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Joolz
31-12-2004, 04:18
whats the situation for people wanting to live 6 months of the year in Florida? Hubbys dream for early retirement... do we quite a way off from that [:I]
but would we need a visa?

blott
31-12-2004, 06:17
Yes, you'd need a B2 visitors' visa which lasts for 6 months in every 12 months. Check out the US Embassy website at http://www.usembassy.org.uk/cons_web/visa/niv/b2.htm

Katys Grandad
31-12-2004, 06:24
Would that be the case if the 6 months weren't in a block? Say 3x2 month stays?

blott
31-12-2004, 06:59
It's six months in total out of 12 months. Start date is the day you first arrive in the USA.

Katys Grandad
31-12-2004, 07:14
Thanks for that.

steph_goodrum
31-12-2004, 13:31
If it were in increments of less than 90 days you wouldn't need a visa provided you can meet all the other criteria of the visa waiver conditions, but may find you get questioned more each trip if it seemed you were making too frequent trips and spending more time in the US than at home. I know people who have applied for a visa and it has been refused as they have been told there is no reason they can't continue to travel under visa waiver for the lengths they were considering.
I think it is 90 you are allowed on the visa waiver , I'm sure Blott knows exactly.

Nostromo
31-12-2004, 13:34
Blott, with this B2 visa, will the person(s) still be UK citizens entitiled to NHS treatment while in the UK and some sort of Travel Health Insurance while across the pond? My wife and I are contemplating this too, but are worried about health cover in the US (although we are both in good health at the moment).

blott
31-12-2004, 13:47
If you're away for three months or more, you should hand your NHS card in before leaving and get a new one on your return.

Everyone should have travel insurance, particularly for the USA! It's quite difficult trying to find companies that will insure travellers for longer periods (most state 30 or a few 60 days). I do know of one company that will insure travellers on an annual policy with a maximum trip length of 180 days in any 12 months of cover.

Nostromo
31-12-2004, 14:02
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by blott
If you're away for three months or more, you should hand your NHS card in before leaving and get a new one on your return.

Everyone should have travel insurance, particularly for the USA! It's quite difficult trying to find companies that will insure travellers for longer periods (most state 30 or a few 60 days). I do know of one company that will insure travellers on an annual policy with a maximum trip length of 180 days in any 12 months of cover.
[/quote]

Thanks for that. Some of my own patients spend 6 months of the year in their villa in Spain or Portugal abd yet remain in our prctice 'books'. I guess that's cos of the collateral NHS cover provided for EU countries, something unavailable for the US.

I would be grateful if you can DM me the name of that Insurance Company that offers 180 days cover for the US. Most companies I know specify a max stay of 30 to 45 days, though I have heard of 90-day covers.

Ray&Sarah
31-12-2004, 14:14
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by blott
If you're away for three months or more, you should hand your NHS card in before leaving and get a new one on your return.

[/quote]

Thanks for that Blott, that is something we didn't know, had no idea you were supposed to do that.[msneek]

Nostromo
31-12-2004, 15:30
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Ray&Sarah
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by blott
If you're away for three months or more, you should hand your NHS card in before leaving and get a new one on your return.

[/quote]

Thanks for that Blott, that is something we didn't know, had no idea you were supposed to do that.[msneek]
[/quote]

This can cut both ways. When a person returns to the UK after over 3 months outside the country he/she has to re-register and so the practice gets a Registration Fee for the 'new' patient. But the person is under no obligation to return to the same practice, which means that they could lose out on his/her capitation. That is probably why some practices simply 'don't want to know' if their patients keep getting in and out of the country, although stricly speaking, it is their responsibilty to be aware of the patients' long term whereabouts.

steph_goodrum
31-12-2004, 16:50
We've had the same situation with our daughter at uni in this country. Despite the fact she is only an hour away from home the Uni (in London) insisted on proof of registration at a local surgery in case of emergency, so she has had to register there and hope that when she comes back full time to the area that the practise where she has been registered from birth will accept her back again.

Robert5988
31-12-2004, 17:21
There was some heated discussion in this forum some months ago
on the subject of staying for lengthy periods in Florida.

Unless you wish to spend an unbroken period in excess of 3 months(and up to 6 months) I cannot see why one would go to all the trouble of obtaining a visa when the Visa Waiver Scheme is available – assuming you meet the conditions for the VWS.

To obtain medical insurance for periods in excess of 3 months – especially if retired – would be hugely expensive. It would probably be cheaper to get annual insurance and fly home – or out of the USA – for a short period and then return.

blott
31-12-2004, 19:20
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Robert5988
To obtain medical insurance for periods in excess of 3 months – especially if retired – would be hugely expensive. It would probably be cheaper to get annual insurance and fly home – or out of the USA – for a short period and then return. [/quote]Those are the NHS regulations I quoted earlier in the thread - if you're leaving for three months or more you should hand your medical card back and obtain another one when you return home permanently.

The annual insurance I was talking about is around GBPounds 80 - 150, depending on your age (the older you are, the higher the excess for medical treatment you claim for, the longer you stay abroad), and is valid for any six months out of the UK in any twelve.

Nostromo
31-12-2004, 19:22
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Robert5988

To obtain medical insurance for periods in excess of 3 months – especially if retired – would be hugely expensive. It would probably be cheaper to get annual insurance and fly home – or out of the USA – for a short period and then return. [/quote]

It is a thought, but is there a minimum interval requirement between two 3 month stays in the USA? For example, can one spend 3 months in Orlando, return to the UK for a week and then go back to Orlando claiming a 'new' visit? Even if he/she suceeds once or twice, will the authorities not cotton on soon?

Robert5988
31-12-2004, 20:14
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:It is a thought, but is there a minimum interval requirement between two 3 month stays in the USA? For example, can one spend 3 months in Orlando, return to the UK for a week and then go back to Orlando claiming a 'new' visit? Even if he/she suceeds once or twice, will the authorities not cotton on soon?[/quote]

This was covered in depth in the threads I referred to earlier.

You can drive across into Canada(or go to the Bahamas) and return the same day to start another period of 3 months on a Visa Waiver. There is no minimum period to be out of the USA - it states this in the USA embassy website. Also no limit to the number of times in any year that you can enter under the VWS

It depends on your definition of “cotton on”. With machine readable passports they can see exactly the pattern of your entries to the USA. However provided you fully meet the conditions of the VWS why would they want to exclude you? Obviously in the case of long visits a most important condition would be that you have a permanent address in UK and you may need to convince the immigration officer that it was your intent to return to UK at some time.

It should not be forgotten that the USA actively encourages tourists; they spend $$$, and pay tax. Provided you are not going to engage in crime, seek employment, establish a legally permanent residence or have the potential to be a burden on Uncle Sam – what is the problem? You are supporting their economy!

Katys Grandad
31-12-2004, 20:35
I wish I could remember how it is done but I'm sure there is a perfectly legitimate method of extending the annual stay beyond 6 months. I think it was to around 8 months. I actually saw it on a TV programme about purchasing a home in the US.

Has anybody any idea what it was?

Nostromo
31-12-2004, 21:12
OK. A lot of you are Brits owning a Villa or two in Orlando. Let us suppose that Jane Bloggs owns 6 villas in the Orlando & Kissimmee area. She is more or less guaranteed a regular 'income' from renting them throughout the year, right? According to what you're saying Robert, can she use the VWS to keep popping in and out of the US indefinitely, living in one of her own small villas while getting regular rent from the remaining ones? She eill even be able to afford visits to the UK to keep up her status here!

florida4sun
31-12-2004, 21:14
Sorry but this is not allowed. You are suposed to return to your country of origin or atleats a country not connect by a border to the USA. We were using the Bahamas to renew our waiver while the isa application was going through. We got away with it twice and on the 3rd attempt they refused and explained that they are no longer allowing this. We managed to talk our way back in but it was very difficult. I know of others who have been stopped since then to.
What has to be understand here is that you have to satisfy whichever idiot is looking at your passport. These are low paid workers with more power the president of the country and they like to use it! They often get the rules completley wrong but that is tough on you. Of course you can spend months appealing.
With a visa waiver you have to prove (if requested) that your are not seeking to work or live in the USA (another point pointed out to me, as that os exactly what we were doing). With repeated 'turn arounds' it is extremely difficult to satisfy them of this, even if you are retired.
M

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Robert5988
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:It is a thought, but is there a minimum interval requirement between two 3 month stays in the USA? For example, can one spend 3 months in Orlando, return to the UK for a week and then go back to Orlando claiming a 'new' visit? Even if he/she suceeds once or twice, will the authorities not cotton on soon?[/quote]

This was covered in depth in the threads I referred to earlier.

You can drive across into Canada(or go to the Bahamas) and return the same day to start another period of 3 months on a Visa Waiver. There is no minimum period to be out of the USA - it states this in the USA embassy website. Also no limit to the number of times in any year that you can enter under the VWS

It depends on your definition of “cotton on”. With machine readable passports they can see exactly the pattern of your entries to the USA. However provided you fully meet the conditions of the VWS why would they want to exclude you? Obviously in the case of long visits a most important condition would be that you have a permanent address in UK and you may need to convince the immigration officer that it was your intent to return to UK at some time.

It should not be forgotten that the USA actively encourages tourists; they spend $$$, and pay tax. Provided you are not going to engage in crime, seek employment, establish a legally permanent residence or have the potential to be a burden on Uncle Sam – what is the problem? You are supporting their economy!

[/quote]

Nostromo
31-12-2004, 21:18
But is gettind a steady and substantial rent from one's villas considered as 'work' or 'business'?

florida4sun
31-12-2004, 21:19
Technically yes, in reality no they would not allow this as she would be spending the majority of her time the USA and making an income from a US based business. She would be told to apply for another type of visa.
There are lots of ways to try and bend the system, they work fine until they catch on and then your risk major problems in the future.



<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Nostromo
OK. A lot of you are Brits owning a Villa or two in Orlando. Let us suppose that Jane Bloggs owns 6 villas in the Orlando & Kissimmee area. She is more or less guaranteed a regular 'income' from renting them throughout the year, right? According to what you're saying Robert, can she use the VWS to keep popping in and out of the US indefinitely, living in one of her own small villas while getting regular rent from the remaining ones? She eill even be able to afford visits to the UK to keep up her status here!
[/quote]

Joolz
31-12-2004, 21:31
WOW!!
I posted a question one minute and look back the next and there are lots of postings- thanks guys for all your info- Ill read thro it carefully !!
Didnt realise it was so complicated... I dont suppose the laws about this sort of thing are so tight when coming into UK are they???/

flyrr100
04-01-2005, 21:59
Joolz... also remember that everything you buy will have to be either cash or an overseas credit card. You have no credit history here.
Also, all your gas, electric, phone accounts will probably need a cash down payment before they'll hook you up.

Good luck.

Robert5988
05-01-2005, 03:07
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote: Sorry but this is not allowed. You are suposed to return to your country of origin or atleats a country not connect by a border to the USA. We were using the Bahamas to renew our waiver while the isa application was going through. We got away with it twice and on the 3rd attempt they refused and explained that they are no longer allowing this. We managed to talk our way back in but it was very difficult. I know of others who have been stopped since then to.
What has to be understand here is that you have to satisfy whichever idiot is looking at your passport. These are low paid workers with more power the president of the country and they like to use it! They often get the rules completley wrong but that is tough on you. Of course you can spend months appealing.
With a visa waiver you have to prove (if requested) that your are not seeking to work or live in the USA (another point pointed out to me, as that os exactly what we were doing). With repeated 'turn arounds' it is extremely difficult to satisfy them of this, even if you are retired.
M


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Robert5988

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is a thought, but is there a minimum interval requirement between two 3 month stays in the USA? For example, can one spend 3 months in Orlando, return to the UK for a week and then go back to Orlando claiming a 'new' visit? Even if he/she suceeds once or twice, will the authorities not cotton on soon?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



This was covered in depth in the threads I referred to earlier.

You can drive across into Canada(or go to the Bahamas) and return the same day to start another period of 3 months on a Visa Waiver. There is no minimum period to be out of the USA - it states this in the USA embassy website. Also no limit to the number of times in any year that you can enter under the VWS

It depends on your definition of “cotton on”. With machine readable passports they can see exactly the pattern of your entries to the USA. However provided you fully meet the conditions of the VWS why would they want to exclude you? Obviously in the case of long visits a most important condition would be that you have a permanent address in UK and you may need to convince the immigration officer that it was your intent to return to UK at some time.

It should not be forgotten that the USA actively encourages tourists; they spend $$$, and pay tax. Provided you are not going to engage in crime, seek employment, establish a legally permanent residence or have the potential to be a burden on Uncle Sam – what is the problem? You are supporting their economy!

[/quote]
Florida4sun,

In your signature block you use the title “Resident Ticket Guru”. I am not sure if that gives you some official status on this site; but it certainly gives the impression that you hold such a position.

It is a pity therefore that you state with such authority that I am wrong. So I suggest you read what I said before attempting to correct me.

The rules are clearly written and below is an extract – indeed a quote from the regulations - from Blott from the earlier thread on this subject

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:
Is there a limit to the number of times I may travel to the United States visa free in any given period of time?

There is no limit to the number of times you may travel visa free under the Visa Waiver Program in any given period. There is also no minimum period of time you are required to remain outside the U.S. before reapplying for admission. However, if you are a frequent traveler to the United States you should be sure to carry with you for presentation to U.S. immigration evide

Robert5988
05-01-2005, 04:48
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:OK. A lot of you are Brits owning a Villa or two in Orlando. Let us suppose that Jane Bloggs owns 6 villas in the Orlando & Kissimmee area. She is more or less guaranteed a regular 'income' from renting them throughout the year, right? According to what you're saying Robert, can she use the VWS to keep popping in and out of the US indefinitely, living in one of her own small villas while getting regular rent from the remaining ones? She eill even be able to afford visits to the UK to keep up her status here![/quote]

Nostromo,
The Visa Waiver Scheme does not allow a visitor to take up employment.

Whether the case you use as an example would be classed as ‘employment’ is not something I could answer. However I suspect that at some point an Immigration Officer would conclude that it was employment and deny entry under the VWS.

If he does deny entry that is it! – no appeal is allowed even if he is wrong.

I have been at pains to point out in this, and previous threads, that you must fully comply with the conditions of the VWS and any suspicion that you are using the scheme to flout entry regulations will land you in trouble.

As far as I can see there is no ambiguity in the US immigration regulations and they are available for all to read on their website. With regard to the VWS there is no restriction on number of times you can enter(a limit of 3 months for any visit). No restriction on how long you must leave the USA for between visits; and you can cross any border and return – there is even a section that specifically allows you to travel to Canada or the Caribbean islands, re-enter USA and renew your Visa Waiver for another 90 days.

Robert

florida4sun
05-01-2005, 12:33
Firstly - I can show you a copy of the refusal stamped in my passport for doing such. I am going on experience of myself and others and offering advice based on that. They do not like these turnarounds when people simply pop in and out of the country. They made us fly back to the UK, instead of giving us a visa waiver via the Bahamas. We lived as a family in Florida for 5 years, and dealt with all levels of immigration, so yes I think this gives me a position to give advice.

From your IM to me and this post, you have obvioulsy taken my post personally. This is a forum for advice and different opinions, sorry if you do not agreee with my advice which is based of fact, it's your right to disagree and I would certianly not consider sending you an IM telling you not to disagree. The last thing we need is people being put of posting factual advice for fear of upsetting someone who has posted.

With immigration you simply cannot follow the written regulations, you have to go with what people are experiencing at the present time. Look at the E2 fiasco over Management companies, which now appears to have taken complete reversal.

For the record I am not a moderator for this forum other than the tickets area which I look after.

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:
In your signature block you use the title “Resident Ticket Guru”. I am not sure if that gives you some official status on this site; but it certainly gives the impression that you hold such a position.

It is a pity therefore that you state with such authority that I am wrong. So I suggest you read what I said before attempting to correct me.

The rules are clearly written and below is an extract – indeed a quote from the regulations - from Blott from the earlier thread on this subject

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:
Is there a limit to the number of times I may travel to the United States visa free in any given period of time?

There is no limit to the number of times you may travel visa free under the Visa Waiver Program in any given period. There is also no minimum period of time you are required to remain outside the U.S. before reapplying for admission. However, if you are a frequent traveler to the United States you should be sure to carry with you for presentation to U.S. immigration evidence of your residence abroad to which you intend returning at the end of your visit together with evidence of funds sufficient for your support while in the United States. If the officer of the USCIS is not convinced that you are a bona visitor for business or tourism, you can be denied entry.

[/quote]
Perhaps therefore you can point us to the regulation that supports your statement:

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:You are suposed to return to your country of origin or atleats a country not connect by a border to the USA.

[/quote]

I suspect you cannot!

Let us not confuse the issue with what happened to you as you were waiting for a visa application to be approved.

One further point. If you enter on a Visa Waiver you cannot appeal the decision of an immigration officer. Again it is in the regulations and you sign to that effect on the I-94W.

[/quote]

floridadreamvilla.co.uk
05-01-2005, 12:58
Let's keep this forum friendly Robert as the last thing we want is people not posting because they are afraid of getting shouted down because you do not agree with them.

It's all very well quoting rules at people but at the end of the day the immifgration officers are given a LOT of leeway to interpret things as they can and even though there is no limit to the number of times you can visit on a Visa Waiver I know plenty of people who have been pulled to one side after making several trips in a year and told they should get a B2 Visitors Visa.

Martin is talking from practical experience. Anyone can quote from a rulebook but at the end of the day it's the practical application of the rules that actually counts and that is where Martin's advice is invaluable [msnsmile]

I'm locking this thread now as it's gone as far in this direction as we would like to see on a friendly, family based forum.