Visa Waiver Program - Arrested not Charged

[The Cook crew]

Please help

We are booked to fly out to Orlando for our 2nd visit on May 30th this year as a family group. Unfortunately 1 member of the family was arrested and appeared in court 17 years ago. Although given a suspended sentence with no criminal record, it would seem through these posts that the Visa Waiver program is not an option. The flights are booked and paid for and villa deposit paid as we honestly thought that only people with criminal records would have problems gaining entry to America. At the time of booking the flights, the only question asked by the tour operator was 'does any person travelling have a criminal conviction against them' Of course my answer was no as I was blissfully unaware until I found out that even to be arrested would have serious implications. Can anyone advise on the quickest way of applying for the special restricted visa and how long it takes. We've been saving for 4 years for this holiday. It was supposed to be a dream holiday but is slowly turning into a nightmare [msncry]. Any replies would be extremely welcome.

[poohbear]

the only true way to know would be to telephone the american embassy in london.

[Nostromo]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by The Cook crew
Please help

We are booked to fly out to Orlando for our 2nd visit on May 30th this year as a family group. Unfortunately 1 member of the family was arrested and appeared in court 17 years ago. Although given a suspended sentence with no criminal record, it would seem through these posts that the Visa Waiver program is not an option. The flights are booked and paid for and villa deposit paid as we honestly thought that only people with criminal records would have problems gaining entry to America. At the time of booking the flights, the only question asked by the tour operator was "does any person travelling have a criminal conviction against them" Of course my answer was no as I was blissfully unaware until I found out that even to be arrested would have serious implications. Can anyone advise on the quickest way of applying for the special restricted visa and how long it takes. We've been saving for 4 years for this holiday. It was supposed to be a dream holiday but is slowly turning into a nightmare [msncry]. Any replies would be extremely welcome.
[/quote]

I may be wrong, but I think even a suspended sentence might be considered as a 'criminal record'. In any case, the fact that the person was arrested would mean that he/she would be automatically ineligible for VWP and has to get a VISA. If he/she has not declared this arrest and travelled to the US on the VWS before, it could become an issue when they consider the application. But if they have not done so, I cannot imagine why a visa won't be granted.

My suggestion would be to contact the US Embassy asap and explain the situation to them, including your travel dates. I am sure that they'll be understanding. All the best.

[The Cook crew]

Thanks Nostromo

A phone call to the US embassy it will be first thing on Monday. When we last travelled to the states in 2000, I don't recall seeing anything about being arrested or having a criminal conviction on the VWP. Then again, I probably thought nothing of it as I knew that our group could honestly answer no to all the questions. This time is entirely different however.

[marv]

same hear cook crew wasn,t made aware of convictions or given any info. We had confirmation come through for holiday 2006 from virgin today. Still they do not inform on the letter that if there was any convictions in your past life then you need a visa. It gave all the info on passports and needing visa if you have to renew it now or in future but not a dicky bird about criminal convictions. This makes me wonder wether visa is really needed at the moment.

[poohbear]

best not take a chance tho marv imagine having nearly nine hours on a plane to get there and be told you cant come in you have to go home[msncry][msncry]

[marv]

No ime not poobear ime definatly going to get a visa. I really wouldn't be able to cope with worry

[The Cook crew]

Marv

I'm sure we're not the only one's in this dilemma. You can bet your life that everyday others are entering the US without declaring arrests/convictions etc. However, like you I would worry to much which would completely spoil the holiday. I can't see the US tourist industry flourishing in the future if this is how they treat prospective guests. While I agree that they are entitled to let in or deny access to whom they want, I do feel that they are going a bit OTT. To have to declare an arrest even if charges were never brought is ludicrous. What happened to innocent til proven guilty! We all did stupid things while we were young with no responsibilities. I fully understand why the US wouldn't want life's most undesirables who had committed horrendous crimes entering their country, I wish our country would adopt these and other stricter policies on immigration here. I do however, feel that the way US immigration control greets tourists is intimidating, frightening and very very intrusive. Even if you have absolutely nothing to hide, the sight of armed border control guards with faces like thunder makes you feel like you're guilty of something and puts the fear of god into you. I'm afraid that the thought of what we have to go through in obtaining special visa's for a mistake 17 years ago has totally wiped out the excitement of the holiday[msnsad]. This experience has been so stressful.

[poohbear]

please dont let this spoil your holiday...
i am sure you will sort it all out. i have never been arrested but i have had to go to the police station and answer a few questions at my descression. so i am a little worried myself. (but i will find out when i get there as i am not going to apply for a visa for that)
i have never had my fingerprints taken.
as for the immigration officers yes they do look a bit daunting but i have actually had a laugh with them.(think they have to put that stern look on) just remember they are human too.

[Carla]

When I first went to America back in the 70s, everyone had to get a visa in order to be allowed entry into the Country. They considerably relaxed their previous requirements when they introduced the VWP for UK nationals and a number of other countries. As part of this relaxation, so that the majority don't have to get a visa, they require that anyone who has been arrested etc. declare this and obtain a visa. I've never heard of anyone in your family members' situation who has been refused this visa. It is still very easy for the vast majority of people to enter America. I've also never been aware of the "guns" or "faces like thunder" either and I've travelled via majority of the Eastern seaboard ports of entry!! They do take entry into their country seriously, particularly since 9/11, but majority of immigration personnel have a smile for visitors and are helpful if you need help.

I'm also not sure how someone can be arrested, appear before a court, be given a suspended sentence, and yet not consider this to be a criminal record. Surely you have to be guilty of something to get a suspended sentence?

[blott]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by The Cook crew
Thanks Nostromo

A phone call to the US embassy it will be first thing on Monday. When we last travelled to the states in 2000, I don't recall seeing anything about being arrested or having a criminal conviction on the VWP. Then again, I probably thought nothing of it as I knew that our group could honestly answer no to all the questions. This time is entirely different however.[/quote]The visa waiver form has always, as far as I'm aware, had exactly the same questions on it, one of which involves convictions, so this is nothing new at all and I'm not sure how you managed to miss this on your visit in 2000. A sample visa waiver form is here http://www.orlando-guide.info/forums/topic_14753.asp Question B on the second side is the one about arrests or convictions.

Perhaps the confusion lies in the term 'moral turpitude'? Moral turpitude means:

1 : an act or behavior that gravely violates the sentiment or accepted standard of the community
2 : a quality of dishonesty or other immorality that is determined by a court to be present in the commission of a criminal offense

As Carla has said, the VWP has made entry into the USA much easier for whole loads of people as everyone used to have to get a visa. So, rather than making it more difficult, it's been much easier for the majority of people to visit the USA since it was introduced.

If someone has been arrested, gone to court and been given a suspended sentence, then they obviously have an arrest and conviction and need a visa to visit the USA. The USA immigration service don't know whether that the person made a stupid mistake and are quite sensible, in my view, for wanting to check out people with either arrests or convictions. The UK has similar restrictions on visitors who come here so there's nothing unusual about that at all.

I've never encountered anyone at Immigration with a face like thunder - most of them are pretty human and humourous in my experience (and we've been a lot of times). You'll also find armed police at all the UK airports, so I'm not sure why you should be surprised to see these in the USA?

[Steve and Dawn]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by blott

Originally posted by The Cook crew
Thanks Nostromo

If someone has been arrested, gone to court and been given a suspended sentence, then they obviously have an arrest and conviction and need a visa to visit the USA. The USA immigration service don't know whether that the person made a stupid mistake and are quite sensible, in my view, for wanting to check out people with either arrests or convictions. The UK has similar restrictions on visitors who come here so there's nothing unusual about that at all.

I've never encountered anyone at Immigration with a face like thunder - most of them are pretty human and humourous in my experience (and we've been a lot of times). You'll also find armed police at all the UK airports, so I'm not sure why you should be surprised to see these in the USA?



Blott, here is a situation for you then. What if someone has been arrested for Affray or B of P and fould Not Guilty had their finger prints taken and subsequently destroyed following the verdict?

Also just We did have an awkward Immigration official a couple of years ago. She asked how long we were staying and we told her 89 days. To which her attitude changed, she said what happens if your Aircraft becomes unseviceable and you are unable to leave the country, you will be in violation of Federal Law. I didn't know what to say other than to tell her that's why we didn't stay for 90days. She then asked when were we there last? I told her Last Christmas/New Year she said you do realise that you are only allowed to stay 90 days in any 12 Months!! I thought that was wrong but didn't argue, this was October and If she was right then we were likely to be over our time. I started to think we would not be let in. We had to dig out our car hire paperwork, hotel vouchers, (Before we bought Villa). I have since found out that we are allowed 180 days in any 12 months. Does that sound right?

Steve & Dawn

[E. Cosgrove]

possibly what Cook Crew is trying to say Carla is that after 5 years the convidtion is considered spent and in this country you no longer have to declare it ( except in some specific cases) whereas in the US it would never be considered spent however long ago it was. Good Luck Cook Crew and Mary with your visa applications.

[blott]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Steve and Dawn
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by blott

Originally posted by The Cook crew
Thanks Nostromo

If someone has been arrested, gone to court and been given a suspended sentence, then they obviously have an arrest and conviction and need a visa to visit the USA. The USA immigration service don't know whether that the person made a stupid mistake and are quite sensible, in my view, for wanting to check out people with either arrests or convictions. The UK has similar restrictions on visitors who come here so there's nothing unusual about that at all.

I've never encountered anyone at Immigration with a face like thunder - most of them are pretty human and humourous in my experience (and we've been a lot of times). You'll also find armed police at all the UK airports, so I'm not sure why you should be surprised to see these in the USA?



Blott, here is a situation for you then. What if someone has been arrested for Affray or B of P and fould Not Guilty had their finger prints taken and subsequently destroyed following the verdict?

Also just We did have an awkward Immigration official a couple of years ago. She asked how long we were staying and we told her 89 days. To which her attitude changed, she said what happens if your Aircraft becomes unseviceable and you are unable to leave the country, you will be in violation of Federal Law. I didn't know what to say other than to tell her that's why we didn't stay for 90days. She then asked when were we there last? I told her Last Christmas/New Year she said you do realise that you are only allowed to stay 90 days in any 12 Months!! I thought that was wrong but didn't argue, this was October and If she was right then we were likely to be over our time. I started to think we would not be let in. We had to dig out our car hire paperwork, hotel vouchers, (Before we bought Villa). I have since found out that we are allowed 180 days in any 12 months. Does that sound right?

Steve & Dawn[/quote]Oh crumbs, you're going to start Robert off here! According to the American Embassy http://www.usembassy.org.uk/cons_web/faqs/niv/faq_visafreetravel.htm#nineteen there are no restrictions on the number of times you can use a visa waiver during any period. But it depends on the Immigration officer on the day, even if you have a visa, whether they will allow you in.

The regulations say arrested and/or convicted so I guess you'd need to check that out with the Embassy for yourself. It sounds to me like you'd need a visa but I'm no expert!

[Steve and Dawn]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by blott
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Steve and Dawn
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by blott

Originally posted by The Cook crew
Thanks Nostromo

If someone has been arrested, gone to court and been given a suspended sentence, then they obviously have an arrest and conviction and need a visa to visit the USA. The USA immigration service don't know whether that the person made a stupid mistake and are quite sensible, in my view, for wanting to check out people with either arrests or convictions. The UK has similar restrictions on visitors who come here so there's nothing unusual about that at all.

I've never encountered anyone at Immigration with a face like thunder - most of them are pretty human and humourous in my experience (and we've been a lot of times). You'll also find armed police at all the UK airports, so I'm not sure why you should be surprised to see these in the USA?



Blott, here is a situation for you then. What if someone has been arrested for Affray or B of P and fould Not Guilty had their finger prints taken and subsequently destroyed following the verdict?

Also just We did have an awkward Immigration official a couple of years ago. She asked how long we were staying and we told her 89 days. To which her attitude changed, she said what happens if your Aircraft becomes unseviceable and you are unable to leave the country, you will be in violation of Federal Law. I didn't know what to say other than to tell her that's why we didn't stay for 90days. She then asked when were we there last? I told her Last Christmas/New Year she said you do realise that you are only allowed to stay 90 days in any 12 Months!! I thought that was wrong but didn't argue, this was October and If she was right then we were likely to be over our time. I started to think we would not be let in. We had to dig out our car hire paperwork, hotel vouchers, (Before we bought Villa). I have since found out that we are allowed 180 days in any 12 months. Does that sound right?

Steve & Dawn[/quote]Oh crumbs, you're going to start Robert off here! According to the American Embassy http://www.usembassy.org.uk/cons_web/faqs/niv/faq_visafreetravel.htm#nineteen there are no restrictions on the number of times you can use a visa waiver during any period. But it depends on the Immigration officer on the day, even if you have a visa, whether they will allow you in.

The regulations say arrested and/or convicted so I guess you'd need to check that out with the Embassy for yourself. It sounds to me like you'd need a visa but I'm no expert!
[/quote]


Lol........ ok yes I would do that it was just a hypothetical question.....

Steve & Dawn

[Robert5988]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Oh crumbs, you're going to start Robert off here! [/quote]

What Me! LOL

I agree with everything Blott says.

I always advocate simply reading the regulations!!! It is also absolutely correct to say that whether entering on a Visa or a Visa Waiver The immigration officers can refuse entry if they see fit. I think it is reasonable to assume that they would need a good reason to refuse entry – and even suspicion is sufficient reason – as they do not deport people lightly. The problem with entering on a Visa Waiver is that you waive your right to appeal or review their decision.

My reading of the regulations is that it is a cut and dried case. If you have been arrested, regardless of what happened subsequently, you require a Visa. However if clarification is required, contact the Embassy.

[The Cook crew]

Carla
We feel quite hurt at some of your comments. Obviously you have to be guilty of something to be arrested and appear in court. My point is that this happened over 17 years ago while the person concerned was a teenager. The offence committed was petty not criminal hence no criminal record. A suspended sentence was given due to a previous unblemished record. With regard to the faces like thunder and guns, this was our experience on clearing immigration control at MCO in Oct 2000. Blott, while I know that armed police are present in the UK, the big difference here is that people taken in for interrogation are not shackled like animals. I was watching Trevor McDonalds Tonight programme a few months ago and witnessed someone from the UK being treated in the manner described above by immigration officer because of a parking ticket that was issued on a previous visit to America. The ill treatment of visitors to the US must exist or else why do programmes like this highlight the issues.

[chunkichik]

The only experience I know of regarding this situation is when my husband and five others were granted offers of employment in North Carolina.

They were all told not to tell the officials that they were there to tour their employment facilities but to state they were on vacation.

One member inadvertantly told the officials they had been offered a job and the second had filled in the visa waiver stating that they had been arrested with a suspended sentence on a drug related charge.

These two men, never made if further than the airport and were put back on the same plane home.

I am unsure if any lenghth of time from the conviction would make a difference, but would urge contacting the embassy, they are very helpful and you should have plenty of time to apply for the visa if necessary.

Good luck cook crew, I am sure it will go all go smoothly and you have a wonderful time

[Carla]

Cook Crew, I don't understand why you feel hurt at my question. You wrote in your post:

Although given a suspended sentence with no criminal record

and I couldn't see why you felt that a suspended sentence meant that the person didn't have a criminal record. I've no experience of any of this, so merely asked the question.

The ill treatment of visitors to the US must exist or else why do programmes like this highlight the issues.

Because they are sensational and make for a good story. They never highlight just how extremely rare this is, or give you the whole story.

It's the same with programs about owning a home in Florida. Those of us who do own a home, cringe, when we watch these programs, at all the blatant lies, and "twisting" of facts into something that we don't recognise at all.

It wouldn't make good television if they told the truth.

[The Cook crew]

Like you Carla, I have no experience of getting on the wrong side of the law. Your statement "I'm also not sure how someone can be arrested, appear before a court, be given a suspended sentence, and yet not consider this to be a criminal record" came across as being judgemental. The purpose of my original posting was for advice on the quickest way of applying for the special restricted visa and how long it takes to receive. I simply wanted to hear from anyone who had experienced similar problems as result of arrest or court appearance.

[Carla]

My statement certainly wasn't meant to be judgmental in any way. Perhaps you are feeling sensitive to the comment because the whole process has upset you, and you are finding it stressful. It's one of those situations where had we been talking face to face you would have realised that the entire paragraph was basically a question.

I did also write that "I've never heard of anyone in your family members' situation who has been refused this visa" so the sooner it's applied for the better and then you can relax and enjoy planning your vacation.

The main reason that I posted in the first place, was because I have not experienced what you described on your previous entry to America. I've been visiting America on average 5 times per year for a number of years now, and I felt qualified to respond to your comments (as did Blott) and to reassure others that what you described is most definitely very far from the norm.

[Katys Grandad]

Without wishing to inflame this already fairly heated debate, aa someone who has worked within the criminal justice system all my adult life, I can say with complete certainty that if a sentence of any sort was passed then there has to be a 'criminal' conviction. The key issue is the CONVICTION not the SENTENCE.

Although this is a personal view, I think there is great hypocricy on the part of the US when it comes to entry to the country. I assume that the British entertainer who performed at last week's Superbowl had little difficulty entering Florida despite his own convictions.

[chrizzy100]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Katys Grandad
Without wishing to inflame this already fairly heated debate, aa someone who has worked within the criminal justice system all my adult life, I can say with complete certainty that if a sentence of any sort was passed then there has to be a 'criminal' conviction. The key issue is the CONVICTION not the SENTENCE.

Although this is a personal view, I think there is great hypocricy on the part of the US when it comes to entry to the country. I assume that the British entertainer who performed at last week's Superbowl had little difficulty entering Florida despite his own convictions.
[/quote]

I'm sure he had the right visa to entre the country....no-one is saying that the US will not give you a visa if you have convictions....the problem is knowing if you need one or not........

[poohbear]

is the entry to britain as complex as the entry to the us?

[steph_goodrum]

"is the entry to britain as complex as the entry to the us?"

Not if your name is Mike Tyson! :)

[flyrr100]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by The Cook crew
I do however, feel that the way US immigration control greets tourists is intimidating, frightening and very very intrusive. Even if you have absolutely nothing to hide, the sight of armed border control guards with faces like thunder makes you feel like you're guilty of something and puts the fear of god into you.
[/quote]

We have armed border guards because ALL law enforcement officers in the US are armed. If you are intimidated by this then spend your vacations in Bognor. Everywhere you go you'll see armed cops. But belive me, they won't draw their weapons and start shooting. Really! You are perfectly safe here. Partly because of the armed thunder-faced law enforcement people.

As for your family member having a criminal record, or not. Call the embassy. If his record is clean you have nothing to worry about.

If Brits with 17 year old petty records were our biggest worry here, the USA would be the safest place on earth to live! But unfortunately we have to contend with some pretty awfull types. All offenders are grouped together in the eyes of the Department of Home Security. The murderers and the speeders are all criminals in this post 9/11 world.

Good luck with your trip. The USA is a wonderful place to visit or to live.

[caron]

help a member of our party has convivtions dating back 8 years and we are due to travel at the end of august we have only just found out about this vwp as the holiday is a last minute booking what does any one suggest

[wiljohn]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by caron
help a member of our party has convivtions dating back 8 years and we are due to travel at the end of august we have only just found out about this vwp as the holiday is a last minute booking what does any one suggest
[/quote]

The fact is they probably aren't allowed to use the vwp,depending on the crime comitted,the individual could interpret the questions on the green form (moral terpitude),as not applicable to them.
It's a risky strategy, but with so little time,there aren't that many options.
Others will disagree, its your choice!