View Full Version : Is this the end of visa waiver
chrizzy100
14-07-2005, 18:13
London bombs spur Congress to rethink visas
Under waiver program, jihadists from U.K., other nations can enter U.S.
WASHINGTON - Members of Congress with responsibility for homeland security were just beginning Wednesday to assess the implications of the news from Britain that the suicide bombers who killed 52 people in London last week were British citizens and thus would not have been subject to face-to-face visa interviews to enter the United States.
Since the United Kingdom is one of the 27 countries in the U.S. Visa Waiver Program, jihadists from Britain — as long as they were British citizens — could potentially enter the United States with less scrutiny than the U.S. government gives to visa applicants from al Qaida originating countries such as Egypt, Saudi Arabia, or Pakistan.
Sen. Joseph Lieberman, D-Conn., the ranking Democrat on the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee, said Wednesday, “I’ve been concerned about the Visa Waiver Program generally. I think this finding in London just deepens that concern and should lead our government to work very aggressively with the countries that enjoy the benefits of that program to end it — or to begin to curtail it and put some rules on it. It is a big opening in our security apparatus.”
Robert5988
14-07-2005, 19:24
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote: British citizens and thus would not have been subject to face-to-face visa interviews to enter the United States.
[/quote]
A couple of thoughts.
Firstly those who committed the atrocities in London had not(it has been reported) been in trouble with the Law so on what grounds could they be excluded? i.e denied a Visa.
Making the assumption that the senator believes potential terrorists are likely to be Moslems; it is pertinent to point out there are plenty of American Moslems disillusioned with America’s actions. The Army Sgt who shot 2 of his officers being an example.
If someone from Europe intends to be a Suicide Bomber in the USA, he can enter the USA illegally with ease from Canada, Mexico by boat etc. Like thousands do anyway.
It will have a huge impact on the tourist trade – particularly in Florida. Restrictions on Europeans will bring similar restrictions on Americans visiting some European countries.
That is not to say I don’t think the VWP will cancelled/curtailed.
chrizzy100
14-07-2005, 19:56
Well lets hope they really give this a lot of thought......we don't want the many to have to suffer because of the few....in the end I think money may win out and they would not wish to lose the tourist trade.......with the amount of people going to FL alone...they could not see everyone in a London face to face interview .......
steph_goodrum
14-07-2005, 20:10
Since, if I remember, rightly many of the suicide bombbers involved in 9/11 had studied, lived and worked in the US from their home countries, I assume they had all been vetted and approved for Visas.
From what has been said so far the bombers in London have nothing in their past to suggest any possible threat so would probably have qualified for Visas as well. I dont see how making everybody get Visas would give them any more information than the current system where they check who is on a no fly list even if they are using a visa waiver and can turn back the aircraft or deny entry.
Well let's see what an end to the visa waiver does. The bottom will drop out of the market for tourism, because most people can't be bothered with visas. What about people going back and forth trying to find a house or business? I don't think it'll do the tourist industry any good whatsoever. With such a weak dollar anyway for trade you'd think America would be a bit more clued up. I think if they do that it'll go down like a ton of bricks. Because everyone will have to apply for a visa and on that assumption they'll have to be strict on handing them out so less and less people will qualify. In turn people who may have wanted to have visit will then not want to go through such an ordeal just to have a holiday.
And just think what it will do to the people who have invested in homes there?? Less people to rent and possibly owners who may not even get a visa themselves. Personally I wouldn't be surprised to see this happening anyway.
Surely though the visa waiver is the answer rather than the problem. Any terrorist seeking entry under the visa waiver programme should be ticking Yes to question C on the green immigration card. This makes it easier to spot them, er, doesn't it?
[msnwink]
If your memory need refreshing it's here: http://www.orlando-guide.info/forums/topic_14753.asp
Katys Grandad
14-07-2005, 22:31
If this senator thinks that potential terrorists aren't sophisticated enough to overcome the cancelling of the waiver scheme then where has he been for the last 30 years?
These people KILL THEMSELVES for what they see as their 'cause'. They are certainly not going to be deterred by such a gesture to popularity.
Oh, some really cheerful comments on here as usual I see!
The visa waiver hasn't been in force for ever and before it was introduced, everyone who visited the USA had to get a visa - I don't remember no-one going there though. There are still lots of countries that UK citizens visit where they're required to get visas but it doesn't put them off travelling there.
If the visa waiver system was cancelled, then US visitors would need to get a visa to visit the 27 countries in the visa waiver system - that'd only be fair wouldn't it?
Maybe the US will cancel all the other UK and other country citizens' visas to stay in the US whilst they're at it? After all, two minutes at a window in the Embassy would hardly qualify them as having an 'in depth' interview would it? So how would anyone know if they were 'hidden' terrorists too? Even these bombers' families had no idea about them doing such a thing so how would the US determine who was and who wasn't? Perhaps as Snapper suggests everyone in the UK should have to complete a visa waiver form and tick Yes to question C if this applies to them so that we all know that they're terrorists?
When the US has had time to think, I'm sure they'll realise that in any city in their country they could be unfortunately hiding any number of people who were born there with the same intentions as the bombers who hit London. Just like they had a very rapid rethink about not allowing US troops stationed in the UK to travel within the M25 area.
BTW, I don't know any home owners who are terrorists and therefore wouldn't qualify for a visa!
one point though, before vwp, acquiring a US visa did not mean you had to visit the embassy. It was a simple form filling exercise.
chrizzy100
14-07-2005, 23:39
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by wilfy
one point though, before vwp, acquiring a US visa did not mean you had to visit the embassy. It was a simple form filling exercise.
[/quote]
I think it said in another piece on the subject..that they wanted face to face interviews....but I've been told in the last few hours.. that sen Joseph Lieberman has wanted an end to VW for a long time...the bombings just give him a reason to bring it up again.....maybe its worth keeping an eye on things....but money talks....and to make it that hard to get into the US would lose the country a lot of money.......
No the vw hasn't been in effect for ever agreed. But going to the embassy would throw up a lot of people who'd been using the program with minor points which wouldn't allow them to get a visa. The vw is so flexible that most people don't declare little things, like a minor offence 20 years ago, which shouldn't with hold you from getting a visa because it was so petty or long ago, but will. It will lose the US a lot of money there's no doubt about that if it goes into effect.
Robert5988
15-07-2005, 00:18
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:If this senator thinks that potential terrorists aren't sophisticated enough to overcome the cancelling of the waiver scheme then where has he been for the last 30 years?
These people KILL THEMSELVES for what they see as their 'cause'. They are certainly not going to be deterred by such a gesture to popularity.[/quote]
Its like suggesting all driving licences in Iraq should be cancelled immediately and that would stop suicide bombers driving bomb laden cars at US troops.
I remember going to the states on a number of occasions before the VWP and getting a visa really wasn't too painful a process. My wife needed a visa this time round and whilst a nuisance, certainly wouldn't put me off travelling.
What it would affect severely would be the last minute holidays and the weekend trips to New York etc.
I hope they don't do away with it, but I'm not unduly concerned about it.
Tonish
E. Cosgrove
15-07-2005, 00:36
Hear hear,what happened to being upbeat and positive, I'll worry about it IFit happens.<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Tonish
I hope they don't do away with it, but I'm not unduly concerned about it.
Tonish
[/quote]
steph_goodrum
15-07-2005, 02:02
"What it would affect severely would be the last minute holidays and the weekend trips to New York etc."
Tonish most people who travel regularly and have a visa have a 10 year B2 visa anyway so it wouldn't necessarily mean the end to those trips except for the first time would have to be planned.