View Full Version : Moving Question Please
Hi Everyone
As I have mentioned before we are in the process of applying for a visa (O-1) to be able to live in Florida. I dont want to tempt fate, but was just wondering, if anyone has already made the move can you please tell me:
1. Moving furniture etc. Shipping agencies ? How long did it take to arrive, best way, safest way etc.
2. Timescale, Insurance ?
3. Health and dental Insurance in the U.S.
4. Anything else I have forgotten.
All advice would be greatly appreciated,
Many thanks
SheilaF
flyrr100
09-03-2005, 01:25
You need insurance from day one. Don't even tempt fate by not having it. If you get sick you'll bankrupt yourself.
Obviously I don't know your work situation. Most employers will have a plan you can get into. I pay around $50.00 a month.
I've been here since the mid 80s. Anything I can help with, feel free to ask.
Sheila, if you have a search through the topics here http://www.orlando-guide.info/forums/forum_56.asp you should find the answers to most of your questions.
florida4sun
09-03-2005, 02:16
1. Moving furniture etc. Shipping agencies ? How long did it take to arrive, best way, safest way etc.
<span style="color:red">went private and used our own container and shipping, cost 1500 pounds there and 1800 dollars back for a 40' container.</span id="red">
2. Timescale, Insurance ?
<span style="color:red">around 5 weeks each way, insurance is around $300 per 20k/</span id="red">
3. Health and dental Insurance in the U.S.
<span style="color:red">
Used blue cross for us 2 adults, paid around $700 per month. This was for a no messing around polcicy, you can buy chaper but you will have to pay for all sorts before they cough up. We were lucky to get Florida kid care for the kids, this was excellent at $15 per month, but we had a big claim and the wangled there out of it (after a legal battle) and we had to leave the USA as the cost we astronomical (5 week stay in intensive care, ongoing after care at just under half a million)</span id="red">
4. Anything else I have forgotten.
<span style="color:red">Car insurance is expensive, looking at around $1800 every six months for 2 vehicles until you have had a florida license form 12 months)</span id="red">
<span style="color:red">Deposits on utilities add up, no credit for ages is a killer but did us good as we owed nothing when we left.
The red tape will drive you nuts, you never get used to it. That said we enjoyed our time in Florida and dont regret anything</span id="red">
<span style="color:red">Make sure you take out personal liability insurance, if neighbour trips over your rake, they will sue you</span id="red">
All advice would be greatly appreciated,
Many thanks
SheilaF
[/quote]
Morning Everyone
Thanks so much for all your replies. Wow definitely food for thought. Health insurance sounds astronomical and something we have to adjust to. Taking into consideration the high cost of insurance in general etc. do you think you live cheaper in the U.S. than the U.K. ? just curious obviously that has no bearing on our decision to apply for residency.
Jeff and Amy - thanks for that, I am sure I will be in touch again. It seems quite a daunting task ahead of us.
Blott - Thanks, I know I should trail through the forum but most of the ones I looked at seemed to apply to people buying businesses, I will go back to it though ...........
Florida4sun - scary !!! does that really happen with the neighbours? Even with paying $700 a month you still had to return home ? It has really opened my eyes but thats good we need to go into this fully aware and informed. Was it worth it ? ...............
Thanks for all the info we now have a rough idea what to expect to pay. Will you return to the US?
Goes off to print everything ............
SheilaF
If you go through all the pages in the topic section, you'll find moving, health insurance, etc with some info and suggestions.
flyrr100
09-03-2005, 17:20
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by SheilaF
do you think you live cheaper in the U.S. than the U.K. ? just curious obviously that has no bearing on our decision to apply for residency.
[/quote]
Sheila...
Thats the $20.000.000 question! I'd say yes. Your big saving is property. When I left the UK in the 80s a three bed house in SW London was around 90k. Thats risen to over 250k (pounds). I mean, thats just crazy!
Here in Central Florida you'll be paying around 250k (dollars) for a 4 bed, 2 bath, with a pool!
After a visit from my sister last summer when we compared living expenses, I'd say your monthly bills should be around the same. Of course that depends on weather you want full HD cable and high speed internet!
Another thing you have to realise is banking here. In the UK if you go over you just get a letter from the bank informing you of your overdraft. At least thats how it used to be. In the USA you don't go over unless it's pre-arranged. If you write a bad check here it's regarded as fraud and you can be arrested for it.
Good luck with the move. Belive me it's worth it in the end!
Jeff and Amy
Firstly let me congratulate you on Chelsea's success last night. My hubby kept calling me in to watch "this fantastic goal" !!!!
Thank you sooooo much for your advice, I am sure it will be worth it, just a little scary. My hubby is retirement age (has an idea to work out there), I am of working age and we have a 17 year old son. We just need to make sure that the right decisions are made. Do we keep a property over here? do we use all the money from the sale of our house to buy one over there, do we rent, do we use half the money and invest the other half. So many decisions, in the words of Scarlet of Hara "I'll think about that tomorrow" !!!
We darent let ourselves get excited yet, the application has been submitted (premium processing) so we should know in a couple of weeks and then its the dreaded Embassy visit but we find ourselves drooling over the properties for sale in Orlando, as you say we can get so much more for our money.
Thanks again, no doubt will "bother" you again if you dont mind.
Blott - I WILL find the time to go thru the boards, thanks.
SheilaF
flyrr100
09-03-2005, 19:30
Here's my advise, for what it's worth.
If you intend to move here for good, sell your UK house and buy a house here for cash. That'll save you thousands in closing costs and mortgage costs. Sell your cars, unless they're over 25 years old. Then you can import them here. And anything that uses 240 volts needs to be sold! They won't work here. Your TV and VCR won't work here as the USA has a different system. If you plan to move here permenently look at your UK pension. I'm looking into mine right now. It's a minefield dealing with good old British beuracracy <sp>. Pay off and close all your bank and credit card accounts. Again useless here.
Your 17 year old needs to be ready for college. Look into community college to get him started on the core classes. Then look into one of Florida's colleges or universities to get his batcherlers <sp> finnished. He'll need his graduation papers from his UK high school. Don't let him come here with the idea of not going to college. Without a degree he'll find it hard to find a job flipping burgers.
I missed the last 30 minutes of the Chelsea game yesterday. I had to pick up my dsaughter from dance class! Aaaahhh, the joys of parenthood! We had the game live on ESPN. Tell your hubby than we also have the 'Fox Soccer Channel' now. Regular premmiership games including some live! No lower division games though. I try to follow Brentford but it's not easy here.
Hi again
We need to look into the pension issue, my husband has a private pension that will initially be our only source of income. Problem with son is he left school after GCSE's and is working in the IT dept of a local company (has a factory in the US I think). My husband is looking into a business venture which will involve our son.
Not having a mortgage is an idea my husband and I both favour, having paid the UK one off years ago. We would just ship over furniture, we have plenty of family to give the electrical stuff to and the two cars will be sold.
We have been looking at properties, but can't do anything at all until we get the all-clear (IF)...
Hubby is thrilled to hear of Fox Soccer Channel, we spent last summer in Orlando and he really missed the footy. Spent Saturday nights glued to the laptop trying to find the results.....
I am sure you can get results online but if you need any info or a quick score, let me know.
Thanks again for your help
SheilaF
chrizzy100
09-03-2005, 23:40
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by flyrr100
Here's my advise, for what it's worth.
If you intend to move here for good, sell your UK house and buy a house here for cash. That'll save you thousands in closing costs and mortgage costs. Sell your cars, unless they're over 25 years old. Then you can import them here. And anything that uses 240 volts needs to be sold! They won't work here. Your TV and VCR won't work here as the USA has a different system. If you plan to move here permenently look at your UK pension. I'm looking into mine right now. It's a minefield dealing with good old British beuracracy <sp>. Pay off and close all your bank and credit card accounts. Again useless here.
Your 17 year old needs to be ready for college. Look into community college to get him started on the core classes. Then look into one of Florida's colleges or universities to get his batcherlers <sp> finnished. He'll need his graduation papers from his UK high school. Don't let him come here with the idea of not going to college. Without a degree he'll find it hard to find a job flipping burgers.
I missed the last 30 minutes of the Chelsea game yesterday. I had to pick up my dsaughter from dance class! Aaaahhh, the joys of parenthood! We had the game live on ESPN. Tell your hubby than we also have the 'Fox Soccer Channel' now. Regular premmiership games including some live! No lower division games though. I try to follow Brentford but it's not easy here.
[/quote]
I don't think keeping your UK bank account active is useless......we still have a few Brit credit cards...and our Bank account....and we've been here 5 years...a better way to pick up your credit again if you have to go back to the UK.......my family use it to put in money for our kids for Christmas and birthdays.....
Seminole
10-03-2005, 00:01
I would suggest holding on to some UK property which will give you the most options. If it is possible to buy a smaller house (perhaps with a friend or relative) that can be a rental property while you are in Florida in the event you decide to return to the UK.
I echo the comments about insurance. It is a source of many, many problems. My mother was in hospital in Florida for a little over ten days in 2000 and the bill was over $120,000. Even with good insurance, it is very common for the health insurance carrier to attempt to get out of paying bills. Right now in Florida, there is a shameful spectacle of homeowners insurers trying to get out of paying for hurricane damage - offering five thousand on $100,000 claims. So finding a reputable insurer and recognizing that there is no "cheap insurance" are important goals.
Also, and you may know this, be aware of visa issues for your son. When he reaches 21, what will be the basis for keeping him in the US?
Hi Again
Seminole - thanks for your post. Insurance scares me soooo much I only seem to hear of negative stories. I mean we expect to pay a lot but it seems that even with high premiums there is still a huge "excess" to pay too....
Re my son - This may sound niave (right spelling?) but our Lawyer never mentioned anything about there being a problem when he reaches 21. I will call and ask her to clarify the situation. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. She did say that the O-1 visa would be for the family and not just hubby.
Oh well I guess its another sleepless night worrying about insurance ahead.......
SheilaF
Sheila, from what I can see from the US Embassy website, 0-1 visas apply for individuals for a particular event only?
Only individuals qualify for the O-1 visa category. In order for a group to qualify, each member would be required to meet the extraordinary ability test. The visa is granted for a specific event, such as a tour, lecture series or project.
Although it goes on to say that partners and children under 21 need to apply for an 0-3 visa. 0-3 visas mean that you're not allowed to work.
http://www.usembassy.org.uk/cons_web/visa/niv/ability.htm
Like most other visas which are dependant on a parents visa, his dependants visa is only until 21 years old and then he will need to apply for his own visa, whether he change status to F1 if he is going to university, or E2 if he purchases a business.
Cost of living == petrol and comsumer goods and restaurant meals cheaper, everything else dearer.
Morning All
In the letter from our Lawyer it says that the best approach is to seek permanent residence in the first employment based category - "EB-1", because this process will take several years (2-3) it is recommended that we file for the 0-1 which is a temporary visa......
Nowhere does it say that myself and my son have to file individually nor does it refer to our son requiring an individual visa at 21.
This is something I need to confirm with our Lawyer, will keep you all informed......
Thanks a lot
SheilaF
musictech
10-03-2005, 15:15
Best of luck with all this Sheila - I and my family are following your story with great interest, as we're likely to be going through the same thing in the not too far distant future...Please keep us posted!
Once again, this thread demonstrates the enormous value and benefit of having access to so much collective experience and I thank the generosity of those that are prepared to share their hard-won knowledge with the rest of us.
Regards
Paul
Absolutely Paul,
I always tell my husband the people on this board tell it how it is, that is why I value their opinions highly. I think its just sinking in the enormity of what lies ahead. We all desperately want to live in Florida but its a daunting road ahead.
I will keep everyone posted, fingers crossed that we can get over the first hurdle.
Best wishes
SheilaF
Seminole
10-03-2005, 23:18
Sheila, the 0 1 Visa is actually for demonstrated extraordinary accomplishment (worthy of national or international acclaim) in the arts, sciences, education, etc. Are you sure your lawyer has you applying in the correct category (don't mean to offend if you or your husband fall into the category) - it's that your comment that your husband was thinking of starting a business with your son raised the question to me.
Newhomebuyer
11-03-2005, 01:17
Sheila isn't around at the moment but I can tell you that the family are applying for the right visa. Sheila will probably be along later and may tell you more herself.
flyrr100
11-03-2005, 08:31
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by SheilaF
Hi again
We need to look into the pension issue, my husband has a private pension that will initially be our only source of income. Problem with son is he left school after GCSE's and is working in the IT dept of a local company (has a factory in the US I think). My husband is looking into a business venture which will involve our son.
Not having a mortgage is an idea my husband and I both favour, having paid the UK one off years ago. We would just ship over furniture, we have plenty of family to give the electrical stuff to and the two cars will be sold.
We have been looking at properties, but can't do anything at all until we get the all-clear (IF)...
Hubby is thrilled to hear of Fox Soccer Channel, we spent last summer in Orlando and he really missed the footy. Spent Saturday nights glued to the laptop trying to find the results.....
I am sure you can get results online but if you need any info or a quick score, let me know.
Thanks again for your help
SheilaF
[/quote]
Shelia... your son's GCSEs are not worth the paper they're printed on here. Belive me I've been through it. I came here with a bunch of CSEs, a few O levels and a year at Twickenham Poly. The US university I went to told me none of it counted torwards a degree. I had to take basic math and english clases to just get into the program.
I disagree with keeping UK property unless you want to still pay taxes in the UK. Remember all property you have in the UK is liable for the apropriate taxes.
Banks. I never kept mine, but I agree if you go back to the UK a lot they can be useful. But in this day of Intl. commerce a Vias card is a Visa card, wherever you are!
Later!!!!!!
Nostromo
11-03-2005, 10:42
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by flyrr100
You need insurance from day one. Don't even tempt fate by not having it. If you get sick you'll bankrupt yourself.
Obviously I don't know your work situation. Most employers will have a plan you can get into. I pay around $50.00 a month.
I've been here since the mid 80s. Anything I can help with, feel free to ask.
[/quote]
Flyrr, could you elaborate on this a bit? With the "average" employee Health Cover provided in the US (if there is such) and the small premium that you mention, excacly how much health and dental cover would you receive? For example, does it cover all eventualities like the NHS does in the UK?
The $700-a-month Blue Cross mentioned by Martin is expensive, but does that give full cover?
florida4sun
11-03-2005, 11:27
Most employers insurances are fine but you usually have to pay some towards costs. The problem with employers cover is that of you move jobs, more than likely any existing conditions would not be covered. For instance we new someone who worked for 'certain' burger chain. Hated his job but was stuck there due to his reliance on their health care for his wife who had a long term illness.
The $700 a month we paid is probably around $300 more than a 'standard' policy. I did this because a freind who had standard coverage, went into hospital with a suspected heart attack. It was just stress and he spent 2 days in hospital. Each dept billed him seperately and had had to pay the 'co pay' amount for each bill. This still cost him around $7000!!! Scarey stuff.
florida4sun
11-03-2005, 11:42
Florida4sun - scary !!! does that really happen with the neighbours? Even with paying $700 a month you still had to return home ? It has really opened my eyes but thats good we need to go into this fully aware and informed. Was it worth it ? ...............
<span style="color:blue">We enjoyed our time in Florida and I would not have changed it for the world. It is mainly the sun we miss, waking up to that every morning does lift your spirits somewhat. I think overall Florida is more expensive than the UK (if you want live well and enjoy yourself).
The $700 just covered my wife and I, it was florida kidcare we had trouble with. Even so, any insurance company will look long and hard at trying not pay a claim. Its not nice having to battle when you or a family member is ill.</span id="blue">
Thanks for all the info we now have a rough idea what to expect to pay. Will you return to the US?
Would we go back? Not to live full time, I would certainly spend 3 or 4 months out there each year. First I think I would give Spain or France a chance. As long as there is sun we would try it:)
Just for a refence I honestly think a family of 4 setting in Florida needs in excess off $100,000 income per year to have a good standard of living.
Morning Everyone
Yes the 0-1 visa is correct, for persons of exceptional ability. Hubby has to work, not full time but nevertheless he has to be seen to do something. He has an "idea" which is only that at this stage to do something in his field, which would involve my son. Still waiting to hear back from the Lawyer regarding my son working.
Medical insurance is horrific, we paid £90.00 a month and thought we'd overpaid !!! I think I need to draw up a budget list, approx how much it would cost a month to live. For insurance quotes do you got to a broker who will advise the best deals ?
Wow £100,000 a year, not what I wanted to hear, sounds like he will HAVE to work !!!!
Many thanks again to all (Hi Angela, hope you are feeling better)
SheilaF
Nostromo
11-03-2005, 14:12
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by florida4sun
Most employers insurances are fine but you usually have to pay some towards costs. The problem with employers cover is that of you move jobs, more than likely any existing conditions would not be covered. For instance we new someone who worked for 'certain' burger chain. Hated his job but was stuck there due to his reliance on their health care for his wife who had a long term illness.
The $700 a month we paid is probably around $300 more than a 'standard' policy. I did this because a freind who had standard coverage, went into hospital with a suspected heart attack. It was just stress and he spent 2 days in hospital. Each dept billed him seperately and had had to pay the 'co pay' amount for each bill. This still cost him around $7000!!! Scarey stuff.
[/quote]
This is something like what I guessed it might be. A relative in California had work related health insurance which covered part of his expenses when he had a heart attack. But when he changed jobs 2 years later, there was a fortnight 'between jobs' during which time he had no health cover. He was so stressed that he sat at home doing nothing for 2 whole weeks! But he is very reluctant to discuss the details of what his policy covered and did not, but Martin's post gave me an idea.
Health Cover issues are the major deterrant in the option for applying to move to Florida after my wife and I retire. For that matter, it is a factor to be considered while moving anywhere out of the UK, even back home to India.
Sheila, you can get ex-pat insurance for the first year or two so try http://www.imglobal.com/ which provides quite comprehensive cover which you can purchase online if you wish. Generally, no insurance company covers pre-existing conditions, at least for one or two years if you haven't required treatment for them in the meantime.
If you already have UK private health insurance, companies like BUPA and PPP also provide ex-pat policies.
It's not just the health insurance monthly costs, you also have a deductible (or excess) which you may be able to choose by paying a lower or higher insurance premium, which adds additional costs to being ill, sometimes quite high ones. It's best to be fit and well if you're going to live in Florida!
chrizzy100
11-03-2005, 17:20
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by florida4sun
Florida4sun - scary !!! does that really happen with the neighbours? Even with paying $700 a month you still had to return home ? It has really opened my eyes but thats good we need to go into this fully aware and informed. Was it worth it ? ...............
<span style="color:blue">We enjoyed our time in Florida and I would not have changed it for the world. It is mainly the sun we miss, waking up to that every morning does lift your spirits somewhat. I think overall Florida is more expensive than the UK (if you want live well and enjoy yourself).
The $700 just covered my wife and I, it was florida kidcare we had trouble with. Even so, any insurance company will look long and hard at trying not pay a claim. Its not nice having to battle when you or a family member is ill.</span id="blue">
Thanks for all the info we now have a rough idea what to expect to pay. Will you return to the US?
Would we go back? Not to live full time, I would certainly spend 3 or 4 months out there each year. First I think I would give Spain or France a chance. As long as there is sun we would try it:)
Just for a refence I honestly think a family of 4 setting in Florida needs in excess off $100,000 income per year to have a good standard of living.
[/quote]
I don't think you need anywhere near $100k to have a good standard of living....we have nothing like that and in 5 years we own one of our two houses almost outright...2 cars and we have 4-5 hoildys a year......and we are a family of 4...with a daughter living at home in a low paying job right now waiting to go back to school.....and a son at school.....we came over with $60k.....in that time my husbands also been out of work.....in FL we could half our income ....its always nice to have more.....but if you know how to handle money...you can do very well in the USA on a lot less then a $100k......
flyrr100
11-03-2005, 17:28
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Nostromo
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by flyrr100
Most employers will have a plan you can get into. I pay around $50.00 a month.[/b]
[/quote]
Flyrr, could you elaborate on this a bit? With the "average" employee Health Cover provided in the US (if there is such) and the small premium that you mention, excacly how much health and dental cover would you receive? For example, does it cover all eventualities like the NHS does in the UK?
The $700-a-month Blue Cross mentioned by Martin is expensive, but does that give full cover?
[/quote]
My employer enrolls into a group insurance plan. We have around 3500 employees. So we get a substantial reduced rate. As I said I pay around $50 a month. That gives us full coverage with different deductables depending on what we have done. Also that gives us a perscription plan. I think we pay around $20.00 for a bottle of pills. My wife just had her gall bladder removed and we ended up paying around $300. That included deductables to the hospital and the surgon's office. A little better than the $10,000 it would have cost without insurance!
This also gives us eye cover. I think we pay $100 flat fee for an exam and basic eye glasses if needed.
Dental is seperate. My employer pays that. Again we have a deductable. I think it's around $50 per procedure. Different procedures have different deductables.
So, understand, insurance is something you gotta have, wherever you get it. If you plan on retireing here look into senior's plans. The bigger the plan you get into the lower your premiums should be. Be sure to have all and any documentation concerning any pre-exsisting conditions you may have. And it's better to be a non-smoker!
Also, any medical bills over (I think) $5000 are tax deductable. Remember as a US resident you will be liable for all US taxes. No breaks just because you aren't citizens! Nice thing about Florida is we are one of around 3 or 4 states (Tennessee, Nevada, Delaware, Florida) that has no State Tax. In Ohio we had to pay around 7%-8% income tax to the State as well as the regular Federal income taxes.
Phew. Is it worth it? Absolutely! I came here in the late 80s with $10,000 and my guitar. I now have a 4 year degree. I'm an airline captain. I live in a big house with a pool and drive a convertible Mustang.
Eeeewww, by 3 year old just pooped! Gotta go change him.
Have a great weekend.
chrizzy100
11-03-2005, 17:43
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Nostromo
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by florida4sun
Most employers insurances are fine but you usually have to pay some towards costs. The problem with employers cover is that of you move jobs, more than likely any existing conditions would not be covered. For instance we new someone who worked for 'certain' burger chain. Hated his job but was stuck there due to his reliance on their health care for his wife who had a long term illness.
The $700 a month we paid is probably around $300 more than a 'standard' policy. I did this because a freind who had standard coverage, went into hospital with a suspected heart attack. It was just stress and he spent 2 days in hospital. Each dept billed him seperately and had had to pay the 'co pay' amount for each bill. This still cost him around $7000!!! Scarey stuff.
[/quote]
This is something like what I guessed it might be. A relative in California had work related health insurance which covered part of his expenses when he had a heart attack. But when he changed jobs 2 years later, there was a fortnight 'between jobs' during which time he had no health cover. He was so stressed that he sat at home doing nothing for 2 whole weeks! But he is very reluctant to discuss the details of what his policy covered and did not, but Martin's post gave me an idea.
Health Cover issues are the major deterrant in the option for applying to move to Florida after my wife and I retire. For that matter, it is a factor to be considered while moving anywhere out of the UK, even back home to India.
[/quote]
With my husbands first company we paid no payments towards healthcare...or dental the company paid everything........then it went to $150 a month for a family of any size with co payments after a company buyout....now we are back with a smaller company its $90 per family a month no co payments for health for kids... $10 per illness for us....so much for dental in some cases.... with free cleanings and check ups......that follows us for 9 months if my husband leaves his company for any reason....then we pay $200 a month for 18 months after that....
Nostromo
11-03-2005, 19:38
Thanks both '100's. I think I now have a reasonably good idea of what to expect in terms of health insurance if we ever consider that option of retiring to Florida. This 'Senior's Plan' that Flyrr mentioned looks interesting and we'll look into that closer to the time.
flyrr100
11-03-2005, 19:45
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Nostromo
Thanks both '100's. I think I now have a reasonably good idea of what to expect in terms of health insurance if we ever consider that option of retiring to Florida. This 'Senior's Plan' that Flyrr mentioned looks interesting and we'll look into that closer to the time.
[/quote]
Let me know and I'll look around, see what I can find.
Seminole
11-03-2005, 20:11
Chrizzy I think I'd have to agree with Martin about annual income to live comfortably in Florida now. I heard that same number from a Kissimmee based UK businessman. So much has changed in the Orlando area in the last two to three years. House prices, whether new or used, have rocketed out of sight. I was talking with an owner in Lindfields who was marvelling that certain older villas that owners were trying to sell for $140k a couple of years ago are now in excess of $250k - an that's without any renovation work! Many local counties are radically increasing taxes on new construction - fees of up to $10k per house. Local paper mentioned that gasoline prices are expected to go up another 25 cents a gallon shortly. So the cost of living continues to go up.
florida4sun
11-03-2005, 20:15
Maybe I should re phrase that. If we were to go back to Florida we would need $100k per year minimum to live to standard that we would be happy with.
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by chrizzy100
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by florida4sun
Florida4sun - scary !!! does that really happen with the neighbours? Even with paying $700 a month you still had to return home ? It has really opened my eyes but thats good we need to go into this fully aware and informed. Was it worth it ? ...............
<span style="color:blue">We enjoyed our time in Florida and I would not have changed it for the world. It is mainly the sun we miss, waking up to that every morning does lift your spirits somewhat. I think overall Florida is more expensive than the UK (if you want live well and enjoy yourself).
The $700 just covered my wife and I, it was florida kidcare we had trouble with. Even so, any insurance company will look long and hard at trying not pay a claim. Its not nice having to battle when you or a family member is ill.</span id="blue">
Thanks for all the info we now have a rough idea what to expect to pay. Will you return to the US?
Would we go back? Not to live full time, I would certainly spend 3 or 4 months out there each year. First I think I would give Spain or France a chance. As long as there is sun we would try it:)
Just for a refence I honestly think a family of 4 setting in Florida needs in excess off $100,000 income per year to have a good standard of living.
[/quote]
I don't think you need anywhere near $100k to have a good standard of living....we have nothing like that and in 5 years we own one of our two houses almost outright...2 cars and we have 4-5 hoildys a year......and we are a family of 4...with a daughter living at home in a low paying job right now waiting to go back to school.....and a son at school.....we came over with $60k.....in that time my husbands also been out of work.....in FL we could half our income ....its always nice to have more.....but if you know how to handle money...you can do very well in the USA on a lot less then a $100k......
[/quote]
chrizzy100
11-03-2005, 20:23
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Nostromo
Thanks both '100's. I think I now have a reasonably good idea of what to expect in terms of health insurance if we ever consider that option of retiring to Florida. This 'Senior's Plan' that Flyrr mentioned looks interesting and we'll look into that closer to the time.
[/quote]
To me...living in England for the summer and FL for the winter is idea.....and something we will look into doing....I think thats the best of both worlds......I miss the clean summer air and the birds singing... we get beauiful birds in the garden.....but I miss the spirrow song.......and I don't like having to keep my windows closed to keep out the humid air.....
Hi Everyone
Thanks Blott for that link, I think now is the time to get some quotes.
Medical Insurance - bewildering. It helps having an employer to pay towards the premiums. I really hope we are able to work.
I have so much info now from this post, its made me realise that I must not wait until we get the ok (IF we get the ok) to start putting some figures together.
Have a good weekend, fingers crossed for Spurs on Sunday !!!!
SheilaF
chrizzy100
12-03-2005, 01:57
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by SheilaF
Hi Everyone
Thanks Blott for that link, I think now is the time to get some quotes.
Medical Insurance - bewildering. It helps having an employer to pay towards the premiums. I really hope we are able to work.
I have so much info now from this post, its made me realise that I must not wait until we get the ok (IF we get the ok) to start putting some figures together.
Have a good weekend, fingers crossed for Spurs on Sunday !!!!
SheilaF
[/quote]
We did it with no help or idea about what we were walking into...and we are still here......[msnsmile2]
Having a plan and figures to work with will be very handy....I was shocked at the cost of food.....and heating/cooling......but its a lot cheaper in FL than here in the cold north........you can knock a $ off of most items....like milk and bread etc.....keep letting us know how you get on......[msnsmile2]
Hi Chrizzy and everyone
Thats encouraging. Someone said to me "thats the price you pay for living in paradise" !!!
Will keep you all informed, should hear from our Lawyer next week.
Thanks again
SheilaF
flyrr100
12-03-2005, 04:10
Sheila...
I'm not trying to burst any bubbles, but..... It's not paradise. It's home. When you visited here it was paradise. You were in the sun. You ate out all the time. You were at Disney all the time.
I live here and I come home, have dinner, watch some tv, put the kids to bed, maybe some quiet time with Amy, and go to bed. Same as you do there.
I disagree with Chrizzy about the cost of living in Florida. We moved here from Ohio and the only thing cheaper is our income tax. Groceries, gas, utilities all cost more.
We earn around 120k between us and we live ok. We don't live month to month but we aren't rich by any means. We have two car payments, a mortgage, three kids to feed, clothe, entertain! If you earn less that 100k and want a good standard of living you need to think about living in another area of Florida. Try the panhandle or even Georgia or the Carolinas. Central Florida is going crazy right now. Have you heard about the condos going up downtown? Over a million each!!!!!
chrizzy100
12-03-2005, 05:04
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by flyrr100
Sheila...
I'm not trying to burst any bubbles, but..... It's not paradise. It's home. When you visited here it was paradise. You were in the sun. You ate out all the time. You were at Disney all the time.
I live here and I come home, have dinner, watch some tv, put the kids to bed, maybe some quiet time with Amy, and go to bed. Same as you do there.
I disagree with Chrizzy about the cost of living in Florida. We moved here from Ohio and the only thing cheaper is our income tax. Groceries, gas, utilities all cost more.
We earn around 120k between us and we live ok. We don't live month to month but we aren't rich by any means. We have two car payments, a mortgage, three kids to feed, clothe, entertain! If you earn less that 100k and want a good standard of living you need to think about living in another area of Florida. Try the panhandle or even Georgia or the Carolinas. Central Florida is going crazy right now. Have you heard about the condos going up downtown? Over a million each!!!!!
[/quote]
You best never move to where I live if you think it costs a lot to live in FL......[msnscared]
We only have one wage coming in...just over half what you have I think....most times with a large bonus but we never count on that...... but we run two homes both with home payments and taxes....two cars one still being paid for...have two kids....both still at home ......and we have what I called a very good standard of living for the USA anyway.......4 holidays plus a year.....we go out 4-5 times a week to eat.....in one year we had to buy everything for the new house in FL...plus do up the one we live in......and so far we've not had to break into our savings....so it can be done....
We dont earn anything like $100,000 a year, we are miles and miles off that, only just manage to earn the minimum needed for E2 and that is with working long long hours and yet we manage to live OK and in Celebration to boot. It depends what you do.
florida4sun
12-03-2005, 17:00
If I were going back:
House 350 - 400k around 2000 per month with taxes
utilities - $500 per month
2 cars (one new on not so new) $300
car insurance - $200.
Health care with co pay for family of 4 $400
4 holidays a year (good quality 4 day breaks) $400 per month
Groceries $600 per month
So there is $53000 off the top.
income of $100,000 less 15% for taxes leaves $85000 less above leaves $32000 out of which you need to plan for retirement (95% of people will have to maove back tomtehre home country). House maintenance, general living, schools, eating out, longer holidays, trips home, medical co paymnets).
Chrizzy I dont know how you do it, I really do take my hat off too you. If we bought 2 houses over there now. Mortgage along would be around 40k a year if not more.
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by esprit
We dont earn anything like $100,000 a year, we are miles and miles off that, only just manage to earn the minimum needed for E2 and that is with working long long hours and yet we manage to live OK and in Celebration to boot. It depends what you do.
[/quote]
Yes well we only have emergency health care so our health insurance is lower, but we just dont have holidays, trips home, any planning for retirement, and my grocery bill is far lower. 4 holidays a year and in management?? I have been here two years and have managed a weekend near Sarasota!!! Longer holidays, thats a laugh. Eating out, we do but we cut our coat according to the material, we dont go to the Disney hotels or anywhere like that.
chrizzy100
12-03-2005, 19:36
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by florida4sun
If I were going back:
House 350 - 400k around 2000 per month with taxes
utilities - $500 per month
2 cars (one new on not so new) $300
car insurance - $200.
Health care with co pay for family of 4 $400
4 holidays a year (good quality 4 day breaks) $400 per month
Groceries $600 per month
So there is $53000 off the top.
income of $100,000 less 15% for taxes leaves $85000 less above leaves $32000 out of which you need to plan for retirement (95% of people will have to maove back tomtehre home country). House maintenance, general living, schools, eating out, longer holidays, trips home, medical co paymnets).
Chrizzy I dont know how you do it, I really do take my hat off too you. If we bought 2 houses over there now. Mortgage along would be around 40k a year if not more.
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by esprit
We dont earn anything like $100,000 a year, we are miles and miles off that, only just manage to earn the minimum needed for E2 and that is with working long long hours and yet we manage to live OK and in Celebration to boot. It depends what you do.
[/quote]
[/quote]
Do you know ...I have no idea how I do it too......LOL...!
$1771.....HOUSES + TAXES
$250.....CAR PAYMENTS
$30.....CAPE HOME INS...
$520....FOOD.....
$100.....CAR INS...
$400...SPENDING....
$500....BILLS.....
$480...BITS AND BOBS..LIKE HOILDAYS....ETC...
thats .....$48K A YEAR....
then we have around 4k a year extra because hubby is paid every 2 weeks......that pays for the FL homes bills.....
Then he gets a bonus.....but thats an extra.....and we never count on it....
Things like healthcare payments....retirement are taken out by the company.....so we live on about.....$52k take home....
caroline
12-03-2005, 20:23
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by esprit
We dont earn anything like $100,000 a year, we are miles and miles off that, only just manage to earn the minimum needed for E2 and that is with working long long hours and yet we manage to live OK and in Celebration to boot. It depends what you do.
[/quote]
Julie could you afford to buy a home on Celebration with the amount you're now earning?
florida4sun
12-03-2005, 21:05
Exactly my point, you need in excess of $100k per year to live well. I see no fun in not enjoying the wonderful sights, food and accommodation that Florida offers. The whole idea is too move for a better life and not to have to cut corners.
From waht your are saying, then (dont take this the wrong way) you would not be able to live in celebration if you had to buy now and minimum deposit. My original post is aimed at those wanting to move over now and without a bunch of dosh behind them. 100k is a reasonable amount.
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by esprit
Yes well we only have emergency health care so our health insurance is lower, but we just dont have holidays, trips home, any planning for retirement, and my grocery bill is far lower. 4 holidays a year and in management?? I have been here two years and have managed a weekend near Sarasota!!! Longer holidays, thats a laugh. Eating out, we do but we cut our coat according to the material, we dont go to the Disney hotels or anywhere like that.
[/quote]
florida4sun
12-03-2005, 21:08
Yes but what if you arrived in Florida this morning and had to buy a decent family home, set up life private health care, private pension ete etc. You are missing the point that we are talking about people arriving now not what can be done if you have been living there for sometime, have residency and company benifits.
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by esprit
We dont earn anything like $100,000 a year, we are miles and miles off that, only just manage to earn the minimum needed for E2 and that is with working long long hours and yet we manage to live OK and in Celebration to boot. It depends what you do.
[/quote]
[/quote]
Do you know ...I have no idea how I do it too......LOL...!
$1771.....HOUSES + TAXES
$250.....CAR PAYMENTS
$30.....CAPE HOME INS...
$520....FOOD.....
$100.....CAR INS...
$400...SPENDING....
$500....BILLS.....
$480...BITS AND BOBS..LIKE HOILDAYS....ETC...
thats .....$48K A YEAR....
then we have around 4k a year extra because hubby is paid every 2 weeks......that pays for the FL homes bills.....
Then he gets a bonus.....but thats an extra.....and we never count on it....
Things like healthcare payments....retirement are taken out by the company.....so we live on about.....$52k take home....
[/quote]
Jeff and Amy
I dont have rose covered glasses on, If we have to work hard and watch our finances, let it be in Florida rather than England. The climate is a big plus for me.
I must admit to being shocked when I received a list of Orlando properties this week. Twenty year old houses going for $245,000 !!! We are fortunate enough in that we dont need a mortgage, and have just come out of paying for school fees so large bills dont worry us too much !!!
I really appreciate everyone's advice and I know you are not trying to put me off, but if we dont at least try to make a go of it we will always wonder what if !!!
Regarding living elsewhere in Florida - is that just because property is cheaper ? everything else is the same price right?
Thanks everyone
SheilaF
Nostromo
12-03-2005, 21:30
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by SheilaF
I must admit to being shocked when I received a list of Orlando properties this week. Twenty year old houses going for $245,000 !!! We are fortunate enough in that we dont need a mortgage, and have just come out of paying for school fees so large bills dont worry us too much !!!
SheilaF
[/quote]
That's intersting. Can you elaborate on the kind of property/house that was on offer at that price? I'd like to compare it with what one can get for £130,000 in an upmarket area in the UK.
Hi Nostromo
The "old" house I referred to was a four bed 2 bathroom single family home in Hunters Creek. I used to think you could pick up a resale for next to nothing because everyone wants to buy a new home, but property seems to have gone through the roof in Orlando. Why is that?
SheilaF
florida4sun
13-03-2005, 02:09
Property has roocketed in price in the last few years, combination of the low dollar and europeans buying plus a high amount of residents moving into Florida.
Not alot of people realise that Florida is a major employer, one ofm the largest ineternal shipping ports in the uSA is situated in Orlando, I also believ that it is the 2nd largest cattle producing state in the USA. Employment is very diverce and climate is tempting. Everyone wants to live in Florida, thye cannot buld house fast enough.
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by SheilaF
Hi Nostromo
The "old" house I referred to was a four bed 2 bathroom single family home in Hunters Creek. I used to think you could pick up a resale for next to nothing because everyone wants to buy a new home, but property seems to have gone through the roof in Orlando. Why is that?
SheilaF
[/quote]
Probably not, Caroline, we paid a hefty downpayment on our home thanks to the daft UK housng market and it has gone up quite nicely, so I dont regret buying here, though the property taxes and HOA fees are high. Prices have gone so high in Celebration now however that I think I only just got in in time, not sure I could now with the capital I had. Earnings seem generally lower than in the UK, you need capital behind you so you can curb borrowings. Houses are dear in the Disney corridor and on the Gulf coast. If you want to live deep in the countryside of Polk, Citrus, Hernando or wherever, it is cheaper.
Seminole
14-03-2005, 19:06
Sheila, the skyrocketing house prices are also being fueled by the beginning of the American "baby boomers" retiring and moving to Florida. Many of these people have considerable savings to rely on and are willing to pay higher prices so the market has adjusted for them.
You are talking about millions of Americans, at least 8 to 10 million, relocating to Florida in the next few years as the first wave of retirees. The Four Corners area of Highway 27 and the 192 is expected to have an eventual population in the next 15 years of 250,000 people. With so little land available for development, it is not surprising that townhouses in developments near there are being priced at over $400,000. So keep in mind that you'll be retiring to a major metropolitan area.
This is good news for current villa owners but those who've been sitting on the fence about investing are falling farther behind the curve. So, please do take to heart all of the advice about the expense of Florida living. You really must have significant financial resources to be able to fall back on.
Thank you Seminole, yes I do take the advice seriously. Its depressing and scary but its exactly what I need to know. Do you think the fast rising house prices will affect the entire state? someone suggested we look elsewhere in Florida other than Orlando. Where are houses cheaper?
Thanks again to everyone,
SheilaF
Seminole
14-03-2005, 20:21
Sheila, that's a very good question. All coastal areas are seeing marked increases in prices, even the Panhandle. Hurricane damage around Pensacola didn't put a dent in the beach properties increases, even those still damaged. From Orlando north to Ocala, there is a building boom still going on. You may want to look at interior panhandle from Tallahassee over to Jacksonville. Sebring, south of Haines City, is still quaint but from various brokers and builders I've spoken to, that will change within 10 years. There are other towns such as Arcadia inland from Naples which is still quite small but very "southern" ie, you may not particularly enjoy living there. Certainly worth driving down that way when over to Florida on holiday to see what the area is like.
chrizzy100
14-03-2005, 20:27
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Seminole
Sheila, the skyrocketing house prices are also being fueled by the beginning of the American "baby boomers" retiring and moving to Florida. Many of these people have considerable savings to rely on and are willing to pay higher prices so the market has adjusted for them.
You are talking about millions of Americans, at least 8 to 10 million, relocating to Florida in the next few years as the first wave of retirees. The Four Corners area of Highway 27 and the 192 is expected to have an eventual population in the next 15 years of 250,000 people. With so little land available for development, it is not surprising that townhouses in developments near there are being priced at over $400,000. So keep in mind that you'll be retiring to a major metropolitan area.
This is good news for current villa owners but those who've been sitting on the fence about investing are falling farther behind the curve. So, please do take to heart all of the advice about the expense of Florida living. You really must have significant financial resources to be able to fall back on.
[/quote]
Just my 2 cents....Americans retire and move to FL... but of all the ones I know......and I have about 40 houses in my block alone with people who have second homes in FL... none of them are anywhere near Orlando......most buy to retire to the sea....the house prices are high in Orlando because of all the Brits buying and at this point in time I believe thats the only reason...........what will happen in STR areas if people from other countries stop buying I don't know.....but I can't see many Americans picking up homes in STR areas in Orlando to retire in unless the homes have a golf course...when houses in none STR areas are cheaper........and also while you can still buy a nice newish condo for over 55s on a lot of the FL coastline for under $120k..thats where people retire too....not 3/4 bed pool homes inland......STR areas will if the houses are cheap enough get a few local buyers....like us for starters...and if more jobs with better pay move to the area.....then homes up to around $400k should sell easy...but a lot of the STR homes are really too small ..Americans if living in a home full time like 2000 sq ft or more.....I'm not saying that no Americans will move there to retire .....because I talked to a very nice couple on my last trip who were looking to retire to Orlando...but the coast will always be the first port of call for most people retiring......and people will pay way over the odds to live by the sea before they look inland...that may mean they leave FL and buy in VA beach and other sea areas in the future.....
Robert5988
14-03-2005, 23:30
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Sheila, the skyrocketing house prices are also being fueled by the beginning of the American "baby boomers" retiring and moving to Florida. Many of these people have considerable savings to rely on and are willing to pay higher prices so the market has adjusted for them.
You are talking about millions of Americans, at least 8 to 10 million, relocating to Florida in the next few years as the first wave of retirees. The Four Corners area of Highway 27 and the 192 is expected to have an eventual population in the next 15 years of 250,000 people. With so little land available for development, it is not surprising that townhouses in developments near there are being priced at over $400,000. So keep in mind that you'll be retiring to a major metropolitan area.
[/quote]
Seminole,
In the main Americans moving to Orlando are those who will be working there. The retiree Americans you refer to, generally don't want to move to Orlando - they have no interest in Donald Duck.
It is the coastal areas, lakes and golf courses they want and you have a huge choice all over Florida at prices much lower than Orlando.
'Over 55' communities are springing up to cater for these people. Move a couple of miles away from the beaches and there is plenty of choice for $200k or so - a lot less if you want a small condo.
For those with plenty of capital it is the direct ocean condos they aspire to buy. Which is why these properties have doubled in value in the last couple of years.
By the way, how do you conclude there is "so little land available for development" in Orlando? There is masses.
chrizzy100
15-03-2005, 00:14
My neighbour has a beauiful retirement condo in Vero beach with a walk down to the bay along a river leading to the sea....the condos are selling at $120k right now.....people retiring don't want to sell their house and buy at the same price after retiring.....thats why FL has always been the place to move because homes were so cheap....its not just the weather....Americans in the future....if people around here are anything to go by....will not have as much money for retirement as the people who are now in their late 50s and early 60s have...... what with heavy healthcare bills and monthy costs.....job losses have be heavy in the USA over the last 3/4 years....it all takes its toll....I've been keeping an eye on how homes where I live on the Cape are selling...I think like the realtors here that we have reached a ceiling for a lot of Cape homes at around $400k....we have a large amount of people retiring here each year....and I know thats not because of sunny weather...its because of how near everything is to the sea......what the Orlando area now needs are higher paying jobs....bringing in more long term locals....I know of 3 families where I am on the 27 who have sold and moved out of the area because of lack of jobs paying enough to keep their homes.....all the homes are now STR because they were the only people with the money to buy there now....I sure that if everyone looked around where their STR homes is....they would be hard pressed to find a retired person.....unless they have a golf course...or the homes are older....
Seminole
15-03-2005, 00:41
Robert, I can assure you that many older Americans are coming to Orlando - it is a far larger area than just Disney World. You might be surprised at how few Orlandoans even go to the parks each year. In fact, many of the principle buyers of downtown Orlando new condo construction are middle age and above Americans. I've seen the figures. Even more rural areas, such as in Seminole county are seeing "starter homes" starting at close to $300,000. The builders are touting the promise that even if the house is beyond the long term means of the buyers, if they will hold onto it for a year they will "make" $50,000 on appreciation. I visited a condo project in Jacksonville two weeks ago, located on the south side of town next to a strip shopping center, no fabulous amenities and in 12 steps you could walk across the units being sold for nearly $150,000. Buyers lined up for them. The fact that you see "masses" of land doesn't mean that it is developable. First, Florida recognizes the concept of concurrency by law meaning that development cannot overwhelm schools, roads, parks, sewage plants and other infrastructure. Secondly, much of the land has critical environmental concerns relating to Florida's water supply - that is you cannot pave over or develop large tracts in Osceola, Polk etc which are used for water recharge.
florida4sun
15-03-2005, 02:12
There isnt as much as it looks, a very low percentage of Florida land is suitable for building. If I remember correctly the figure is around 20%, aloty of it is very unstable lime stone and sand, you can see this when you fly in and see the 1000s of sink holes.
[/quote]
By the way, how do you conclude there is "so little land available for development" in Orlando? There is masses.
[/quote]
Robert5988
15-03-2005, 03:14
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote: Robert, I can assure you that many older Americans are coming to Orlando - it is a far larger area than just Disney World. You might be surprised at how few Orlandoans even go to the parks each year. In fact, many of the principle buyers of downtown Orlando new condo construction are middle age and above Americans. I've seen the figures. Even more rural areas, such as in Seminole county are seeing "starter homes" starting at close to $300,000. The builders are touting the promise that even if the house is beyond the long term means of the buyers, if they will hold onto it for a year they will "make" $50,000 on appreciation. I visited a condo project in Jacksonville two weeks ago, located on the south side of town next to a strip shopping center, no fabulous amenities and in 12 steps you could walk across the units being sold for nearly $150,000. Buyers lined up for them. [/quote]
Seminole,
Why would I be surprised? The whole point I was making is that the Parks are not any form of incentive for Americans to move to the Orlando area.
I obviously agree with you about the high prices in the Orlando area; indeed that is the basis of this 'debate'. My post was disputing your contention that floods of retirees would be moving to the already high priced Orlando area and driving up prices further.
I know the area well and have a few American relatives in the area, 2 of whom are realtors. Their views is exactly the same as that of Chrizzy100.
If we keep to the subject of those retiring to Florida, why would they chose to live in the high priced Orlando area? What are the attractions over other parts of Florida?
The main reason for retiring to Florida, apart from the weather, is they want to release equity. Also, as you are aware, property tax is an ever increasing financial burden and this is directly related to the purchase price.
I am not sure what point you are making about the $150k condos in Jacksonville? Surely that is what Chrizzy and I are saying.
chrizzy100
15-03-2005, 04:16
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by florida4sun
There isnt as much as it looks, a very low percentage of Florida land is suitable for building. If I remember correctly the figure is around 20%, aloty of it is very unstable lime stone and sand, you can see this when you fly in and see the 1000s of sink holes.
[/quote]
By the way, how do you conclude there is "so little land available for development" in Orlando? There is masses.
[/quote]
[/quote]
But some builders are using unsuitable land.......our builder looked into buying some land on the 27 which he later found to be unstable for building after paying out large amounts of money to find out if it was good building land or not......he dropped it...and within days it was picked up by an out of State builder and now it has homes going up on it....I wonder how land like that is getting passed for building on.......
florida4sun
15-03-2005, 11:54
Many americans are buying property in Orlando as they come towards retirement. At that stage they have tghe money to buy and look at orlando as somewhere to invest and easy to rent the property out until they are ready to use it. I sold many homes over there and around 40% were retirees or coming up to retirement.
There is a very high percentage of work available for retiress in Orlando which appeals. Disney, universal and all of the parks are major employers of retirees, so that is a draw for them too.
As for freeing up equity. I usually found they were trying to tie it up by buying even more property.
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Robert5988
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote: Robert, I can assure you that many older Americans are coming to Orlando - it is a far larger area than just Disney World. You might be surprised at how few Orlandoans even go to the parks each year. In fact, many of the principle buyers of downtown Orlando new condo construction are middle age and above Americans. I've seen the figures. Even more rural areas, such as in Seminole county are seeing "starter homes" starting at close to $300,000. The builders are touting the promise that even if the house is beyond the long term means of the buyers, if they will hold onto it for a year they will "make" $50,000 on appreciation. I visited a condo project in Jacksonville two weeks ago, located on the south side of town next to a strip shopping center, no fabulous amenities and in 12 steps you could walk across the units being sold for nearly $150,000. Buyers lined up for them. [/quote]
Seminole,
Why would I be surprised? The whole point I was making is that the Parks are not any form of incentive for Americans to move to the Orlando area.
I obviously agree with you about the high prices in the Orlando area; indeed that is the basis of this 'debate'. My post was disputing your contention that floods of retirees would be moving to the already high priced Orlando area and driving up prices further.
I know the area well and have a few American relatives in the area, 2 of whom are realtors. Their views is exactly the same as that of Chrizzy100.
If we keep to the subject of those retiring to Florida, why would they chose to live in the high priced Orlando area? What are the attractions over other parts of Florida?
The main reason for retiring to Florida, apart from the weather, is they want to release equity. Also, as you are aware, property tax is an ever increasing financial burden and this is directly related to the purchase price.
I am not sure what point you are making about the $150k condos in Jacksonville? Surely that is what Chrizzy and I are saying.
[/quote]
Robert5988
15-03-2005, 15:22
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:There is a very high percentage of work available for retirees in Orlando which appeals. Disney, universal and all of the parks are major employers of retirees, so that is a draw for them too.
[/quote]
Martin,
Your definition of a retiree is obviously not the same as mine.
I go with The Shorter Oxford English Dictionary version.
"to give up one's business or occupation in order to enjoy more leisure or freedom"
chrizzy100
15-03-2005, 18:51
People who still need to work when they retire .....would not be able to buy the homes we are talking about......maybe up to a few years ago they could....we did it ourselves....but only picked Orlando because the houses were then very cheap....we would not do that now...we would look elsewhere.....we have talked to a few of the older people working in Disney...a few had good paying jobs in FL before losing them...and find working in Disney fine because they already own their homes......they said that a common thing with a lot of their older work mates....
I just believe its a bad thing to let people buying new homes in STR areas for $300k plus think that they will have loads of retired Americans flocking to buy their homes if they wish to sell.....because I don't believe that will happen.....we are not talking about people retiring to FL and buying smaller places to live in the Orlando area so they can carrying on working...that is of no interest to people here....because they don't have cheap small homes to sell in the future....
Seminole
15-03-2005, 20:25
Robert, I believe that Chrizzy and Martin have both made my points in response to your comments.
I don't want to split hairs about the meaning of "retiree". The fact of the matter is that older Americans who have largely retired from their primary lifetime occupation and who have substantial assets are in fact buying expensive properties in Orlando. I believe Martin was a realtor for many years in Central Florida and speaks from personal experience and I am as well. Absurdly small condos at 150k do not, I think, make your point but perhaps highlight the ever increasing per square foot increase in property values.
Robert5988
15-03-2005, 23:07
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote: Robert, I believe that Chrizzy and Martin have both made my points in response to your comments.
I don't want to split hairs about the meaning of "retiree". The fact of the matter is that older Americans who have largely retired from their primary lifetime occupation and who have substantial assets are in fact buying expensive properties in Orlando. I believe Martin was a realtor for many years in Central Florida and speaks from personal experience and I am as well. Absurdly small condos at 150k do not, I think, make your point but perhaps highlight the ever increasing per square foot increase in property values.[/quote]
Seminole,
I was aware that Martin was a realtor; but don't know how long ago that was.
However do I take it that from your "personal experience" you are also a realtor? If so that explains a lot.
As for Chrizzy having "made your points". Well Chrizzy can obviously speak for herself(and I hope she will) but my reading of her posts is that she, like myself, profoundly disagrees that there will be a queue of retired Americans buy in the high priced Orlando area. Viz:
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:I just believe its a bad thing to let people buying new homes in STR areas for $300k plus think that they will have loads of retired Americans flocking to buy their homes if they wish to sell.....because I don't believe that will happen..
I sure that if everyone looked around where their STR homes is....they would be hard pressed to find a retired person
but I can't see many Americans picking up homes in STR areas in Orlando to retire
[/quote]
American businessmen are not slow to miss an investment opportunity. However I am not aware of many buying in STR areas - and neither are my realtor contacts. If it was such a sure-fire thing they would be there in droves.
It is a different story on beachfront properties which are snapped up at pre-construction prices and 'flipped' by these investors.
florida4sun
15-03-2005, 23:31
This does not mean that they would not work part time as many retired people like too. Both of my parents are retired from there full time occupations and taking pensions, yet they still choose to work part time, even though they do not have. The description below does not eliminate this.
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Robert5988
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:There is a very high percentage of work available for retirees in Orlando which appeals. Disney, universal and all of the parks are major employers of retirees, so that is a draw for them too.
[/quote]
Martin,
Your definition of a retiree is obviously not the same as mine.
I go with The Shorter Oxford English Dictionary version.
"to give up one's business or occupation in order to enjoy more leisure or freedom"
[/quote]
Seminole
15-03-2005, 23:31
I am not a realtor but why would that "explain a lot"? Frankly, I would think the realtors would be downplaying the escalating prices.
I am somewhat puzzled by your insistence on rejecting comments of first hand observers of the market in Florida. Is it clearer 4000 miles away?
florida4sun
15-03-2005, 23:36
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by florida4sun
Many americans are buying property in Orlando as they come towards retirement. At that stage they have the money to buy and look at orlando as somewhere to invest and easy to rent the property out until they are ready to use it. I sold many homes over there and around 40% were retirees or coming up to retirement.
There is a very high percentage of work available for retiress in Orlando which appeals. Disney, universal and all of the parks are major employers of retirees, so that is a draw for them too.
As for freeing up equity. I usually found they were trying to tie it up by buying even more property.
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Robert5988
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote: Robert, I can assure you that many older Americans are coming to Orlando - it is a far larger area than just Disney World. You might be surprised at how few Orlandoans even go to the parks each year. In fact, many of the principle buyers of downtown Orlando new condo construction are middle age and above Americans. I've seen the figures. Even more rural areas, such as in Seminole county are seeing "starter homes" starting at close to $300,000. The builders are touting the promise that even if the house is beyond the long term means of the buyers, if they will hold onto it for a year they will "make" $50,000 on appreciation. I visited a condo project in Jacksonville two weeks ago, located on the south side of town next to a strip shopping center, no fabulous amenities and in 12 steps you could walk across the units being sold for nearly $150,000. Buyers lined up for them. [/quote]
Seminole,
Why would I be surprised? The whole point I was making is that the Parks are not any form of incentive for Americans to move to the Orlando area.
I obviously agree with you about the high prices in the Orlando area; indeed that is the basis of this 'debate'. My post was disputing your contention that floods of retirees would be moving to the already high priced Orlando area and driving up prices further.
I know the area well and have a few American relatives in the area, 2 of whom are realtors. Their views is exactly the same as that of Chrizzy100.
If we keep to the subject of those retiring to Florida, why would they chose to live in the high priced Orlando area? What are the attractions over other parts of Florida?
The main reason for retiring to Florida, apart from the weather, is they want to release equity. Also, as you are aware, property tax is an ever increasing financial burden and this is directly related to the purchase price.
I am not sure what point you are making about the $150k condos in Jacksonville? Surely that is what Chrizzy and I are saying.
[/quote]
[/quote]
florida4sun
15-03-2005, 23:40
Did you really call them up in the USA to discuss this? If so you have way too much time on your hands[msnwink]
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:[i]
I know the area well and have a few American relatives in the area, 2 of whom are realtors. Their views is exactly the same as that of Chrizzy100.
[/quote]
Robert5988
16-03-2005, 00:05
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:I am somewhat puzzled by your insistence on rejecting comments of first hand observers of the market in Florida. Is it clearer 4000 miles away?
[/quote]
I understand that there eminent astrologers who have never even been to the moon, let alone the stars!
I visit 6/7 times a year. I have studied the market in Orlando and other parts of Florida. A great friend of mine speculates in the Florida property market and welcomes ‘sleeping partners’. CGT makes further investments unattractive for me personally – but for my son?. My brother who lives in America(albeit California) has a keen interest – but as that’s 2,500 miles away I suppose he knows nothing either.
I talk to my relatives quite a bit on the phone. The internet is quite good for research as well.
You advance your theories and I mine – I fail to see what is wrong with that.
Seminole
16-03-2005, 00:13
Oh, well, you should have explained your connection to astrology earlier.
kaysvacationvilla
16-03-2005, 05:03
Here is my 2 cents worth. Being up in Massachusetts, I know several retired couples who own 2nd homes or live in Florida. None of them own in the Orlando area. They are all in the general area of Fort Myers. My uncle did live in the Orlando area for a while after he retired from his "real job" while he worked at Disney. He quickly became tired of the the area being so busy and went further south. He is a full time resident in Florida. Our plans for retirement will be to sell our STR's and head further south on the coast.
chrizzy100
16-03-2005, 05:19
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by kaysvacationvilla
Here is my 2 cents worth. Being up in Massachusetts, I know several retired couples who own 2nd homes in Florida. None of them own in the Orlando area. They are all in the general area of Fort Myers. My uncle did live in the Orlando area for a while after he retired from his "real job" while he worked at Disney. He quickly became tired of the the area being so busy and went further south. He is a full time resident in Florida. Our plans for retirement will be to sell our STR's and head further south on the coast.
[/quote]
We were always told if you live in MA its the law to have a second home in FL......:D[}:)]
No-one we know who is retired in FL owns in Orlando......it fact we are always being asked why we picked a home there and not on the coast.....after spending time with friends in Vero beach.....I can understand what draws the retired to the coast all over the USA.......and I'm not even a beach person.....but I could grow to be one in FL.....I've not sat on the beach so long as I did this Christmas....it was beautiful......[msnsmile2]
kaysvacationvilla
16-03-2005, 05:28
Chrizzy...since your not a "beach person" I will gladly take your Cape home of your hands. My ideal for retirement is Florida in the winter and Cape Cod in the summer, although most homes down the Cape near enough to the water would be way out of our reach.
chrizzy100
16-03-2005, 06:18
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by kaysvacationvilla
Chrizzy...since your not a "beach person" I will gladly take your Cape home of your hands. My ideal for retirement is Florida in the winter and Cape Cod in the summer, although most homes down the Cape near enough to the water would be way out of our reach.
[/quote]
I love the sea...I've always lived by it...and sometimes nearly in it.....[msnscared]
But the beach in summer is not me.....we would love to keep our home on the Cape......but we always seem to be working on ours..its becoming a full time job.....we are mid Cape.....the one reason why we got Ins .....most houses near the water will not get renewed this year.....we can walk to the bay if we feel healthy.......and it just a few miles to both coasts......where we have 4 or more town beaches the holiday makers can't use.......it is a great place to live until your kids get older....then there is nothing for them to do.....and apart from the snow.....its a great place to retire....I will be sad to leave it.....but my gipsy blood calls.....hehehehe
Robert5988
16-03-2005, 12:17
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Oh, well, you should have explained your connection to astrology earlier.
[/quote]
Irony is obviously not your thing! - You were the one making the predictions!
Seminole
16-03-2005, 18:08
Robert, I deal in facts - not theories. I am here. You are not. I make "no predictions" but tell it as I hear it from many real estate brokers in the Orlando area. My knowledge is not based "on the internet" (which sadly failed you on the question of why the "masses" of open space aren't developed) nor is it anecdotal. Further, my comment was not "ironic" as you should be aware, with your dictionary ready at hand.
Let's just agree that we are going to disagree.
Robert5988
16-03-2005, 19:04
Seminole,
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:I make "no predictions"[/quote]
My original post was purely in response to the quote below which in my book qualifies as a prediction.
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:You are talking about millions of Americans, at least 8 to 10 million, relocating to Florida in the next few years as the first wave of retirees. The Four Corners area of Highway 27 and the 192 is expected to have an eventual population in the next 15 years of 250,000 people. [/quote]
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Further, my comment was not "ironic" as you should be aware, with your dictionary ready at hand.
[/quote]
It was my comment that was meant to be ironic. Astrology - predicitions - stars. Should I have said Russel Grant to make it easier to understand? Not to be confused with Sir Patrick Moore.
chrizzy100
16-03-2005, 20:02
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Robert5988
Seminole,
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:I make "no predictions"[/quote]
My original post was purely in response to the quote below which in my book qualifies as a prediction.
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:You are talking about millions of Americans, at least 8 to 10 million, relocating to Florida in the next few years as the first wave of retirees. The Four Corners area of Highway 27 and the 192 is expected to have an eventual population in the next 15 years of 250,000 people. [/quote]
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Further, my comment was not "ironic" as you should be aware, with your dictionary ready at hand.
[/quote]
It was my comment that was meant to be ironic. Astrology - predicitions - stars. Should I have said Russel Grant to make it easier to understand? Not to be confused with Sir Patrick Moore.
[/quote]
I don't think its worth disagreeing with anyone about......going by %....most Americans retiring to FL go to the coast.....will the storms drive them inland if FL keeps getting bad summers.....maybe......but not to STR areas with house prices the way they are .....would I buy right now in Orlando as a future retiring middle class American of sorts......no way.....I watched the market for 3 years in Orlando and got in quick after seeing the houses rise $10k in a few months......I would now invest in the mountain and lake areas.....land is cheap....so is tax.....its the next big land sell.....and land prices are rising as I type......
Seminole
16-03-2005, 20:12
Robert, stretch though you must, you still couldn't reach the ball in your court. Game point, old chap.
florida4sun
16-03-2005, 20:56
Ok enough is enough. Everybody has different opinions,lets all agree to disagree.
I've had enough too as this is now getting personal, thread locked!