Larger passengers

[Cruella DeVilla]

Reading the baggage allowance threads has got me thinking.
Should larger travellers have to pay extra e.g. for two seats.
Should be interesting to hear both sides of this debate? Please feel free to add comments.....nice ones please!

[Cruella DeVilla]

I'll start this one off. As I have two points of view really.

I would be extremely annoyed if someone told me I had to pay extra as I was some pounds overweight. However having been on the brunt of a very large lady (and I am certainly no Twiggy)! who was well over her seat and into mine on a long flight back from Mexico, it was rather uncomfortable and I was a tad annoyed. She kept apologising and then ate her way back to the UK:D

Mr CDV had a huge and I mean huge guy behind him on a return flight from Vegas after we got married and the guys knees pushed my lovely better halfs seat seriously forward the whole journey, it was embarassing for everyone, us, the guy and the stewardess who had to try and sort the situation out as there was no way Mr CDV could sit for 13 hours like that. In the end Mr CDV stood up for a great deal of the time!

[floridadreamvilla.co.uk]

As long as they only use one seat then they should pay the same price as anyone else. To discriminate against people on the grounds of weight (or anything else for that matter) would land someone in a lot of trouble I suspect.

I did see a program about SouthWest Airlines in the USA a few weeks ago and their test with larger passengers was could they comfortably sit in one of the plane seats with both armrests down. If not, the passenger did have to buy another seat but would then have the use of two seats. Sounds very fair to me [msnsmile]

[Cruella DeVilla]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by floridadreamvilla.co.uk
As long as they only use one seat then they should pay the same price as anyone else. To discriminate against people on the grounds of weight (or anything else for that matter) would land someone in a lot of trouble I suspect.

I did see a program about SouthWest Airlines in the USA a few weeks ago and their test with larger passengers was could they comfortably sit in one of the plane seats with both armrests down. If not, the passenger did have to buy another seat but would then have the use of two seats. Sounds very fair to me [msnsmile]
[/quote]

I did read something along those lines last year. The complaints from other passengers were so huge the airline had to do something and selling two seats was their answer. I think it was AA although not 100% sure.

[chunkichik]

well i fit into my seat, and if i didnt i wouldnt even get on the plane, I understand that some of the american's can be huge, but to be honest, I am really struggling with my weight and always have since I was 6.

I agree that if I was spilling over into someone elses seat then I would expect to pay more

[LiesaAnna]

well i am a big girl and am desperate to lose weight! i wonder will you be weighed in like you would at weight watchers??? at the virgin desks? that would slow everything down and am sure they would end up having to take on more staff to accomadate this, and yes if someone needs the arm rest up then they would be using 2 seats so should pay for it! it took me years to decide to get on a plane, have lost some weight and fit comfortably in the seats like Anita if i didnt then i wouldnt embarress myself, and no i would never use an extension belt!!!!
lets not pick on the fatties!! we're not all like it cos we eat all day!!!

[Cruella DeVilla]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by chunkichik
well i fit into my seat, and if i didnt i wouldnt even get on the plane, I understand that some of the american's can be huge, but to be honest, I am really struggling with my weight and always have since I was 6.

This sort of poll doesnt do anything to help my confidence either, so thanks!![gun]
[/quote]

Anita,
As said in the original thread, this is not personal and not aimed at anyone. It is something that is an issue to lots of people and especially on long haul flights, which Florida is. I am certainly no Twiggy and struggle with my weight, up and down for the last 10 years.

So you want to shoot me:(

[Cruella DeVilla]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by LiesaAnna
well i am a big girl and am desperate to lose weight! i wonder will you be weighed in like you would at weight watchers??? at the virgin desks? that would slow everything down and am sure they would end up having to take on more staff to accomadate this, and yes if someone needs the arm rest up then they would be using 2 seats so should pay for it! [/quote]

God that would be embarassing, I can just picture the scene.

Can I just reiterate, this is not a pick on larger travellers or anybody but a genuine question about how people feel. Of course there are all sorts of reasons why people are larger including medical.

[chunkichik]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Cruella DeVilla
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by chunkichik
well i fit into my seat, and if i didnt i wouldnt even get on the plane, I understand that some of the american's can be huge, but to be honest, I am really struggling with my weight and always have since I was 6.

This sort of poll doesnt do anything to help my confidence either, so thanks!![gun]
[/quote]

Anita,
As said in the original thread, this is not personal and not aimed at anyone. It is something that is an issue to lots of people and especially on long haul flights, which Florida is. I am certainly no Twiggy and struggle with my weight, up and down for the last 10 years.

So you want to shoot me:(
[/quote]

yep, i got the firing squad ready lol[msntongue]

I fully admit that I wouldn't like someone spilling over into my seat, but then if I was that big, I wouldn't even have the guts to get on the plane.

Lets just hope they dont start charging per pair of shoes that you bring back!!! [msnwink] then you might see where I am coming from

[floridadreamvilla.co.uk]

Just a polite request to keep this thread nice and respect other forum users too. It's an emotive subject and rightly so, but it has been asked in the right manner and I do not believe it has been asked with the intention to have a go at anyone whatsoever [msnsmile]

[LiesaAnna]

ok boss, have apologised and deleted the naughty bits [msnwink] sorry

[julieanne]

If airlines did the decent thing and made seats more comfortable for everyone - there would be no need to ask this question [msnwink]
Doesn't matter what your size and shape those seats are bl**dy uncomfortable on a 9 hours plus flight [msnmad]

[julieanne]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by chunkichik
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Cruella DeVilla
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by chunkichik

This sort of poll doesnt do anything to help my confidence either, so thanks!![gun]
[/quote]


So you want to shoot me:(
[/quote]

yep, i got the firing squad ready lol[msntongue]


[/quote]


Please don't shoot CDV - we'd miss her [msnwink] [msnwink]

[Harmony]

Big or small the airlines should do more to make it's paying passengers more comfortable, and not just for business and first class passengers. A basic level of comfort should be everyones right not just those with money.[gun]....[angel]

Mind you if they charged by the kilo it might encourage some of us who are trying to lose a bit of weight.[msnsmile2]

Jeff

[Cruella DeVilla]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by julieanne
If airlines did the decent thing and made seats more comfortable for everyone - there would be no need to ask this question [msnwink]
Doesn't matter what your size and shape those seats are bl**dy uncomfortable on a 9 hours plus flight [msnmad]
[/quote]

That is a very good slant on the issue JulieAnne[clap] and very true.

[Cruella DeVilla]

[/quote]


Please don't shoot CDV - we'd miss her [msnwink] [msnwink]

[/quote]


[:I] Ah shucks.

[millie]

Don't think they should charge you by weight at all. I have been on a long flight before where the person next to me fitted into the seat but the rest of her squished over and above the armrest into mine. As you say the seats aren't exactly huge and it was exceptionally uncomfortable for me and I can't imagine what it felt like for her.

In that sort of case I had paid for a full seat and was getting about 2/3 of one. I think if you comfortably fit into a seat without spilling over you should get one seat - if you spill over into a seat someone else has paid for then you should have to pay for 2 seats. After all that is how many you are sitting on.

Airplane seats are very small though and I don't think anyone is very comfortable at all no matter their size. I am quite tall and find sitting in the small space very uncomfortable.

This is very emotive but I did vote Yes.

This is also nothing new - Pavaroti had to buy two seats whenever he flew on Concorde! And during my career I know of many passengers that have had the same problems.

I can see it for many different reasons, first there is a comfort issue for the passenger and the passengers around the larger person, then there is a safety issue, evacuating an aircraft is not easy but it is made much harder if a passenger cannot fit through an exit (sometimes the only exit left to get out of is smaller than the normal doors that you enter and exit by. I have seen many passengers suffer on a long flight because the passenger next to them speads over into their space etc.

So although I am not being PC I do think that very large passengers that cannot comfortably fit into the seat should either upgrade to a bigger seat or buy two seats, harsh but true.[msnscared]

[LiesaAnna]

i honestly believe that as a fatty but trying hard not to be, if i spilt over into the other persons seat then i should pay for what i am using " 2 seats!" oh crikey better try a bit harder on my diet![msnwink]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by LiesaAnna
i honestly believe that as a fatty but trying hard not to be, if i spilt over into the other persons seat then i should pay for what i am using " 2 seats!" oh crikey better try a bit harder on my diet![msnwink]
[/quote]

Liesa you will be fine just keep on with the OV slimming club!

Just to make it more equal when I had my number two baby and went on mat leave I was told that if I did not lose my weight and fit back into my uniform I could not return to work!!![msnwink]

[julieanne]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by LiesaAnna
i honestly believe that as a fatty but trying hard not to be, if i spilt over into the other persons seat then i should pay for what i am using " 2 seats!" oh crikey better try a bit harder on my diet![msnwink]
[/quote]

Liesa on your next trip to Florida you'll fit in your seat no bother at all. I know you will :)

[chunkichik]

I just wanted to say sorry[msnsad] I think I had taken CDV's entirely sensible poll the wrong way!!

I would be the first to admit that I would not want someone spilling over into my seat and yes I would expect them to pay more.

I am just being wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too sensitive here, so please ignore me.

I am a nice person really honest[msnembarrased][msnembarrased][msnembarrased]

[blott]

According to statistics, the UK has about 10 - 15% of the population who are clinically obese. So, would the airlines risk losing the business from that percentage of the population if they decided to discriminate against people who were overweight? Would it be legal do so anyway? I'm sure that there must be an EU directive somewhere that says they can't do this since they seem to have introduced some silly laws about what we can call some traditional food items in the UK!

Would being overweight come under the heading of 'disability'? If you can't lose weight, I suppose it might - in which case, there are disability anti-discrimination laws in the UK, Europe and the USA.

If you don't physically fit into one seat, then that's an entirely different matter in my opinion.

What if you happen to be underweight? Would you expect to get a discount? If there are lots of kids on a particular flight, would that make everyone's flight cheaper because there's less overall weight and there are some savings to be made on fuel use?

[julieanne]

Anita - I didn't read anything you said as being an over the top reaction - well apart from wanting to shoot CDV [msnwink]

I think we all know you well enough to know you are indeed (like all of us on here) a lovely person [msnsmile]

[trevlad]

anita. i think i mightve put the bullets into the gun. ie the idea for cdv's poll cos i messing on the other thread about excess baggage, but when you think about it, if somebody is so big that they spill over the seat on both sides, i strongly disagree that they shoild have to buy 2 seats.


i think they should buy 3, cos its not right to hang out in the aisle - they couldnt get the drinks trolley thru![msnwink][msnwink][msnsmile2]

[brizzle]

What would happen if all the people turned up for the flight were 'supersized Americans' (or any nationality for that matter).
Would the additional weight per person x 500 have an adverse effect on the plane?

Does the extra weight means more fuel used so it is costing me in higher ticket prices because of higher running costs?

Just thoughts (ducks and covers)

Brizzle.

[Frosty]

I think this is a valid question and i voted yes for this reason.

I am 6'4" and weigh approx 16.5 stone. Because of this i just can not fly in an ordinary economy seat, i have to pay for a legroom seat or upgrade to premium. I pay for premium reluctantly, not because i want to fly better than the folk behind the curtain, just purely for legroom and comfort.

This is my penalty for been tall, so why not have "extra bodyroom" seats, for people who are a little bit wider than normal.

Good question CDV,

Neil

Here are some interesting views.............


WEIGHING IN: Dan Fitzpatrick's front-page story, "Weighty matter pits passengers against airlines," March 13, struck a nerve with travelers across the country. Some readers wrote letters sympathetic to Michael Gigliotti, a 300-pound Murrysville dentist who was required to buy two seats on a Southwest Arilines flight because of his large frame. Others praised Southwest for it "Customer of Size" policy and expressed their irriration at paying for a full seat and having to share it with an overweight neighbor. A spokesman for Southwest Airlines wrote, too, defending the policy but suggesting the issue should be blown out of proportion because it applies to only 0.0005 percent of Southwest's customers. Dr. Gigliotti suggests airlines could solve the problem by offering a few wide seats to large passengers on every flight.



Bravo, Southwest




Daniel Marsula, Post-Gazette
Click illustration for larger image.

The tone of your article seems to denounce the airline for its actions in requesting this obese fellow purchase a second seat. I applaud this action. Why should a fit person next to this man have him encroach on their space?

The idea that it's okay as long as he can physically wedge himself between the armrests is ludicrous. I too would feel cheated if I were in the seat next to him.

I've now made a mental note that Southwest is making an honest effort to be fair to all passengers, and not cater to pressure from a special interest group (which, being obese is just not that special in my opinion).



NATHAN SIMONS
Orlando, Fla.




Try getting in shape

I read your piece on the overweight passenger with great interest. I log over 100,000 miles a year flying from here to there and have had to suffer by being wedged in the middle seat between a window and an overweight passenger.

How sad for America that we continue to make excuse after excuse for our growing obesity. We are fat and getting fatter. Those of us who have enough concern about our health and physical appearance should not be punished because the guy next to us won't do the same. If consumers who argue about having to pay for an extra seat spent as much energy researching healthy eating habits and the location of their local fitness centers, maybe they wouldn't need to feel the "humiliation" of having someone point out the obvious -- that is, that they are overweight.

I, for one, am sick and tired of having to accommodate people who don't have enough respect for themselves to take care of their health.

My suggestion to overweight consumers: Buy a first-class ticket so you have a seat wide enough for you, but don't torture the rest of us in coach.



M. HERNANDEZ
Miami




Obesity is an epidemic

I was very encouraged to see an article about obesity-related issues on the front page of the Sunday paper. This issue is so very important; even now, I think most people greatly underestimate what the costs to society of this problem will eventually be.

I think it would be great if you could do an article about the causes for so many people being so much bigger now. The obesity epidemic has really taken off in the past 20 to 30 years. There are a variety of reasons being identified. The two that personally interest me the most are the way our food environment has changed (fast foods, processed foods, sugary beverages, huge portions, relentless advertising, etc.) and the prevalence of addictive eating in our population.

I am a therapist who treats compulsive eaters, and the biggest challenge I face in doing this work is the fact that compulsive eating, though it affects so many in our population, remains under the radar. If you can do something to raise awareness about this, it would be a public service of great importance.

The issue of out-of-control weight and eating has ramifications for the health of our society and our economy that are only beginning to be understood. It is vitally important that we slow the momentum of this thing as soon as possible, bec

[millie]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:
Of course, I was outraged and started to question the supervisor myself in a very angry manner. I was then rudely told by the skycap that I had no right at all to be angry and that if I didn't calm down he would have me arrested.

I am a U.S. Army veteran who served during the Persian Gulf war, and to have a skycap attempt to deny me my First Amendment right to freedom of expression only made me angrier.
[/quote]

This made me laugh a little - I love the way some Americans think they have a "contsitutional right" to do just about anything!!!!!;)

I didn't know there was a First Amendment Right to shout at Airline Staff! [msnwink]

[Cruella DeVilla]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by millie
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:
Of course, I was outraged and started to question the supervisor myself in a very angry manner. I was then rudely told by the skycap that I had no right at all to be angry and that if I didn't calm down he would have me arrested.

I am a U.S. Army veteran who served during the Persian Gulf war, and to have a skycap attempt to deny me my First Amendment right to freedom of expression only made me angrier.
[/quote]

This made me laugh a little - I love the way some Americans think they have a "contsitutional right" to do just about anything!!!!!;)

I didn't know there was a First Amendment Right to shout at Airline Staff! [msnwink]
[/quote]

Yeah but could you imagine a porter at Gatwick telling you you are too fat and have to buy two seats, b l ** d y check, it's not his place at all![msneek]

[millie]

was trying to be lighthearted.................[:I]

hhhhmmmmmmmm

[christhear]

I don't think it should be by weight, it should be by size. Basically if you can't fit in the seat and will squash the person next to you, you should pay for (and get) 2 seats. Or you could choose to upgrade, though it probably works out cheaper for 2 seats in economy.
I'm am not exactly small, but not massive either. But someone who was 6 feet tall could weigh the same as me and be 3 dress sizes smaller. That is why I can't see that airlines could do this on a weight alons basis.
Mind you, how can they do it if you turn up and are too big for one seat and they say you need 2, if the aircraft is full then what happens?
I can see this debate will run for quite a while.

Mind you, how can they do it if you turn up and are too big for one seat and they say you need 2, if the aircraft is full then what happens?

The passenger would get off loaded.

[chunkichik]

perhaps the airlines should introduce a 'width restriction' barrier like the ones you have to stand against to see if you are tall enough to ride[msnsmile2]

Instead of it saying you need to be this tall to ride, it could say :

your a*** needs to fit through here to fly!!!!!!! LOL [msnsmile2][msnsmile2][msnsmile2]

[millie]

he he he :D:D

That would be funny!

[Cruella DeVilla]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by chunkichik
perhaps the airlines should introduce a 'width restriction' barrier like the ones you have to stand against to see if you are tall enough to ride[msnsmile2]

Instead of it saying you need to be this tall to ride, it could say :

your a*** needs to fit through here to fly!!!!!!! LOL [msnsmile2][msnsmile2][msnsmile2]
[/quote]

[laugh]That's naughty[laugh]

[LiesaAnna]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by chunkichik
perhaps the airlines should introduce a 'width restriction' barrier like the ones you have to stand against to see if you are tall enough to ride[msnsmile2]

Instead of it saying you need to be this tall to ride, it could say :

your a*** needs to fit through here to fly!!!!!!! LOL [msnsmile2][msnsmile2][msnsmile2]
[/quote]

Anita why am i so not surprised this came from you?????

[chunkichik]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by LiesaAnna
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by chunkichik
perhaps the airlines should introduce a 'width restriction' barrier like the ones you have to stand against to see if you are tall enough to ride[msnsmile2]

Instead of it saying you need to be this tall to ride, it could say :

your a*** needs to fit through here to fly!!!!!!! LOL [msnsmile2][msnsmile2][msnsmile2]
[/quote]

Anita why am i so not surprised this came from you?????
[/quote]

I wonder[msnwink] if someone could just take a large slice off mine from the back I would be one happy girlie[msnsmile2]

[Cruella DeVilla]

Hey just shake that bootie!

[DiannaUK]

I couldn't agree more that airline seats are way too small. I am tall and have long legs so my knees always touch the seat in front which makes life very uncomfortable for me. (I am also a little chunky, but I won't dwell on that!)

In economy I always get the person who wants their seat in full recline the whole journey, so I can't watch TV on the seat back and I can't even hold a book to read (I'm a tad long sighted) because it is too close to my face. I think other passengers could be more thoughtful at times, to make the journey easier. I had had people who I have asked if they could put their seats back up so that I can get out of my seat to go to the ladies, and they have just blindly ignored me, or they put their seat up and then back down again as soon as you get up, without even waiting for you to come back! You can only get the stewards to insist they put their seats up during mealtimes. You'd think that if Virgin, etc, were going to insist on squashing us all in, they would at least make it so the seats don't recline.

The airlines are just way too greedy trying to fit in so many seats. I'm sure that if they were transporting cattle or chickens in these conditions, someone somewhere would say that it's illegal, but as we're humans, it seems ok to squash us up together.

Whenever I have complained about this (because I have spent many a flight back standing for most of the time) they say that you can always upgrade - well this is fine if you only have a couple of you travelling (but even then it is out of a lot of people's pockets). If they could just add say £50 to the cost of every seat and take 20 out of the aircraft, this would make it a little more manageable for some people.

By the way, another difficult seat situation is when you are trapped in with someone with a toddler on their laps - the toddlers may have their backsides on their parents' lap, but their legs are inevitably in my face, ribs, knees, wherever. I know how difficult it is for parents, and don't blame them, what can they do - I've had 4 kids of my own, but now that they're all grown, I am a little less patient than I used to be!!

And do you notice how much more tolerable the awful conditions are when you're flying out towards a fantastic holiday in the sun, but boy do the same conditions seem so much worse when you're flying home !![msnwink]

Ho hum - it doesn't stop us flying though, so we must all think it's worth it :)

Di

[KJH]

After flying round the world for over five years in my job and having to put up with my space being invaded, I agree that extra large passengers should pay for 2 seats.

My other half is 6ft and 20st. He played rugby for years and has very large muscular thighs. We agreed after the first trip to FL in economy that it was not fair to him or the passengers next to him to squash up,

We fly in Premium just so he can fit in comfortably. It's not that he's fat but big. Even in PE the dinner tray does not lie flat across his thighs.

Now the children are all over 12 it costs us a fortune, something we would could do without paying for. NO! they refuse to sit downstairs without us....[msnmad]

Kaz

[domster]

Well I am sick of people telling me that I have to pay money for excess baggage, when there are people on the plane 3 times heavier than me!

If they want to go down this route they should make passengers stand on the scales and have a total weight limit.

DOM

PS go easy on me!

[DiannaUK]

My friend, who like me often has very heavy check in luggage, was told by check-in staff to transfer some of it to hand luggage (because she only had a small handbag)to avoid excess baggage charges. Where on earth is the sense in this, it's all going on the same plane, so the weight consequences are the same. [msnoo]

Di.

[KJH]

With suitcase weight, it is law that the baggage handlers do not lift loads over 32kg.

[JaimeSomers]

hmmm, interesting one!!! I am surprised that folk complain about those who are "wide of beam" encroaching on their seats, "Oh yeah! Make em buy 2 seats" Then happily recline their seats back into the face of the person behind.... Slight double standards I think!!!

I am quite tall, and regularly have to sit behind the only person on the plane who has to throw themselves back bodily into the recline position the minute their bum hits the seat!!! Generally walloping me in the knees!!

How can a person complain that the overweight person next to them is encroaching on their space, when they indescriminately recline their seat. Sure, turn around and ask, would you mind, but just to shove your seat back without asking or just plain ( or plane!) rude.[V]

Do you know how tall the passenger behind you is??? Do you care that you are encroaching their space reclining, just because you have paid for a reclining seat. And lets not forget, you pay for the facility to lift the arm rests!!

If i had to pay for 2 seats just cos i was overweight, and would encroach the person next to me, I would INSIST the persons in front didnt recline!!!![:P] I can help being fat, but i cant help being tall!!

In the same spirit of the poll, i would ask if you INSIST on reclining your seat, should you have to pay for the seat behind you??? [msnwink]

Sorry if i sound a bit rabid...but i hate rude recliners!!! i am nice honest!!![:I]

Jamie, a lot of aircraft now don't have the arm rests that you can lift up[msnwink]

[dodgey memory]

Jamie, I am so with you on that one I hate rude recliners. On our first trip to Florida the woman in the seat in front of my daughter put her chair back the minute she got on the plane. The only time it went forward was for take off (she had to be told to put it upright) and for her many trips to get another lager. My poor 4 year old couldn't see the TV screen properly, no room to move and had to put up with the evil glares every time she kicked the back of her seat which was unavoidable as she was so far in her space. Why the seats have the option of reclining but not the room is beyond me.

[LiesaAnna]

we have had a topic on this before! my hubby nearly got arrested cos of this! the people in front of us threw their chair back on top of my daughter who hadnt long been diagnosed with eyesight problems, we asked politely to put saet upright they did but didnt want to so put it back again! daughter got so upset as she couldnt see screen properly and hubby got involved with a shouting match with this fella, and i asked the air steward to help, but all he did was side with the other fella!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hmmm, interesting one!!! I am surprised that folk complain about those who are "wide of beam" encroaching on their seats, "Oh yeah! Make em buy 2 seats" Then happily recline their seats back into the face of the person behind.... Slight double standards I think!!!

I am quite tall, and regularly have to sit behind the only person on the plane who has to throw themselves back bodily into the recline position the minute their bum hits the seat!!! Generally walloping me in the knees!!

How can a person complain that the overweight person next to them is encroaching on their space, when they indescriminately recline their seat. Sure, turn around and ask, would you mind, but just to shove your seat back without asking or just plain ( or plane!) rude.

Do you know how tall the passenger behind you is??? Do you care that you are encroaching their space reclining, just because you have paid for a reclining seat. And lets not forget, you pay for the facility to lift the arm rests!!

If i had to pay for 2 seats just cos i was overweight, and would encroach the person next to me, I would INSIST the persons in front didnt recline!!!! I can help being fat, but i cant help being tall!!

In the same spirit of the poll, i would ask if you INSIST on reclining your seat, should you have to pay for the seat behind you???



manners cost nothing!!! and give and take wouldnt be so bad if they asked "do you mind if i recline my seat for a little while please " wouldnt go amiss!!!! if you knew it was only gonna be reclinned for a couple of hours then not so bad but the whole of a 9 hour trip!

[Cruella DeVilla]

I don't often recline my seat beacuse I am quite considerate to the people behind me. I usually get that same perosn who reclines the whole trip. The only time I say anything is when it comes to meals. What's the answer? Recline your seat and then the person behind gets annoyed?!?

We have started to pre book the front row seats to stop this and you also get more leg room. I think this issue definately lies more with the airline than the person recling the seat as the seats are designed to recline and it is human nature people will.

Taller people do have to buy more legroom as mentioned previously by one of the tall guys.

[chrizzy100]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Cruella DeVilla
I don't often recline my seat beacuse I am quite considerate to the people behind me. I usually get that same perosn who reclines the whole trip. The only time I say anything is when it comes to meals. What's the answer? Recline your seat and then the person behind gets annoyed?!?

We have started to pre book the front row seats to stop this and you also get more leg room. I think this issue definately lies more with the airline than the person recling the seat as the seats are designed to recline and it is human nature people will.

Taller people do have to buy more legroom as mentioned previously by one of the tall guys.
[/quote]

I don't recline my seat because of my back....I like sitting upright.....my friend is 7ft 2in...and never moans about anything when traveling.....hes just happy to be going there.....and coming back to see his family.......[msnsmile2]

[Frosty]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Cruella DeVilla
I don't often recline my seat beacuse I am quite considerate to the people behind me. I usually get that same perosn who reclines the whole trip. The only time I say anything is when it comes to meals. What's the answer? Recline your seat and then the person behind gets annoyed?!?

We have started to pre book the front row seats to stop this and you also get more leg room. I think this issue definately lies more with the airline than the person recling the seat as the seats are designed to recline and it is human nature people will.

Taller people do have to buy more legroom as mentioned previously by one of the tall guys.
[/quote]

I think we have got away from the original question posed, with arguements over reclining seats. If they are mean't to recline then people are not doing anything wrong.
The original question was should larger people pay for two seats - YES.
I'm tall and i pay for legroom seats - same arguement.
If i'm tall and i sit in a normal seat, then i can't complain if the person infront choses to use the recline on his seat, i may not be happy about it, but i had a choice and went for the cheaper option.

In an ideal world, the seating would have much more room so that larger people could sit comfortably, this would however mean it would cost more.
How many short a***es would then complain they were paying for space they did not need ?

[Cruella DeVilla]

[quote
I think we have got away from the original question posed, with arguements over reclining seats. If they are mean't to recline then people are not doing anything wrong.
The original question was should larger people pay for two seats - YES.
I'm tall and i pay for legroom seats - same arguement.
If i'm tall and i sit in a normal seat, then i can't complain if the person infront choses to use the recline on his seat, i may not be happy about it, but i had a choice and went for the cheaper option.

In an ideal world, the seating would have much more room so that larger people could sit comfortably, this would however mean it would cost more.
How many short a***es would then complain they were paying for space they did not need ?
[/quote]

Think that's what I was trying to say Neil:D, the seats are designed to go back so people will recline them and hence why the stewards will not intervene unless it is during take of/landing and meals as these passengers are not doing anything wrong in the airlines eyes.:D

Lucy, what did you do in these circumstances, although Concorde probably had a seat the size of a small car, what about other planes?

[LiesaAnna]

glad i lost 6lbs this week![msnwink]

[DisneyDreamer]

[clap] well done!!!

[Harmony]

I know of many moderate sized people who complain about the uncomfortable seats on aircraft. Short, tall, fat, thin, old, young, we should all be able to expect reasonable comfort when travelling. Unfortunately airlines like any business want to increase profit by reducing costs and maximizing income. It's the passengers who suffer but how can things be changed when there is no alternative to using their planes.[V]

Jeff

[DisneyDreamer]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Harmony
I know of many moderate sized people who complain about the uncomfortable seats on aircraft. Short, tall, fat, thin, old, young, we should all be able to expect reasonable comfort when travelling. Unfortunately airlines like any business want to increase profit by reducing costs and maximizing income. It's the passengers who suffer but how can things be changed when there is no alternative to using their planes.[V]

Jeff
[/quote]

Hear Hear[clap]

[Robert5988]

As someone said it is cheaper to buy 2 seats in economy than Business/first class.

When David Frost had regular TV programmes on both side of the Atlantic he travelled several times a week between New York and London. He used to buy 3 seats at the back of the plane and lie down and sleep for the journey.

I suppose he got 3 times the frequent flyer miles as well!

[JaimeSomers]

Harmony, i agree wholeheartedly...

I never thought about buying a row of seats!!! However I did have the misfortune to sit behind a guy in front of me who had 3 seats to himself, and reclined all three. He wasnt happy when I objected!!

I would gladly pay for a seat with a little more leg room, however it appears an impossible task. i have tried on numerous occasions to pre book seats with leg room...sorry no! have asked at check in....sorry no! There just doesnt seem to be enough of them!!Perhaps i should book them at the time of manufacture...thats an idea!!!! This row of seats is sponsored by.....

Perhaps if airlines had a sliding scale of sized seats, then everyone could be acommodated...same level of service, just different sized seats.

im sure noone who is heavy or tall wants to be squashed, squash anyone else or be embarrassed by being complained about. if there were more wider/non reclining seats which you were charged a bit extra for on top of the normal economy cost, I for one would be more then happy to pay. i just think that the gap in price between economy/business/first class is just too great.

what do you guys think?? is it workable??

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Robert5988
As someone said it is cheaper to buy 2 seats in economy than Business/first class.

When David Frost had regular TV programmes on both side of the Atlantic he travelled several times a week between New York and London. He used to buy 3 seats at the back of the plane and lie down and sleep for the journey.

I suppose he got 3 times the frequent flyer miles as well!
[/quote]

That must have been after 2003 when Concorde retired because he used to commute on her[msnwink]

[LiesaAnna]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by JaimeSomers
Harmony, i agree wholeheartedly...

I never thought about buying a row of seats!!! However I did have the misfortune to sit behind a guy in front of me who had 3 seats to himself, and reclined all three. He wasnt happy when I objected!!

I would gladly pay for a seat with a little more leg room, however it appears an impossible task. i have tried on numerous occasions to pre book seats with leg room...sorry no! have asked at check in....sorry no! There just doesnt seem to be enough of them!!Perhaps i should book them at the time of manufacture...thats an idea!!!! This row of seats is sponsored by.....

Perhaps if airlines had a sliding scale of sized seats, then everyone could be acommodated...same level of service, just different sized seats.

im sure noone who is heavy or tall wants to be squashed, squash anyone else or be embarrassed by being complained about. if there were more wider/non reclining seats which you were charged a bit extra for on top of the normal economy cost, I for one would be more then happy to pay. i just think that the gap in price between economy/business/first class is just too great.

what do you guys think?? is it workable??
[/quote]


i think there is a great difference in seat prices between economy and premium economy when i wanted to go , i looked up at the difference and found it so high! if it wasnt so high am sure some would rather pay a little more for the comfort aspect of travelling for 9 hours!

[chunkichik]

We flew with air 2000 on our first trip and we upgraded to premium economy, the seats were much more comfortable, dont get me wrong, yes I am overweight but I do fit in an economy seat. The worse thing for me in economy was that the seat was so uncomfortable for my coccyx injury, i was in agony, and no matter how many of those silly little pillows I sat on!!!! I wouldn't mind a comfortable seat no matter what the size of it!!

[Robert5988]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:That must have been after 2003 when Concorde retired because he used to commute on her[/quote]

I am talking before Concorde came [u]into</u> service - late 60's or early 70's!! He had live TV shows in GB and USA at the time

[chrizzy100]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Robert5988
As someone said it is cheaper to buy 2 seats in economy than Business/first class.

When David Frost had regular TV programmes on both side of the Atlantic he travelled several times a week between New York and London. He used to buy 3 seats at the back of the plane and lie down and sleep for the journey.

I suppose he got 3 times the frequent flyer miles as well!
[/quote]

I think he got the 3 seats because I stepped on his foot once in Toys R Us....he would of need to rest his foot for many a year after that....I think my heel put a hole in his foot........[msnembarrased][msnembarrased]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Robert5988
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:That must have been after 2003 when Concorde retired because he used to commute on her[/quote]

I am talking before Concorde came [u]into</u> service - late 60's or early 70's!! He had live TV shows in GB and USA at the time
[/quote]

OMG! That is before my time Robert LOL!!!!

[domster]

I always thought that as a safety point of view you are not allowed to take up 2 seats (for take off and landing).

So anyone who does not fit into a small seat in economy would have to go in premium etc.

I was once on a flight to London from belfast and the UK strongest man was on it (Jim Ross), he travelled in premium and had 2 seats, for take off her squeezed in and once up in the air used the 2 seats.

So from his point of view he was happy to pay for 2 seats.

DOM

[Magical Dreams]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by floridadreamvilla.co.uk
As long as they only use one seat then they should pay the same price as anyone else. To discriminate against people on the grounds of weight (or anything else for that matter) would land someone in a lot of trouble I suspect.

I did see a program about SouthWest Airlines in the USA a few weeks ago and their test with larger passengers was could they comfortably sit in one of the plane seats with both armrests down. If not, the passenger did have to buy another seat but would then have the use of two seats. Sounds very fair to me [msnsmile]
[/quote]

I totally agree

Not everyone is overweight by over indulgence.

Thats like saying a 2 year old should pay less than a 5 year old for their seats!

Imagine the claims going in for discrimiination?

[Upsidedown]

There is a woman at my wifes company who is so large that she has to turn sideways to get through a standard door. Now apart from the fact that I would not like to have her spilling over into my seat I wonder what would happen in the case of an emergency. If she tried to go out through one of the overwing exists she would get wedged in the hole. This is a real flight safety issue. And it needs to be addressed because somebody that size could and very likely would cause the loss of several lives in the case of an emergency requiring an emergency evacuation.

[LiesaAnna]

awww nice to see an old topic resurrected...... never did manage to lose the weight..... i go through the worry of seats on every trip we have taken, the smaller planes to short haul destinations im thinking are probably a tad smaller..... we're doing 'easyjet' flight in may and worrying about size of seats already!!

[lafifille]

Easyjet seats are 29''. For comparison BA, UA, VA or CO are 31''. So yes, get ready for a smaller seat (but cheaper, at least I hope[msnwink]).

[Sniff]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by DiannaUK
The airlines are just way too greedy trying to fit in so many seats. I'm sure that if they were transporting cattle or chickens in these conditions, someone somewhere would say that it's illegal, but as we're humans, it seems ok to squash us up together.[/quote]
Actually this is an interesting thread topic, and something the airlines have been wrestling with for some time. The 'standard' seat dimensions most airlines use were set back in the 60s when people first started to fly regularly. Since then of course the size of the average person (at least in the western world) has increased dramatically, but the seat sizes have not been amended.

It's a thorny question - I can just imagine the reaction to the first airline that imposed an 'excess baggage' charge for body weight! But I can understand the frustration of people asked to pay charges because their luggage weighs a few kilos over, when they see someone else in the check-in queue who might weight twice as much as they do!

The best solution would obviously for the airlines to adjust their seat size to whatever is the average these days, but that would of course reduce capacity and so I am sure prices would increase. It would be interesting to see if people would be prepared to pay more for a larger seat. The success of classes such as premium economy and their ilk implies that they would, but it would take a brave airline to take that first step...

[Katys Grandad]

As much as they might want to do it, it could prove to be virtually impossible for the airlines to implement something along these lines which was anywhere near fair and non-discriminatory.

If they set a standard weight or measurement above which surcharges were imposed, it would inevitably have a disproportionate impact upon male travelers who would be far more likely to be above the limit. Alternatively, if they set different weight restrictions for men and women, that would be likely to be challenged on gender discrimination grounds.

So what would be next? Taller passengers, pregnant women or disabled people with special needs asked to pay more? It's an absolute legal nightmare which I don't think the airlines believe they can overcome (or they would have done it already).

[LiesaAnna]

well i wouldnt mind paying a reasonable fair 4 being bigger if i got a decent size seat..... having said that even when i had the major surgery with my knee and flying 3 months later i still didnt fancy paying the price to upgrade to a more comfy seat.....:Dthink we just like cheap as and get there as quick as......
thanks for the seat sizes for easyjet.......... now im really scared!!! thats gonna be a so hopeless size for me!!![msncry] definate diet coming up.... how much can i get off in the next 5 weeks![msneek]

[Sniff]

An interesting cut/paste from today's Travelmode website on this topic. It would be Ryanair, wouldn't it? [msnwink]

I also love the suggestion for toilet paper :D

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:
Ryanair considers 'fat tax' for large passengers

Ryanair is considering how to charge a ‘fat tax’ after more than 30,000 passengers voted in favour of charging excess weight fees for very large passengers.

Over 100,000 passengers voted in an online poll to decide which cost reduction idea should win a €1,000 cash prize.

The final poll results were as follows:

. 29% - Excess fees for very overweight passengers

. 25% - €1 for toilet paper – with O’Leary’s face on it

. 24% - €3 to smoke in a converted toilet cubicle

. 14% - Annual subscription to access [website edited]

. 8% - €2 “corkage” fee for passengers who bring their own food onboard.

Ryanair will now consider how to implement such a charge and asked passengers to vote, via [website edited], on which format the charge should take:

. Charge per kg over 130kg/20 stone (male) and 100kg/15 stone (females)

. Charge per inch for every waist inch over 45 inch (male) and 40 inch (female)

. Charge for every point in excess of 40 points on the Body Mass Index (+30 points is obese)

. Charge for a second seat if passengers’ waist touches both armrests simultaneously.

Ryanair’s Stephen McNamara said: “Over 100,000 passengers logged on to ryanair.com to take part in our competition and almost one in three (over 30,000)think that very large passengers should be asked to pay a fat tax.

“With passengers voting overwhelmingly for a ‘fat tax’ we are now asking them to suggest which format the charge should take.

“The above four points seem to us to be the simplest, fairest and administratively easiest to apply.

“In all cases we have set limits at very high levels so that a ‘fat tax’ will only apply to those really large passengers who invade’ the space of the passengers sitting beside them.

“These charges, if introduced, might also act as an incentive to some of our very large passengers to lose a little weight and hopefully feel a little lighter and healthier.

“The revenues from any such fat tax will be used to lower the airfares for all Ryanair passengers yet further. Passengers can vote for their preference on [website edited] until April 27.”
[/quote]

[Frosty]

Its a very hot topic again.

Just last week it was reported on local TV that United are planning on charging extra for the "Larger Passenger"

[website edited]

As i commented originally on this topic, i think its fair.

I'm tall so i always pay extra for a extra legroom seat or i upgrade if i can afford it.

[Jill]

Had to laugh at the comment from Ryanair this morning though 'they thought if they introduced a fat tax it would help reduce obesity in this country'.

From what I have seen and heard of the owner of Ryanair his main aim is to make a quick and easy profit and the wellbeing of the nation's health would not even get anywhere near his radar.

[florida4sun]

What advantage would this tax be to the average customer? None. No cost reduction, no wider seats. Same situation except the airline makes more money!

It would be nice to see the effort put towards canvassing airlines to provide full wheelchair positions (which can easily be done), I know my son would still be travelling if this was the case, at the moment he would have to be manhandled past everyone an in and sit in a totally unsuitable seat.
I had heard the new super jumbos were going to have such spots no nothing as of yet, guess there is no money in it.

[caroline]

I agree with Martin - UK businesses have to provide disabled facilities - we had to install a new extra wide staircase with a lift to comply with disability laws (our shops are listed buildings and in a conservation area so we can't have normal lifts put in) but it seems to me that airlines get away with not having adequate toilet facilities or suitable seating for disabled passengers. If you need extra leg room or 2 seats then fine you should pay for the facility but airlines should also have a responsibility to ensure their planes are more accessible.

[Sniff]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by caroline
I agree with Martin - UK businesses have to provide disabled facilities - we had to install a new extra wide staircase with a lift to comply with disability laws (our shops are listed buildings and in a conservation area so we can't have normal lifts put in) but it seems to me that airlines get away with not having adequate toilet facilities or suitable seating for disabled passengers. If you need extra leg room or 2 seats then fine you should pay for the facility but airlines should also have a responsibility to ensure their planes are more accessible.
[/quote]
You want to try living here in Bavaria. Our office building has disabled toilets, but they are of little use since the only access to the building is via a turnstile! We have no employees in wheelchairs but one of our customers once sent one of their consultants to visit and he was in a wheelchair - we had to bring him in through the loading bay. [msnembarrased]

Best of all, our carpark is underground, and for a short period last year we actually had two designated disabled parking spaces - they were next to the stairs, which are the only way in/out, unless you count the car ramp. [:O]