Criminal Record

[hurricanesarah]

Friend of mine has booked out in December with his wife and children. However he has a criminal record from a few years ago. We had a discussion last night and I thought that you couldn't travel under a visa waiver and whatnot if you DID have a criminal record?? He says hes never declared it before now and just walks through immigration anyway declaring nothing. I said now he has to be finger printed and this could be a problem. Any advise?????

OKay to add a little more, apparently he did time for perverting the course of justice in a case about an assault. Dont know much details sorry. Hope this enouhg information.

[Jill]

If you have a criminal record then you cannot go through on visa waiver and you do need to apply for a visa. If he has been through in the past and not declared it that is up to him but if he gets caught then he might not like the consequences.

[chrissb]

Hi Sarah

the rules are very clear: if you have been arrested even if the arrest did not lead to a conviction or if you have a criminal record then you are NOT eligible to use the visa waiver program and MUST apply for and be granted a visa. One of the major issues is that he has now left it very late to apply as he is going in December, so may not be able to get one in time. Up to now he has been able to get away with but to do so he has lied on the visa waiver form. Using the visa waiver is very convient but you have no right of appeal against the immigration officer's decision, and if he gets caught out then he will be deported on the next available flight. If you do a search on the forum for criminal records and convictions you will find that this is a topic that has come up several times. Your friend's decision is his to make but this is not a chance I would take.

[Iain Watt]

I read recently about someone that had previously over-stayed a visa waiver period by a few days. She was then refused entry on her next visit. This may be wrong but I'm sure she was then banned from returning to the USA for 10 years!!!

A harsh penalty just for a an over-sight.

Who knows what the penalty would be if they find out about an non-declared criminal record [?]

IMO I suspect it would be advisable to declare and get a visa.

[Jill]

Iain you are correct on the ban for 10 years I saw that as well. However they are now saying that for minor infringements such as a one off over stay for a couple of days they will be more lenient. I suspect this will depend on the guy on the desk and how jobsworthy he feels at the time.

[amy]

However perverting the course of Justice is not a minor infringement............I would be booking an appointment at the embbassy

[Nostromo]

One question on this situation. If Hurricane Sarah's friend now applies for a visa, coming clean and declaring the old Criminal Record, the US authorities will surely take note that he had entered the US before without declaring the record on dates AFTER the UK conviction took place. Will it then affect his getting a visa?

[Robert5988]

It is absolutely clear that he is not entitled to use the Visa Waiver Scheme!

In the past many have simply lied and got away with it and I suspect the current fingerprinting will not change the situation much as it still requires the Mark 1 eyeball to confirm fingerprint matches. However if the US authorities have serious reservations about him - the game is up!

There is another implication for all those who have lied and entered at any time in the past under the VWS. Sooner or later there will be the facility for automated routine comparison of the fingerprints obtained by US Immigration against, say, the UK CRO data bank. When, or if, that happens there will be big trouble for anyone who tries to re-enter.

Your friend faces a dilemma. If he now applies for a Visa it will almost certainly become apparant(Unless it was before the machine readable passports came into use) that he has previously breached the conditions of the VWS and entered the USA illegally. I suspect therefore his chances of getting a Visa will be slim.

The one glimmer of hope is the Rehabilitation of Offenders act. Whilst the Rehabilitation of Offenders act does not apply to the Visa Waiver Scheme under US law, it is still law in UK. It may be that this will affect the retention of information for ‘spent’ offences, and the release of any information by UK authorities.

Either way your friend is in a unenviable position.

[hurricanesarah]

Thank you for your advises. I spoke to his wife, one of my best friends today about your replies, and she says it was 8 years ago and he got off with a fine. He travelled to florida several times since then and has never declared anything so guess he's just been lucky so far?? But their intentions are to move to florida one day, not now but maybe a couple of years or so and i said really at this stage they should declare this? Do you have any other advise on this? I don't want to tell them to get the visa and then they get turned down when they could have just gone and chanced it or get them to chance it and then be sent home? they are awaiting your advises. Thanks ever so!

[Nostromo]

I think to 'chance it' under the current regulations would be a serious error of judgement. Reading others' experiences, not only would the chances of getting caught & declined entry be high, but it could also spoil your friends' future Florida plans. I think this is the time for him to come clean, declare the conviction, apply for a visa and hope for the best. If he is refused - and there is a chance of that happening due to his earlier infingements - there may at least be other avenues open to try later; the door may not be closed indefinitely. But to try to sneak in again (if you will forgive the expression) could be equivalent to shooting oneself in one's own foot.

[Robert5988]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:I think to 'chance it' under the current regulations would be a serious error of judgement. Reading others' experiences, not only would the chances of getting caught & declined entry be high, but it could also spoil your friends' future Florida plans. I think this is the time for him to come clean, declare the conviction, apply for a visa and hope for the best. If he is refused - and there is a chance of that happening due to his earlier infingements - there may at least be other avenues open to try later; the door may not be closed indefinitely. But to try to sneak in again (if you will forgive the expression) could be equivalent to shooting oneself in one's own foot.[/quote]

Nostromo,

Firstly, like you, I am not attempting to moralise but merely give a practical appreciation of the situation as I see it.

Whilst I understand the thrust of your argument I do not feel that his chances of getting caught are any higher now than before - especially as he has entered several times under the VWS since his conviction and that will show when his passport is scanned. I am not advocating that he should try to use the VWS again but a great many have 'got away with it' and will in the future.

If he does apply for a Visa I think he can forget his holiday as I would think time-scales alone would prevent him getting one in time for December. Also if he 'comes clean' I suspect the chances of someone getting a Visa after having lied(to put it bluntly) to US Immigration several times, as well as having a conviction that would come under the description of 'moral turpitude', are slim.

If he did decide to brazen it out and lie about his conviction when he eventually applies for a Visa there is a possibility they may not even check for convictions or that the CRO will have no data on him. Do not forget that a lot of information held by the Police has been destroyed in the confusion over the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act. –remember the Soham murderer Huntley. After all if he only got a fine 8 years ago it will not have been considered that serious.

Robert

[floridadreamvilla.co.uk]

I do not think anyone on here should be advising anyone else to break the law. The only advice for this person is to see about getting a VISA or cancel their trip. There are no other options.

[tezz7628]

http://www.usembassy.org.uk/cons_web/visa/niv/add_crime.htm

[Robert5988]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote: I do not think anyone on here should be advising anyone else to break the law. The only advice for this person is to see about getting a VISA or cancel their trip. There are no other options.[/quote]

John,
Agreed which is why I was careful to state:
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:I am not advocating that he should try to use the VWS again [/quote]

However the options are not to see "about getting a Visa [u]or</u> cancel the trip" but see about getting a Visa [u]and</u> cancel his trip.

Robert

[floridadreamvilla.co.uk]

I don't think so. You are pre-assuming it's impossible to get a Visa in time which only the US Embassy can tell us [msnwink]
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Robert5988


However the options are not to see "about getting a Visa [u]or</u> cancel the trip" but see about getting a Visa [u]and</u> cancel his trip.

Robert

[parrot 2]

My advise would be to book appointment with Belfast embassy as this is quicker than London but saying that my boyfriend had interview 3 weeks ago in London as he was in prison for 4 months 12 years ago for a fights when he was a silly 16 year old and he has just been granted his visa this Saturday. We are also flying at Christmas and was really worried wouldnt be back in time. So anything is possiblea and needless to say i am over the moon he is coming [msnsmile2]

[Nostromo]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by parrot 2
My boyfriend had interview 3 weeks ago in London as he was in prison for 4 months 12 years ago for a fights when he was a silly 16 year old and he has just been granted his visa this Saturday. We are also flying at Christmas and was really worried wouldnt be back in time. So anything is possiblea and needless to say i am over the moon he is coming [msnsmile2]
[/quote]

There you are. Here is a good example of a case when 'coming clean' has paid off positively. :):)

[tezz7628]

you can always get an appointment somebody has cancelled if you ring them up, can't you?

[Robert5988]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by parrot 2
My boyfriend had interview 3 weeks ago in London as he was in prison for 4 months 12 years ago for a fights when he was a silly 16 year old and he has just been granted his visa this Saturday. We are also flying at Christmas and was really worried wouldnt be back in time. So anything is possiblea and needless to say i am over the moon he is coming

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



There you are. Here is a good example of a case when 'coming clean' has paid off positively. [/quote]

Agreed. I wonder if he had lied to US Immigration a number of times when entering the USA illegally though.

On a question of timing for a December visit. Parrot's boyfriend only waited a few weeks after his interview. How long did he wait for his interview? Bearing in mind you have to obtain a certificate pertaining to your conviction before you even apply for a Visa.

Let me make it quite clear that if you have been arrested I believe the best course of action is always to obey the rules and apply for a Visa. US Immigration are, I suspect, really only interested banning criminals and terrorists(or sympathisers) rather than someone with a record that has no relevance to their purpose for visiting the USA.

I for one could never live with the uncertainty in that your lies might catch up with you - hardly conducive to a relaxing holiday.

[Nostromo]

Robert, I think I understand what you are trying to say. You are doing your best to help Hurricanesarah's friend; but the question is, what specifically are you suggesting he should do?

If that guy was your friend and he stood in front of you and asked JUST YOUR OPINION DIRECTLY (and not this open forum) what he should do now (his circumstances being exactly the same as they are), what are you going to tell him?

I am not trying to be judgemental here. Any of us could face a similar dilemma.

[parrot 2]

My boyfriend got his court letter within 3 days then phoned the embassy and was seen with in 3 weeks, so 6 weeks all in all. I know this is tight for xmas but now that they are doing finger prints i really think best to come clean as could be deported.
My brother has an interview in belfast also for our christmas visit as he over stayed his welcome 12 years ago and got refused entry. He has been in and out of the country for the last 12 years with no probs and saying no to being refused entry but 1 month ago they pulled him and said must get visa or you will be deported next time.
We phoned belfast and got interview within 3 weeks , so hopefully be nice and quick and in time for xmas.

so my advice to anyone traveling with either criminal backround or refused or deported from USA is to COME CLEAN and go down the proper channels x

[hurricanesarah]

Thanks ever so for everyone who replied to this question. I found it worrying not to mention my friend! He's going to apply for a visa and now I'm worried that he probably won't get it in time, but then again I'm also worried he might have just chanced it and then got caught. What a decision!

[Nostromo]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by hurricanesarah
Thanks ever so for everyone who replied to this question. I found it worrying not to mention my friend! He's going to apply for a visa and now I'm worried that he probably won't get it in time, but then again I'm also worried he might have just chanced it and then got caught. What a decision!
[/quote]

On balance, I think your friend made the correct decision. Wish him all the best from me.:)

[Katys Grandad]

I'm sure everyone on this thread hopes his honesty pays off for him. At the end of the day, the US (just like any other country) should be entitled to decide who it will or will not allow in.

At times their approach seems harsh and, where 'famous' people are involved, a little hypocritical.

Rant over!!!

[wiljohn]

Hi, having read the previous post's i've decided to apply for a visa,due to a breach of the peace some 30 years ago.
I have been to the US many times since,even had an E2 back in the 80's,it must have been declared back then and therefore could still be on the embassy's files,I did consider wether to try the moral turpitude argument,which could go against me,anyway I filled in the form on line so its probably on their records now, so I will proceed.
What isn't very clear is the next step in the application,do I have to call and make an appointment,can I apply by post?
The website as far as I can see doesn't make it very clear,any help would be appreciated.
John.

[E. Cosgrove]

You call to make an appointment John, the number ison the website

[wiljohn]

Thanks for that liz, I have spoken to the embassy this morning and got an appointment for Dec 1st,I contacted the force that dealt with the offence all those years ago,they will send me forms that go to the NIS,I've been told that there won't be records going back that far,but this needs confirming for a visa, maybe I could have gone to the US on a waiver,but is it worth the risk? John.
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by E. Cosgrove
You call to make an appointment John, the number ison the website
[/quote]

[Nostromo]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by wiljohn
Thanks for that liz, I have spoken to the embassy this morning and got an appointment for Dec 1st,I contacted the force that dealt with the offence all those years ago,they will send me forms that go to the NIS,I've been told that there won't be records going back that far,but this needs confirming for a visa, maybe I could have gone to the US on a waiver,but is it worth the risk? John.
[/quote]

Well done John. You made the right decision. Like you say, it is not worth the risk taking a chance where the police have been invoved, even though it seems silly from a practical point of view to go back to some relatively minor offence almost 30 years ago. I am sure a lot of us have done some mistake years ago which we regret, and you were just unlucky at the time that it went on record. All the best with the Visa application.

[parrot 2]

yes all the best im sure you will be fine.
I heard on the radio the other day that a guy got a record when he was 15 (25 years ago) for nicking some sweets in a shop, went to Orlando and ticked the NO box to ever having a record and got sent home and Deported, you wouldnt want that to happen to you would you [msncry]

Once again good luck [msnsmile2]

[blott]

I don't think any of us would want that to happen to anyone so, in my opinion, it's always best to tell the truth and comply with whatever regulations are in force. I can't think of anything worse than arriving in Florida for a dream holiday and then being sent back again.

So well done John, good luck with your interview and have a great time in Florida!

[Sputnick]

I refer to my thread some weeks ago as my friends had to book an appointment with the US Embasy in London, their expected time for an interview was between 13 & sixteen weeks.
Then was refused entry to USA due to a charge of receiving stolen goods.Ans was told they could re-apply after 5 years but usually it meant a lifetime ban.
I would have thought it unlikely that you could get an appointment in time for your trip.
Sorry for the bad news but it could be very bad if you tried to get in and they found out but if you do and have no problems it would be good to hear of you trip.
I also have friend who had criminal records that have been to FL and got in but their convictions were a long while ago so I don`t know if that is the reason.

[icemaiden]

Hi all [msnsmile2]
I am going to Florida on 4th June 2005 and by the looks of things need to apply for a visa due to being in the wrong place at the wrong time when i was 13yrs old, the group of friends i was with seemed to think it was funny to shoplift from woolworths, i didn't take anything myself but was guilty by association. woolworths policy @ the time was too always prosicute shoplifters so the police where duly called. my mum said it would come back to haunt me!! after 26 yrs i had forgotten about it been police checked in the past as i work for the health service and nothing has ever been said to me regarding this, but reading the thread i don't really want to take the chance so a visa application it looks like there will have to be. can someone please,please tell me where to start as i havent got a clue, i have been on to the usa embassy website and have come away even more confused than before i went on if someone can offer their expertees i would be truly grateful. thanx Stacy.

[parrot 2]

I feel like im an expert at this now as my boyfriend has just had interviews and got visa now im preparing all the forms for my brother next week [msnsad].

Anyway you start by calling your nearest Embassy ie London, Belfast etc.,... They will arrange an interview for you in about 3-4 weeks time and then you have to fill out forms on line and take with you. If you had any police records you will need to take these with you.
They will then send you a letter in the post with payment slip and where to get photo etc....

Then all there is to do is attend interview and wait for visa to come through [msnsmile] hope this has helped a little, please feel free to ask anymore questions and i will try and help you if i can [msnsmile2]

[wiljohn]

Stacy, I know what you mean about the Embasssy website,it doesn't make anything simple,anyway here's what I did.
Filled out the visa application form on line then printed it off,the following day I rang the embassy premium rate phone line (£1.30 per min)to make an appointment,got one for Dec 1st,I then rang the police force that dealt with my misdemeanour,they in turn put me in touch with data protection,they will send you a form which goes to the National infromation service,which should send you back either a record showing any past offence, or confirming nothing on file about you,confirmation of any outcome will have to be taken to the US embassy on your appointment date.
The embassy will send you all the details you will need to follow in the post when they confirm your appointment,bear in mind it can take a month for the NIS to reply,and this reply letter will be needed at appointment.
Your mother was right about it coming back one day,this involves a lot of effort and expense that we could all do without,but that's the way it is, we'll have to grin and bear it.hope this has been of assistance,best of luck.
John.

[Stephen and Pam]

Reading the copy of the visa waiver form it says that you had to of served at least 5 years to be non eligable to use the waiver system so if your freind just had a fine he did not serve time and therfor as form is written is eligeble
also the CRO is a goverment body of the UK and no other countries are allowed access to it

[Robert5988]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Reading the copy of the visa waiver form it says that you had to of served at least 5 years to be non eligable to use the waiver system so if your freind just had a fine he did not serve time and therfor as form is written is eligeble
also the CRO is a goverment body of the UK and no other countries are allowed access to it[/quote]

I am afraid that is wrong!!

If you have ever been arrested you are ineligible - even if found not guilty or no charge brought.

Do a search - there are lots on this subject.

[Stephen and Pam]

Even so the CRO is part of the British Criminal system and access is not allowed by any parties other than British law enforcement

[Stephen and Pam]

Also if the form is taken to the Nth degree everyone is cautioned even for a minor motoring offence and are therefor aressted even if for speeding and also under the reabilitation of offenders act all offences where a jail term has not been served are adjudged as spent after a period of time and when questions are asked for say a job reference the person has the right to say he has none and if the company ask for a search the cro are obliged to send a non none reply if spent

[floridadreamvilla.co.uk]

Maybe, but no-one is suggesting this. The thread is about the requirements of the USA Visa Waiver program and the fact remains that if you have ever been arrested and lie on the Visa Waiver form by saying otherwise then you are liable to deportation from the USA and a 10 year ban from future trips.

The fact that someone has been arrested means they cannot use the Visa Waiver program and will need to get a Visa to visit the USA.

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Stephen and Pam
Also if the form is taken to the Nth degree everyone is cautioned even for a minor motoring offence and are therefor aressted even if for speeding and also under the reabilitation of offenders act all offences where a jail term has not been served are adjudged as spent after a period of time and when questions are asked for say a job reference the person has the right to say he has none and if the company ask for a search the cro are obliged to send a non none reply if spent
[/quote]

[Robert5988]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Also if the form is taken to the Nth degree everyone is cautioned even for a minor motoring offence and are therefor aressted even if for speeding and also under the reabilitation of offenders act all offences where a jail term has not been served are adjudged as spent after a period of time and when questions are asked for say a job reference the person has the right to say he has none and if the company ask for a search the cro are obliged to send a non none reply if spent[/quote]

It would appear that you have not carried out a search about this subject on this site - where it is covered comprehensively - or read the US Embassy website.

The reason for this reply is in case someone believes your misleading information.

You are not normally [u]arrested</u> for 'minor motoring offences'. The operative word is [u]arrested</u> not convicted! The regulations specifically exempt minor traffic offences.

The UK Rehabilitation of Offenders act does not apply under USA law with regard to the Visa Waiver Scheme - and, not unreasonably, you are entering the USA under USA law.

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Reading the copy of the visa waiver form it says that you had to of served at least 5 years to be non eligable to use the waiver system [/quote]

By the way, re the above quote, on which Visa Waiver Form did you read that?

[Nostromo]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Robert5988


You are not normally [u]arrested</u> for 'minor motoring offences'. The operative word is [u]arrested</u> not convicted! The regulations specifically exempt minor traffic offences.

The UK Rehabilitation of Offenders act does not apply under USA law with regard to the Visa Waiver Scheme - and, not unreasonably, you are entering the USA under USA law.



That's right. I have received two UK speeding tickets via Speed Cameras and both were sorted by the police letter - fine & licence points system. There was no arrest or even a meeting with any police officer involved. Nevetheless, I asked about it at the US Embassy in London and was told that as long as there was no formal arrest involved, I was not obliged to declare it and was perfectly eligible for Visa Waiver. I have been to the USA twice since then, including Spring this year.

[ujpest doza]

The new entry requirements mean you are fingerprinted and iris checked.

You are not finger printed for minor motoring offences so there would be no finger print on record.

However, you are also NOT always fingerprinted if you are arrested for a minor offence. A police officer may take your details, phone you to confirm your id afterwards and allow you to plead guilty by letter and pay a small fine without ever entering a police station or court.

In an instance like that how would anyone know it had been you especially if it was a long time ago eg 12/20/30 years??

[blott]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by ujpest doza
The new entry requirements mean you are fingerprinted and iris checked.

You are not finger printed for minor motoring offences so there would be no finger print on record.

However, you are also NOT always fingerprinted if you are arrested for a minor offence. A police officer may take your details, phone you to confirm your id afterwards and allow you to plead guilty by letter and pay a small fine without ever entering a police station or court.

In an instance like that how would anyone know it had been you especially if it was a long time ago eg 12/20/30 years??[/quote]No-one knows the answer to that question (and the American Embassy aren't about to divulge the information to us either) but, as I've said many times before, why would anyone want to take the risk of being sent home again from the airport from their dream Florida holiday?

Those are the rules that the USA has laid down as entry requirements on visa waiver and that's all we need to know. If anyone doesn't meet those requirements, then they need to apply for a visa, it really is that simple!

[Nostromo]

Blott is right. If someone was arrested for a minor offence (eg 'distubance of peace') some 20 years ago, it is highly unlikely that he/she is going to be refused a visa to the USA if they come clean apply for it through the normal channels. On the other hand, if they hide the fact and try to use the Visa Waiver programme, there is a strong chance that they'll be apprehended even if they had got away with it before. This risks not only being sent back and thus ruining the present holiday, but might affect future Visa applications as well.

[hurricanesarah]

Ok little update, he applied to the embassy and has a date of 1 December for an appointment. The trip is 26 December and on the leaflet it says it will take around 5-7 days to process the Visa, although on the phone they said 14 weeks....what is correct? Will it come in time?

[blott]

I'm almost sure that the 14 weeks quoted is including the waiting time for the appointment and is a worst case scenario. The passport with the visa in usually takes a maximum of 14 days to arrive after the interview date. But, if in doubt, check it out with the US Embassy helpline.

[wiljohn]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by hurricanesarah
Ok little update, he applied to the embassy and has a date of 1 December for an appointment. The trip is 26 December and on the leaflet it says it will take around 5-7 days to process the Visa, although on the phone they said 14 weeks....what is correct? Will it come in time?
[/quote]

Im assuming your friend will have to get confirmation of previous arrest/conviction records, either from the court that dealt with his crime or from the National information service,the latter can take upto 40 days to arrive,I'm wondering if the neccessary records for myself, will arrive in time to take along to the embassy on Dec 1st.
John.

[hurricanesarah]

He needs to take records too? I thought it was just an appointment he needed to make and then turn up and plead his case! I wonder if he knows this, I think I'd better ring to let them know. What will he need, how long and will the visa still with all these circumstances and whatnot turn up in time?

[E. Cosgrove]

He needs an MOC Sarah, a memorandum of conviction which he gets from the clerk of the court where he was convicted.

[hurricanesarah]

Any ideas how long this would take to obtain and if he doesnt get it like right now, if it will hold things up? Dec 1 is the embassy appt.

[SG]

Oh dear this thread has started to concern me now. Over twenty years ago I was convicted of a driving offence of undue care and attention and had points added to my licence. Do you think this means I am ineligible for the VWP?

Nostromo, when you checked with the US Embassy about your speeding fines did you do this by telephone or in person?

[blott]

From the US Embassy website:

Note: Travelers with minor traffic offenses which did not result in an arrest and/or conviction for the offense may travel visa free, provided they are otherwise qualified.

http://www.usembassy.org.uk/cons_web/visa/niv/vwp.htm

[wiljohn]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by hurricanesarah
He needs to take records too? I thought it was just an appointment he needed to make and then turn up and plead his case! I wonder if he knows this, I think I'd better ring to let them know. What will he need, how long and will the visa still with all these circumstances and whatnot turn up in time?


[/quote]
Soon after making his appointment, he will receive instructions of what is required, including court record, visa fee payment slip (£60.00), photo (not regular passport photo), form DS-156 (available on line).
My court record has been dificult to obtain, as the court doesn't operate anymore, making an application to the NIS necessary.
I'm not sure if the forms have to be sent to the embassy before appointment, or you take them along on the day, I will make another phone call next week to confirm.
John.

[E. Cosgrove]

all males over the age of 14 yrs also have to complete a supplemental non immigrant visa application as well, regardless of wether they have a criminal record. This is available online.<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by wiljohn
<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by hurricanesarah
He needs to take records too? I thought it was just an appointment he needed to make and then turn up and plead his case! I wonder if he knows this, I think I'd better ring to let them know. What will he need, how long and will the visa still with all these circumstances and whatnot turn up in time?


[/quote]
Soon after making his appointment, he will receive instructions of what is required, including court record, visa fee payment slip (£60.00), photo (not regular passport photo), form DS-156 (available on line).
My court record has been dificult to obtain, as the court doesn't operate anymore, making an application to the NIS necessary.
I'm not sure if the forms have to be sent to the embassy before appointment, or you take them along on the day, I will make another phone call next week to confirm.
John.
[/quote]

[Laura V]

This is a subject that really put a damper on the first day of your holiday in October.
I was aware that new laws were coming in re entry into the USA but it wasn't until the day before our holiday that I was horrified to read this thread.
My 14 year old (at the time) had managed to get herself arrested and charged with shoplifting in December 2003. Of course, as any parent would say, she was innocent, but used as a decoy by some unsavoury 'friends'. Neverless she now has a criminal record which will be wiped from the records when she reaches 16 provided she doesn't commit any further offences.
It wasnt until I read this thread that it dawned on me that we should have applied for a Visa. The night before our holiday I couldn't sleep not because of the excitement but because I honestly thought that we would reach Florida and be out on the next flight home again.
It was the worst flight ever.
When we were given the green cards we didn't know what to do. In the end we signed to say that none of us had committed an offence or been charged in the hope that they were not interested in under 16 year olds.
When we reached immigration my husband and I were so nervous but tried not to show it. Though he was convinced that the new law would not apply to under 16 year olds. I was not so sure. During processing us the officer excused himself and went to speak to another officer which really frightened us. He came back and completed the process and let us on our way. Never in my life have I been so relieved.
My advice to anyone who is unsure of what to do is to make that appointment with the Embassy and get it sorted out well in advance as it's just not worth the worry.
We are still unsure whether this new law applies to minors and would appreciate any views on this. (Before we return to USA we will make sure that we have the correct papers).

[blott]

As far as I read the regulations and the visa waiver form, it applies to anyone who has been arrested and/or convicted but it would be a good idea to check it out with the American Embassy and get the definitive answer.

[chrizzy100]

I was also told by a friend in US immigration ...that just because you get through at the gate....don't think that they may not turn up at your door at any point in your stay .... people have been removed from the country by the police in the middle of their holiday......

[Nostromo]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by chrizzy100
people have been removed from the country by the police in the middle of their holiday......
[/quote]

Now that Bush has managed to stay in the White House, anything is possible. I won't be surprised to hear that they pulled someone off the Kraken to deport him or her! (without even allowing them to complete the ride! Really, how mean can you get?)

[jon2432]

All these replies have driven me bananas. I have a driving without due care & attention conviction from 1980. I was never arrested and went guilty in the post and was fined £30.00 and 3 points.Do I need to get a visa or not. I cant remember the exact date or even the court. Ive been back to the US twice since then, even working at the FBI academy without declaring it. Any suggestions.

Confused!

[Robert5988]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:All these replies have driven me bananas. I have a driving without due care & attention conviction from 1980. I was never arrested and went guilty in the post and was fined £30.00 and 3 points.Do I need to get a visa or not. I cant remember the exact date or even the court. Ive been back to the US twice since then, even working at the FBI academy without declaring it. Any suggestions.

Confused![/quote]

Jon,
Your conviction does not debar you from using the Visa Waiver scheme.

You do not need a Visa.

On the green I-94W form you get at the airport you enter ‘No’ in the part where it asks if you have ever been arrested.

The regulations for the Visa Waiver scheme specifically exempt minor traffic offences.

[florida4sun]

The likelyhood of that happening is pretty much zero. Imigration would not be interested in someone with an aged drink drive conviction that has slipped through imigration. I know of one instance where people where staying illegally and working, imigration turned up and gave them 180 days to leave the country! As far as I know they never left.
Now if you show up as some security risk, different matter.
The point of this thread is that if you have been arrested at all, consult with the embassey and have it sorted properly. If you dont and you get caught then you risk get a 3 or 10 year ban or atleast a hard time and then even harder from your spouse for not sorting in in the first place!




<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by chrizzy100
I was also told by a friend in US immigration ...that just because you get through at the gate....don't think that they may not turn up at your door at any point in your stay .... people have been removed from the country by the police in the middle of their holiday......
[/quote]

[Robert5988]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:The point of this thread is that if you have been arrested at all, consult with the embassey and have it sorted properly. If you dont and you get caught then you risk get a 3 or 10 year ban or atleast a hard time and then even harder from your spouse for not sorting in in the first place!
[/quote]

Martin,
As has been pointed out in a number of threads, many people are now in the classic ‘Catch 22’ situation.

They previously entered under the Visa Waiver Scheme and, to put it bluntly, lied on the I-94W about being arrested.

The chances of them being caught used to be very slim. Now with fingerprinting and flight manifests being sent ahead, there is an increased risk of being caught. Although nobody can quantify that increased risk the publicity in the media and forums like this cause concern.

Their dilemma is to risk lying again on the I-94W or risk being refused a Visa because they had previously lied to gain entry.

[Nostromo]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by Robert5988
Martin,
As has been pointed out in a number of threads, many people are now in the classic #8216;Catch 22&' situation.

They previously entered under the Visa Waiver Scheme and, to put it bluntly, lied on the I-94W about being arrested.

The chances of them being caught used to be very slim. Now with fingerprinting and flight manifests being sent ahead, there is an increased risk of being caught. Although nobody can quantify that increased risk the publicity in the media and forums like this cause concern.

Their dilemma is to risk lying again on the I-94W or risk being refused a Visa because they had previously lied to gain entry.

[/quote]

I think you have concisely and very accurately described the present Visa dilemma facing a lot of people. It is indeed a 'Catch-22' situation.
But under the circumstances, my feeling is to choose what appears to be the 'lesser' of the two evils and come clean. The worst that can happen is that the person might be refused a visa. But that is far less traumatic than being unceremoniously refused entry and turned back.

[dodgey memory]

They say confession is good for the soul so here is another sorry tail. My husband was arrested when he was 19 for breach of the peace for some silly youthful act, he was never convicted and was bound over to keep the peace. He even attended the police station to witness all his records being destroyed. Subsequently he has been police checked annually as i was a child minder and even holds a shot gun lisence. We are as sure as you can be that no criminal records are held on him but are in the process of checking with the NIS. BUT and this is a big BUT have twice been into America under the visa waiver scheme. The first time the word arrest threw us into turmoil as we thought it was the conviction that mattered, he ticked no in blind panic. The second time no excuses for!
After reading all the threads on this site we have decided that it is time to come clean and apply to the embassy for a visa. We hope that the offence will not count but are so worried that the two lies will! I only wish that we had read this before booking the flights and villa. Thankfully we are not going until Easter 2006 so have time to get it sorted. There is also a little devil saying if the NIS dont hold any records how will immigration ever find out? Neither of us can live with this worry however.
As someone has already said you can never escape your past.

[Nostromo]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:Originally posted by dodgey memory
They say confession is good for the soul so here is another sorry tail. My husband was arrested when he was 19 for breach of the peace for some silly youthful act, he was never convicted and was bound over to keep the peace. He even attended the police station to witness all his records being destroyed. Subsequently he has been police checked annually as i was a child minder and even holds a shot gun lisence. We are as sure as you can be that no criminal records are held on him but are in the process of checking with the NIS. BUT and this is a big BUT have twice been into America under the visa waiver scheme. The first time the word arrest threw us into turmoil as we thought it was the conviction that mattered, he ticked no in blind panic. The second time no excuses for!
After reading all the threads on this site we have decided that it is time to come clean and apply to the embassy for a visa. We hope that the offence will not count but are so worried that the two lies will! I only wish that we had read this before booking the flights and villa. Thankfully we are not going until Easter 2006 so have time to get it sorted. There is also a little devil saying if the NIS dont hold any records how will immigration ever find out? Neither of us can live with this worry however.
As someone has already said you can never escape your past.
[/quote]

As Robert says, this is a classic example of a "Catch-22" situation. I have to say that if I was in your husband's place, I would come clean, apply for a visa with an apolegetic covering letter explaining the oversight and keep my fingers crossed. But that's only my opinion. You two should decide what you believe is best for yourselves. All the best.

[dodgey memory]

You re absolutely right Nostromo he is going to get a visa the proper way the big worry is the system appears to be so arbitrary with no right of appeal.

[NickClark]

Having been in this exact situation I thought the following might encouage you.

I have a conviction that is 5 years old now.
I travelled to U.S several times under the visa waiver scheme and ticked the "NO" box each time to the arrested question. Because I genuinly thought that moral turpitude (I appologise if Ive spelt that wrong) meant a crime for which you had served a prison sentence which I did not.
Having read the various threads on this site and the fact that we have purchased a home in Florida I decided to apply for a Visa in October 2004. I used a U.S. Attorney in London who charged me a fee of £750. I declared the conviction on the application form and attended the embassy for my interview. I explained to the official why I had entered the States using the Visa waiver form even though I had been arrested and convicted of a crime. His exact words were "We appreciate your honesty and are able to grant your application for a Visa today". Talk about releived.

With us owning property in Florida it was definately worth paying the £750 legal bill. But now I have been there and done that I would advise anyone applying for a Visa to complete the forms themselves as it really is not rocket science. The majority of the people waiting seemed to have completed the forms themselves.

Of course every application will be assessed differently.

Hope this helps.

[wiljohn]

My situation was very similar to the last couple of postings,I had travelled many times to the US without declaring arrest (B of p),I honestly never thought the arrest question applied to me, obviously when reading it correctly it did, so I went for the visa, did it myself, down loading forms from the US embassy site,got asked a few questions about the arrest, it was 30yrs ago, no mention of previous visit to the US.
Not every case will be the same,but for me it was the right thing to do, and worked out fine in the end.[beer]
John.

[Robert5988]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:I travelled to U.S several times under the visa waiver scheme and ticked the "NO" box each time to the arrested question. Because I genuinly thought that moral turpitude (I appologise if Ive spelt that wrong) meant a crime for which you had served a prison sentence which I did not.
[/quote]

Well done Nick Clark!

This has been discussed before and I don’t think I have heard of anyone who knows exactly what ‘moral turpitude’ means.

The Oxford Dictionary defines ‘turpitude’ as “base, disgraceful; base or shameful character; vileness; depravity, wickedness,” So ‘moral turpitude’ is anyone’s guess.

To say that you didn’t think that particular definition applied to your offence is a sound line to take . The Embassy may, or may not, agree but at least it is a reasonable argument.

Or to put it another way what category of offence, that merits arrest, is not “an offense or crime involving moral turpitude”?

[poohbear]

forgive my ignorance but what constitutes "arrest".?
and if you have never had fingerprints taken then does that mean you have never been arrested?

[blott]

According to the dictionary, arrest means:

v. ar·rest·ed, ar·rest·ing, ar·rests
v. tr.

1. To stop; check: a brake that automatically arrests motion; arrested the growth of the tumor.
2. To seize and hold under the authority of law.
3. To capture and hold briefly (the attention, for example); engage.

v. intr.

To undergo cardiac arrest: The patient arrested en route to the hospital.
n.

1.
1. The act of detaining in legal custody: the arrest of a criminal suspect.
2. The state of being so detained: a criminal under arrest.
2. A device for stopping motion, especially of a moving part.
3. The act of stopping or the condition of being stopped.

So, being arrested means being taken (involuntarily I guess!) to the Police Station. You would be told, I assume, that you're under arrest and cautioned (the bit they say to make sure that you understand that you're being arrested).

[Robert5988]

<blockquote id="quote" class="ffs">quote:forgive my ignorance but what constitutes "arrest".?
and if you have never had fingerprints taken then does that mean you have never been arrested?[/quote]

My understanding is that you do not need to have fingerprints taken. You could, for example, be arrested for being drunk and disorderly, put in a cell overnight to sober up, and released next morning without charge.

You can even be arrested for your own protection.

[poohbear]

so being asked to go to the station to give a statement is that arrest? or for further questioning?

[blott]

If you were a witness to something or an innocent bystander then no.

If you were a suspect and weren't given any choice about going to the Police Station, then possibly but you would have been told at the time if you were under arrest.

[poohbear]

thanks blott you have put our minds at rest ....there was no arrest.[clap][clap][clap][clap][clap][beer][msnsmile2][msnsmile2]