[msncry]
[/quote]

[kitty]

Thanks long time to wait yet but like this year it will soon pass,good to hear one of the carpets are okay,hope you have a good holiday yourselves.You should try turkey,its a great place and the people are very friendly,i was dreading it the first time we went but was very surprised how clean it is[msncool]