A Simple Question...

[paradise found]

...but I can't seem to find a definitive answer,
despite trawling through forums and websites for weeks!

Finances permitting, my wife and I both hope to retire in
about ten years time.

I realise that retiring to Florida 'full time' is out of the
question, so we were hoping to spend summers in the UK,
and the rest of the year staying in villas around Florida,
returning to the UK periodically to make sure that no single
visit to the US is more than 90 days...

We are not planning to buy a property or car over there,
but I read a post on this board reporting that a relative
had been told that they 'couldn't come and go as they pleased',
even though they kept to the 90 day rule, which has got me worried!!

So my question is: <span style=&#39;color:maroon&#39;>&#39;when travelling on the visa waiver program,
is there a minimum number of days which you must remain in
your country of residence each year??&#39;</span id=&#39;maroon&#39;>

If anyone can answer this, or point me in the right direction
(nothing in the FAQs at UnitedStatesVisas.gov!), I would be
extremely grateful...


~ MARK ~

[normajohnp]

Hi Mark,
I don`t know if this helps but we have been over their 5 times this year and nobody at immagration has made any sort of comment like that.( staying from 2 to 7 weeks ) I know I am not alone in going this often to Florida as quite a few on the forum do. Hope you find out as there will be a lot of other owner/travelers intrested in the answer.

Norma.

[luckylady]

Hi Mark
You can do what we have done.obtain a visa which allows to stay in America
6 months out of the year.
You can only apply for this visa online. you will have to attend an interview at the American Embassy in London, very straight forward,all they want to know,if you are financial sound. will want to see all your personal information also must have a residence in the UK don't want you to be a burden on America's resources
Also what you intend to do while you are there here is the link

http://london.usembassy.gov/rcquest.html

[Snapper]

Untimately Mark it always seems to come down to the issue of being able to convince US immigration that you are there to visit and not to stay. As Barbara mentions, if you get a B2 visa you can visit for up to 6 months so it isn't that the US is against visitors per se. Let's face it, what sensible country would be. You take your hard earned cash over there and pay tax when you spend it, tax on fuel, tax on any property you own, etc. while at the same time not being elligible for any hand-outs from the government and not taking a job of a local. It's perfect for them. So perfect in fact that one wonders why they haven't had the sense to implement a retirement visa like many other places.

Your plan to spend the summer in the UK and the winter in Florida will help tremendously as you'll be maintaining a house, home and residence in the UK. This goes a long way to convincing the US that you do intend to leave at the end of your stay. Consider if you sold-up in the UK? It would be much easier for them to believe that you had done that in order to settle outside the UK, and at that point they might look a bit more closely at your request to enter the US.

Personally, I think your plan of the summers in the UK and winters in Florida is an excellent one. If you don't buy a second home in Florida you also have the option of heading out to some other places. Phoenix is wonderful in the winter. Outside the US, Aus is a great place to head for the winter also, and if you were to break your trips to the US with trips elsewhere then it demonstrates even more to US immigration that you aren't planning to settle there.

[Robert5988]

Snapper has summed it up well.

The answer to your question(in red print)is there is no restriction at all on how long you must remain out of the USA before returning on another Visa Waiver; and this is specifically stated in the regulations. However they have introduced restrictions on leaving the USA to a neighbouring country(Canada/Mexico/Caribbean etc) and then returning and getting a new Visa Waiver.

You really don't need a Visa as a Visa Waiver will suffice for your needs as you have stated them. Bear in mind a Visa does not guarantee your entry any more than a Visa Waiver; the criteria is to satisfy the US immigration officer that you intend comply with the requirements for entry.

One word of caution is that after retirement age you may well have difficulty getting travel insurance for trips of more than a month at a time. Most annual policies, even for 'youngsters', have that restriction.

I suspect the reason why the USA does not introduce 'Retirement Visas' is that only the Mega rich would have sufficient funds to guarantee that they would be able to pay for medical treatment in their old age. Serious medical problems that are common in old folk(heart/cancer/stroke etc) can run up huge bills - several hundred thousand dollars for a couple of weeks intensive care. It would not do much for America’s image to be seen deporting unwell 70/80 year olds because they had run out of funds!


Anyway much as I love Florida, retiring or living full-time in the USA would have absolutely no appeal for me personally - its a place to go on holiday.

[paradise found]

Thanks to everyone for the replies :-)

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Snapper wrote:
Your plan to spend the summer in the UK and the winter in Florida will help tremendously as you'll be maintaining a house, home and residence in the UK.[/quote]Absolutely - although we do plan to 'downsize' our property here,
in order to free up money any reduce council tax/utility bills.


<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Personally, I think your plan of the summers in the UK
and winters in Florida is an excellent one.[/quote]I got the idea from reading about the American 'snowbirds' who
do exactly the same (without the 90 day restriction, of course!),
so I thought - "if you can't beat 'em..."[msnwink]
I've also noticed that most Villas/condos on the Gulf Coast
do "snowbird specials" in the Winter, with rental rates listed
by the month instead of by the week in Summer!

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:If you don't buy a second home in Florida you also have the option of heading out to some other places. Phoenix is wonderful in the winter. Outside the US, Aus is a great place to head for the winter also,[/quote]...or the Maldives, South Africa, etc...
I'm drooling at the thought of it! But my wife and I will both
have to work and save like mad over the next 10+ years to
make any of it possible - luckily, neither of us drink or
smoke, and we have just changed from two cars to one!


Thanks again to everyone for your input, and for reassuring
me that my plan isn't flawed/crazy/pie in the sky!

My only remaining quandry is how to get the best deal on
car hire for 60-90 days; do any car rental complanies offer
discounts on long-term hire? [?]
(sorry for off topic!)


MARK

[blott]

Check out the car rental link at the top of each forum page as they provide really good value. I don't know any car rental companies that do specific discounts for long term rental though.

[Snapper]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by paradise found
Thanks again to everyone for your input, and for reassuring
me that my plan isn't flawed/crazy/pie in the sky!
[/quote]
Far from Mark.

I'm sure that lots of people here are also making the same plans.

If you don't mind me saying so you also come across as having done lots of thinking and planning already, and I'll be the first to wish you every success that all your plans work out well. Strangely enough, the more you plan for and work for these things, the more they have a habit of coming true.

[Ray9]

Hundreds of Brits spend the winter 6 months in Florida
they are all arriving about now ..
Always go the B-2 if you can...far more reliable and less hassle than the visa waiver ..

Most car hire compny will only rent by the month (30days)
you just have to renew it each month..but be careful some have restriction on taking it out of State ...

Also avoid spending more than 183 day in the US per year ..
The IRS may decide they want a share of your pie ... lots of get outs but you ever need them on your tail.

[Robert5988]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote: Hundreds of Brits spend the winter 6 months in Florida
they are all arriving about now ..
Always go the B-2 if you can...far more reliable and less hassle than the visa waiver ..

Most car hire compny will only rent by the month (30days)
you just have to renew it each month..but be careful some have restriction on taking it out of State ...

Also avoid spending more than 183 day in the US per year ..
The IRS may decide they want a share of your pie ... lots of get outs but you ever need them on your tail.[/quote]

Personally I think having to go and get any form of Visa(including B2) is far more hassle and expense than entry under a Visa Waiver - which only involves filling out a form on the plane.

Also why is a B2 Visa far more reliable? If you have any difficulty on a Visa waiver you are just(or more likely) to have difficulty getting a Visa.

The only advantage of a B2 Visa is that it allows more than 90 days on a single visit which Mark specifically said he didn't intend doing.

Although technically you can be liable for Tax in the USA on your worldwide earnings and assets, I also don't think you are likely to run into problems with the IRS wanting tax from you unless you are super rich. If they do so what? There is a reciprocal arrangement so any tax you pay in the USA is deducted from your UK liability.

[Snapper]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Robert5988
Personally I think having to go and get any form of Visa(including B2) is far more hassle and expense than entry under a Visa Waiver - which only involves filling out a form on the plane.

Also why is a B2 Visa far more reliable? If you have any difficulty on a Visa waiver you are just(or more likely) to have difficulty getting a Visa.[/quote]
True enough I guess but if it were me planning on spending up to 6 months in the US I would go through the hassle and cost of the B2. You only need to do it, I think, once every 5 years so it's not like it's that much of a chore. The benefit, other than the 6 month stay, is that in some ways it helps to formalise your relationship with the US. In effect you are saying to them that you understand their entry and exit requirements, you intend to stay longer than the average visitor and so you are applying for the correct visa for the job.

True also that having a visa does not guarantee you entry, but nor does a visa waiver form. I think the visa does give you the right of appeal though, a visa waiver certainly does not. At the point where you sign that green card you are, quite literally, waiving any right to representation or appeal.

I would completely agree that if you have any difficulties on a visa waiver that you would more or less blow any future chance of obtaining a visa; but I would also suggest that this is doing things the wrong way around. Surely it would be far better to apply for, get and travel under the correct visa before you have issues with the visa waiver.

While you could, technically, visit the US as much as you liked under the visa waiver this isn't really acting in the spirit of what the visa waiver is there to achieve. Eventually this will be picked up by an immigration officer. If you had just spent 3 months in the US, departed and then 3 days later presented yourself for re-admission it isn't going to be long before you hit an immigration officer who starts asking questions. If that ever came to pass I think one of two things would happen. One would be that you're admitted but with the advice to get the correct tourist visa (a B2) before coming back again. The other would be that you are denied entry, and being on a visa waiver you'd be on the next plane back home. This would also, pretty certainly, skupper any future chance of obtaining a B2.

By obtaining a B2 you are effectively demonstrating to the US authorities that you understand their regulations regarding temporary admission, that you plan to stay for longer than average, and so you are doing your utmost to play by the rules. There are still no guarantees, but it never hurts to stack the deck in your favour.

[Robert5988]

Steve,
I understand the points you are making but with regard to the 'spirit of the regulations' I think the excellent quote below sums up the situation!!

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:so it isn't that the US is against visitors per se. Let's face it, what sensible country would be. You take your hard earned cash over there and pay tax when you spend it, tax on fuel, tax on any property you own, etc. while at the same time not being elligible for any hand-outs from the government and not taking a job of a local. It's perfect for them. So perfect in fact that one wonders why they haven't had the sense to implement a retirement visa like many other places.

[/quote]
I go 6 times a year and am always given a permission for up to a 90 day stay. I have never heard of anyone having difficulty entering on a waiver unless they had lied(normally about convictions) or the Immigration officer thought that they would not meet the criteria(seek employment etc) My contention was that if you were in the latter category, you probably wouldn't get a Visa anyway. Also, Visa or not, you could still be refused entry; although I take your point about the right to an appeal.

My personal opinion is that the USA couldn't care less by what(legal)method, you enter their country, and for how long you stay, as long as they are satisfied that you meet their criteria for entry and they are convinced you will not become a burden on Uncle Sam.
Still we are only stating our opinions and it is up to individuals to decide.

There is a query I cannot find the answer to in the various regulations:

You have a B2 Visa and stay 6 months on a single visit. Can you make a further visit(s) in the remaining 6 months of the year; either on your Visa or on a Visa Waiver?

[rocky7]

Simple answer, no more than 6 months per year in the USA.

[Robert5988]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:There is a query I cannot find the answer to in the various regulations:

You have a B2 Visa and stay 6 months on a single visit. Can you make a further visit(s) in the remaining 6 months of the year; either on your Visa or on a Visa Waiver?

[/quote]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Simple answer, no more than 6 months per year in the USA.[/quote]

Where to you get that information from?

Not opinion please - regulations.

Certainly if you use the VWP there is no restriction on how long in any 12 month period you can stay in the USA. Obviously no more than 90 days at a time and provided you meet all the other criteria for a Waiver - and of course, as always, at the discretion of the immigration officer.

If you are correct in your assertion of only 6 months in 12 month period(if you have a visa) it seems strange that you are entitled to spend less time in the USA than those on a Waiver.