View Full Version : Having a child in the US
My fiance and I are hoping to move to the US one way or another. We are yet to look at the possibility of having children as I for one am only 21.
If we were to fall pregnant in the US one day while on an E visa or other visa, and our child is born in the US - does this make them a US citizen? What would then happen if we subsequently were denied an E2 visa renewal. What happens to our child that would be a US citizen? Can we automatically apply for a green card because our child is a us citizen and what happens about taking him/her to the UK if we had our renewal denied?
The answers are probably obvious - but no question seems stupid in this visa process!!!
Nostromo
20-01-2005, 21:20
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by ajay83
If <span style="color:red">we</span id="red"> were to fall pregnant in the US one day while on an E visa or other visa, and our child is born in the US - does this make them a US citizen? What would then happen if we subsequently were denied an E2 visa renewal. What happens to our child that would be a US citizen? Can we automatically apply for a green card because our child is a us citizen and what happens about taking him/her to the UK if we had our renewal denied?
The answers are probably obvious - but no question seems stupid in this visa process!!!
[/quote]
That would be quite an achievement, 'Junior' notwithstanding! ;);)
E. Cosgrove
20-01-2005, 22:13
I know a little bit about bringing your child back to the UK as it applies to my BIL. All his children were born in the US, both he and his partner have green cards. When they return to the UK permanently as they hope to one day they can apply for UK passports for the children, therein lies the stunbling block. One or other has to have a UK passport and be born in this country. My BIL has a UK passport and was born in England but this will not help as they are not married so they will not recognize him as the childrens father for this purpose.His partner has a UK passport but is British by naturalization ( she was born outside the UK to British parents)and naturalization can only apply to the first generation, goodness knows what they will do!!! <blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by ajay83
My fiance and I are hoping to move to the US one way or another. We are yet to look at the possibility of having children as I for one am only 21.
If we were to fall pregnant in the US one day while on an E visa or other visa, and our child is born in the US - does this make them a US citizen? What would then happen if we subsequently were denied an E2 visa renewal. What happens to our child that would be a US citizen? Can we automatically apply for a green card because our child is a us citizen and what happens about taking him/her to the UK if we had our renewal denied?
The answers are probably obvious - but no question seems stupid in this visa process!!!
[/quote]
steph_goodrum
20-01-2005, 23:57
Liz
Simple solution - get married?
The child would be a US citizen. He would have dual British nationality because he is born of British parents, you would need to apply for a British passport for him if you were going home for good. He can sponsor his parents for a green card.... when he reaches 21 years old!!. So having a child in the US does not help your visa situation at all in the short term, I know a couple of people here on E2 with American born kids, kids are American, parents still on E2.
Seems a bit harsh if for whatever reason parents with E2 visas got sent home, and they would have to take their american citizen kids out of the country!
Would just like to add that i only asked the question because my fiance and I will be having kids one day - not because we want a reason to have a green card!
chrizzy100
21-01-2005, 18:18
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by ajay83
Seems a bit harsh if for whatever reason parents with E2 visas got sent home, and they would have to take their american citizen kids out of the country!
Would just like to add that i only asked the question because my fiance and I will be having kids one day - not because we want a reason to have a green card!
[/quote]
I've had friends sent home with kids who are American......the kids can come back when older....
E. Cosgrove
21-01-2005, 23:06
Partner doesn't believe in marriage.......she might have to:D<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by steph_goodrum
Liz
Simple solution - get married?
[/quote]
Robert5988
21-01-2005, 23:51
Mmm - Just thinking out loud.
If someone went on holiday(on a Visa Waiver) whilst pregnant and just happened to give birth prematurely - the duelling dragons might do it!! - presumably the child would also have dual citizenship?
Yes they would Robert (you're not thinking of trying it? ;)). http://www.usembassy.org.uk/cons_web/faqs/faqs-citz.htm
andrewmckay5
22-01-2005, 00:42
In that case Blott it would be "relatively" easy to work the big day around a 6 month visit.
No plans in that direction just thinking out loud[msnsmile2]
Also, again out of general interest does anyone know the situation if you go out on an E2 for example and the child is not yet school age, what happens when the child is 21 and has spent all their education and possibly upto 18 or 19 years in the US?
andrew
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by blott
Yes they would Robert (you're not thinking of trying it? ;)). http://www.usembassy.org.uk/cons_web/faqs/faqs-citz.htm
[/quote]
But can you be patient for another 21 years until the child is old enough to sponsor you? ;)
Robert5988
22-01-2005, 00:59
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Yes they would Robert (you're not thinking of trying it? ). [/quote]
Well I could help set things in motion if required!
Robert
The answer to Andrew's Question is that the child at the age of 21 would have to leave the US regardless of having spent almost their whole lives here, unless they had some other Visa ( e.g.student ) or some other way of changing status such as being married to a U.S. citizen. It is very harsh, but that's the rule.
andrewmckay5
22-01-2005, 01:51
Thanks Marie,
I wonder how many people get over on an E2 and don't relise the full implications?
I know Espirit has been very open about her concerns.
andrew
Nostromo
22-01-2005, 02:15
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by E. Cosgrove
Partner doesn't believe in marriage.......she might have to:D<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by steph_goodrum
Liz
Simple solution - get married?
[/quote]
[/quote]
Liz, when I read this post for the first time, I did not realise that you were talking about your BIL. So I thought "My God, I thought I knew her reasonably well!", before realising my error. [msnwink][msnwink][laugh][laugh]
The question Andrew asked was about E2 children brought here as babies or very young children not children born in the US and yes, 21 year old e2 kids brought in as babies, here for 20 years talking in American accents, knowing nothing of the UK and as American in arritude and education as apple pie can be sent to the UK which is an alien coumtry to them so I wont describe it as sent home. IF the DREAM act ever gets passed, it will correct this by giving a green card to any child who has spent 5 years in US education before his 16th birthday provided he then gets a college degree or serves a term in military service. However it is held up at the mo as it is coming under severe opposition. This is what happened to the retirees visa in 1999 and that went down the plug hole.
Ways around it?
Change status to F1 student then to Hib after labor cerification except that they have been capped out of existance. Marry an American :) or buy them their own business on e2 and self perpetuate.
Most people going out on E2 know about this and stick their heads in the sand as I did. Yes I have been very open about my concerns on it, I would go further and say as a visa it pretty much sucks. You can come here with a job offer and go to green card and citizenship in say 8 years. E2-ers invest a mimumim of $100,000 in the US ecomony, provide employment for Americans and yet I have known people here for 17 years still coping with the same [bad language filtered out] about renewals and kids. If they had come over and overstayed instead of getting a visa, they would have been amnesteyed years ago and have got a green card by now, You meet people all the time who smirkingly tell you they did that and it galls!!!!!! Not as I am advocating overstaying, but the law doesnt seem here to be on the side of the righteous.
E. Cosgrove
22-01-2005, 13:23
That's how rumours start Nostromo[msnwink]<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Nostromo
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by E. Cosgrove
Partner doesn't believe in marriage.......she might have to:D<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by steph_goodrum
Liz
Simple solution - get married?
[/quote]
[/quote]
Liz, when I read this post for the first time, I did not realise that you were talking about your BIL. So I thought "My God, I thought I knew her reasonably well!", before realising my error. [msnwink][msnwink][laugh][laugh]
[/quote]
flyrr100
22-01-2005, 15:17
A few points...
Does anyone have a clue what it costs to have a child in the USA? It's not cheap! Bring your fat wallets with you! Check your UK travel insurance to make sure it covers child birth.
On a seperate note........ I remember it used to be the case that if a foreign national joined the US military he/she would be eligible for citizenship when the enlistment was over.
Juat a thought! HoooooRahhhh
[msneek]
Not sure if that is still the case in these days of paranoia, flyrr, though my 19 year old son regularly gets mailshots about joining up, I think because he is on some mailimg list as having graduated with a good GPA. Thinks, would I want him to join up in these days of body bags arriving back from Iraq for a green card, and I think tne answer would have to be not, in any case.
We had our first child in America (Doylestown, PA) and the cost 17 years ago was $8,000, but fortunately the company my husband worked for at the time paid our costs.
I need to look into my daugter getting American citizanship I guess before her 18th birthday. She wants to work in America, but as she is going into nursing as a career I don't think it would be too difficult for her to work there without the US citizenship anyway.
andrewmckay5
22-01-2005, 20:47
These comments are just for discussion and not meant to offend anyone, especially any US readers as obviously any country is justified in their own immigration policy and some may say trhe UK is too lax but that is definitely a different area. But I cannot understand the US mindset over these issues. Yes if you believe Americans are losing jobs to immigrants then stop the immigration. But if someone wants to retire to the US for exampleand can prove they are wealthy enough and won't be a drain, then why stop them coming in ? Surely its just bring cash into the US economy.
Just wondered what others thought.
andrew
chrizzy100
22-01-2005, 20:56
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by dbrook
We had our first child in America (Doylestown, PA) and the cost 17 years ago was $8,000, but fortunately the company my husband worked for at the time paid our costs.
I need to look into my daugter getting American citizanship I guess before her 18th birthday. She wants to work in America, but as she is going into nursing as a career I don't think it would be too difficult for her to work there without the US citizenship anyway.
[/quote]
I have heard horror stories about costs if things go wrong....funny enough I watch a day time show about it not long ago.....I'd make sure I had full cover for childbirth before trying for a baby....and also make sure the new born is covered too......never just think that you have cover.....read everything.....a hospital stay is around $2500 a night just the stay nothing else....just think what it would be if your newborn was in a babycare unit.....millions were talked about in the show.....
Nostromo
22-01-2005, 21:35
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by dbrook
We had our first child in America (Doylestown, PA) and the cost 17 years ago was $8,000, but fortunately the company my husband worked for at the time paid our costs.
[/quote]
OMG and a half! Would you mind telling me what those charges were for? I mean, was it a straightforward birth or were there problems? Seems a awful lot to me for a FTND.
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by andrewmckay5
These comments are just for discussion and not meant to offend anyone, especially any US readers as obviously any country is justified in their own immigration policy and some may say trhe UK is too lax but that is definitely a different area. But I cannot understand the US mindset over these issues. Yes if you believe Americans are losing jobs to immigrants then stop the immigration. But if someone wants to retire to the US for exampleand can prove they are wealthy enough and won't be a drain, then why stop them coming in ? Surely its just bring cash into the US economy.
Just wondered what others thought.
andrew[/quote]Perhaps they don't want to be swamped in certain areas with a population boosted by loads of elderly people? Places like Florida are already retirement magnet havens for the rest of the USA and, whilst I'm not saying there wouldn't be room for everyone as that would be absurd, you do need facilities so, if you're running a government, it's presumably something that you need to bear in mind?
The main problem, it seems to me, is that anyone there 'temporarily' ie not a citizen, has no vote or say in what happens. Senators, etc obviously feel less inclined to bother about people who don't have votes as they're not the ones who will elect or keep them in office. No-one, therefore, will do anything about the situation as it's not going to 'pay' anything.
Robert5988
22-01-2005, 22:11
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:These comments are just for discussion and not meant to offend anyone, especially any US readers as obviously any country is justified in their own immigration policy and some may say trhe UK is too lax but that is definitely a different area. But I cannot understand the US mindset over these issues. Yes if you believe Americans are losing jobs to immigrants then stop the immigration. But if someone wants to retire to the US for exampleand can prove they are wealthy enough and won't be a drain, then why stop them coming in ? Surely its just bring cash into the US economy.
Just wondered what others thought.
[/quote]
Andrew,
I couldn’t agree with you more.
America has droves of penniless illegal immigrants from Mexico, Cuba etc working in the USA who the authorities largely turn a blind eye to once they gain entry; and it looks very likely that many will be granted an amnesty and eventually US citizenship. – Well it helps to have the Hispanic vote in Florida!
On the other hand there is paranoia in UK about USA immigration policy. We have upstanding citizens worried about a UK court appearance for speeding restricting their entry, and arguments about how long you can remain on multiple visits under the Visa Waiver scheme. It is part of the British mentality to look at regulations and see if there is a way we can interpret them to our disadvantage.
Whilst I agree with you in principle about retiring, I think the problem with allowing citizens to retire in the USA permanently is in verifying that they are indeed wealthy enough. We are all aware that medical costs can reduce a millionaire to a pauper overnight. They might have medical insurance initially but would/could they renew it? It would not look good to deport the elderly and sick because they had run out of funds.
It is my contention that the regulations allow those, with the financial means, to (effectively) stay as long as they like under the terms of the Visa Waiver scheme. I personally think that the US authorities have no difficulty with this principle for the reasons you state – it supports the US economy. The requirement to leave and re-enter after a maximum of 3 months gives the US authorities control over the situation.
To hopefully forestall some responses to the last paragraph I re-iterate that I am giving an opinion. Quoting what some ‘jobsworth’ immigration officer reputedly said does not override the regulations. Neither does a ‘personal’ interpretation of what the regulations really mean, but don’t say.
Robert
Ok perhaps I would agree about the retirement visa, but the original topic was about E2 and having a child and the people on E2 are not retirees, we are not allowed to be, we invest hugely in the US economy both in money, taxes and the wages we pay US employees and yet even a e2 couple who have had a child born in the US who is a US citizen can still be sent home and a child brought out as a baby and spending 20 years in the country can still be sent back at 21. Problem is we have no vote, no lobbying power unlike the hispanics you mention, Robert, so who cares. Most Americans are not at all offended or take this as criticism, most are totally aghast that we dont have a green card and never will have, most cant believe it and cant comprehend why. I have had it said to me over and over.
andrewmckay5
23-01-2005, 15:57
"To hopefully forestall some responses to the last paragraph I re-iterate that I am giving an opinion. Quoting what some ‘jobsworth’ immigration officer reputedly said does not override the regulations. Neither does a ‘personal’ interpretation of what the regulations really mean, but don’t say."
Robert,
aswell as the Birtish mentality of seeing the disadvantages and inherently playing by the rules, I think you can now add our fear of offending anyone on the internet by stating an observation or opinion. We all seem to preface any comments with a disclaimer so nobody takes it the wrong way!
I see where you are coming from with the retirement issue and ongoing funds but the situation Esprit is in I just cannot understand; not why shes done it but why there is no progression to Green Card even if it was after a number of years just prove your committment and the ongoing investment.
So much for the "Special Relationship." I think it is very telling when she says most ordinary Americans are "totally aghast."
andrew
E. Cosgrove
23-01-2005, 17:08
No midwives to do the work for free!! [msnwink] <blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Nostromo
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by dbrook
We had our first child in America (Doylestown, PA) and the cost 17 years ago was $8,000, but fortunately the company my husband worked for at the time paid our costs.
[/quote]
OMG and a half! Would you mind telling me what those charges were for? I mean, was it a straightforward birth or were there problems? Seems a awful lot to me for a FTND.
[/quote]
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by E. Cosgrove
No midwives to do the work for free!! [/quote]Don't UK midwives get a salary then? [msnoo][msnwink]
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by esprit
The child would be a US citizen. He would have dual British nationality because he is born of British parents, you would need to apply for a British passport for him if you were going home for good. He can sponsor his parents for a green card.... when he reaches 21 years old!!. So having a child in the US does not help your visa situation at all in the short term, I know a couple of people here on E2 with American born kids, kids are American, parents still on E2.
[/quote]
When child reaches 21 they can sponsor parents, but "support" would be the crucial word here, without meeting certain criteria your childs US status wont guarantee a green card.
Nostromo
23-01-2005, 20:35
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by blott
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by E. Cosgrove
No midwives to do the work for free!! [/quote]Don't UK midwives get a salary then? [msnoo][msnwink]
[/quote]
Not nearly enough considering the degree of responsibility and workload. Am I right, Liz?
Robert5988
24-01-2005, 00:38
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:"To hopefully forestall some responses to the last paragraph I re-iterate that I am giving an opinion. Quoting what some ‘jobsworth’ immigration officer reputedly said does not override the regulations. Neither does a ‘personal’ interpretation of what the regulations really mean, but don’t say."
Robert,
aswell as the Birtish mentality of seeing the disadvantages and inherently playing by the rules, I think you can now add our fear of offending anyone on the internet by stating an observation or opinion. We all seem to preface any comments with a disclaimer so nobody takes it the wrong way!
I see where you are coming from with the retirement issue and ongoing funds but the situation Esprit is in I just cannot understand; not why shes done it but why there is no progression to Green Card even if it was after a number of years just prove your committment and the ongoing investment.
So much for the "Special Relationship." I think it is very telling when she says most ordinary Americans are "totally aghast."
andrew
[/quote]
Andrew,
I couldn’t agree more about Esprit’s situation; it really is nonsensical. I have British relatives who have lived in the USA for many years. They entered when to get a green card was a mere formality; even though they had no special skills. All that was needed was for their employer to sponsor them. Getting US citizenship was not difficult either.
When I explain to my US friends the current immigration difficulties they are also aghast – particularly when it appears so easy for some groups. There is a certain irony that the USA have become the most prosperous nation on earth on the back on the most liberal immigration policy in history.
Thank goodness I have no desire to live permanently in the USA.
I also take your point about prefacing comments. In my defence, in this case, it was to pre-empt arguments on the Visa Waiver scheme.
However back to the original subject of “having a child(born) in the USA”. Whether on a Visa or Visa Waiver, it strikes me that it is a great way of getting your child dual citizenship.
To have a baby at child bearing age might achieve the objective of enabling someone to retire in the USA – albeit 21+ years later!!!
Robert
flyrr100
24-01-2005, 00:54
Good luck finding an airline that'll take you across the pond in your 9th month!
Robert5988
24-01-2005, 01:40
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Good luck finding an airline that'll take you across the pond in your 9th month![/quote]
I did say "Whether on a Visa or Visa Waiver". You can easily get a 6 month visitor's Visa, and the Visa Waiver lasts 3 months.
It wouldn't be difficult if you wanted to have the baby in the USA.
chrizzy100
24-01-2005, 01:56
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by flyrr100
Good luck finding an airline that'll take you across the pond in your 9th month!
[/quote]
I thought they were unhappy to let you fly after your 6th month.....
If you are expecting maybe your visa will only be stamped for a few weeks....I'm sure they know people may try to get a US passport for their child that way.....its no help anyway......people here with H1B visas have been sent home.....American born kids too.....you'll have to wait until they are old enough to come back...which could be 15 or 20 years........
Robert5988
24-01-2005, 02:55
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:I thought they were unhappy to let you fly after your 6th month.....
[/quote]
Chrizzy,
You just might not tell them that you were pregnant!!! and if you were a few months they might not ask!!
"Are you pregnant Madam?" - "No I am a little overweight!!"
If you read the earlier posts the idea was not to stay in America but to get the child dual nationality!
Robert
chrizzy100
24-01-2005, 03:14
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Robert5988
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:I thought they were unhappy to let you fly after your 6th month.....
[/quote]
Chrizzy,
You just might not tell them that you were pregnant!!! and if you were a few months they might not ask!!
"Are you pregnant Madam?" - "No I am a little overweight!!"
If you read the earlier posts the idea was not to stay in America but to get the child dual nationality!
Robert
[/quote]
I'm sure you can't travel in the last few weeks....and if you don't tell your travel Ins company you are expecting...then you will give birth in the streets....you could say you don't know.....but they will ask for your doctors records from England.....Ins companies don't like paying out......I don't think its worth putting the life of a child in danger just to get it duel nationality......
Is there no-one or no group E2 holders could lobby to, to try and make people see sense? Surely any political group that brings in that law will be voted for for eternity by E2 visa holders!! I'd even vote for Bush if he changed the law to allow E2 to lead to green card one day! Now Bush is in for another 4 years and won't have to worry about fighting anymore election battles would he be not more open to new ideas or just common sense from people like E2 holders?
steph_goodrum
24-01-2005, 18:36
"Is there no-one or no group E2 holders could lobby to, to try and make people see sense? Surely any political group that brings in that law will be voted for for eternity by E2 visa holders!! I'd even vote for Bush if he changed the law to allow E2 to lead to green card one day! Now Bush is in for another 4 years and won't have to worry about fighting anymore election battles would he be not more open to new ideas or just common sense from people like E2 holders"
Since E2 holders have no right to vote Ajay, Bush nor any other politician is likely to want to waste their time lobbying on their behalf. they'd much rather use it for groups that might actually keep them in power eg the Mexican illegals who are very grateful at being able to get the right to amnesty and live there legally.
Attempts are being made via other forums to lobby Dave Walden. but Steph is right, we have no pulling power and while so many Brits are rushing here on E2 as it is, why should anyone in authority really care. It is short sighted though, the fact is that if you suddenly took away all the Brits running businesses in Florida, the tourist industry here would fall flat on its face and quick.
E. Cosgrove
25-01-2005, 00:22
What i should have said is the Midwives will do the straightforward stuff on the NHS, the O&G consultant will do the "fiddly" jobs, But in the US the O&G will do the easy stuff and charge a bomb!!!![msnwink]<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by blott
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by E. Cosgrove
No midwives to do the work for free!! [/quote]Don't UK midwives get a salary then? [msnoo][msnwink]
[/quote]
E. Cosgrove
25-01-2005, 00:24
Thanks Arun, salary...can't complain, would just like to be paid for the hours I work, but then again wouldn't we all[msnwink]<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Nostromo
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by blott
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by E. Cosgrove
No midwives to do the work for free!! [/quote]Don't UK midwives get a salary then? [msnoo][msnwink]
[/quote]
Not nearly enough considering the degree of responsibility and workload. Am I right, Liz?
[/quote]
I have just been catching up on all the recent comments, and I have to agree with Julie, that all our American friends are apalled at our situation, find it hard to believe, and even say things like " are you sure you've got it right ? You own a business and contibute to the economy. Surely you can at least get a green card ? " They are absolutely flabbergasted when you explain how things really are.
on the other subject, my grandson was born in Celebration Hospital 2 years ago, and the costs exceeded $10,000.00, and everything was very straightforward. We had medical insurance, but not maternity , as I had declined it as I knew I wouldn't need it ( duh ! )
E. Cosgrove
25-01-2005, 02:41
But I bet he's worth every penny Marie:D