that visa thing! - Orlando Forums

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Posted - 04 May 2008 : 19:13:14

Hi, this is my very first ever posting on a forum! How exciting!
My husband, two kiddies and I are planning a trip to florida next march. I've been researching all sorts of deals and whilst in First Choice was advised by an employee there not to disclose my husbands criminal record. The crimes were committed when he was a teen and not under my watchful eye! He's now 43! What are your views on this? What would happen if he didn't disclose his record and got found out? How can they find out? I really can't envisage him going off for an interview at the American embassy in London. We know other'ex crims'
who have travelled to the USA. Does everyone just lie and chance it?
Thanks for your help!

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Posted - 04 May 2008 : 19:51:19

Hello,
it is not advisable to lie trying to get into the states. They can and do see people criminals record (I know this for a fact). If you have a conviction they need to know about and you do not declare it, if found out they will without doubt turn you back to the UK. Best to find out if he needs to apply for a visa or not. Not all arrestable offenses need a visa.

quote:
Originally posted by jazmaleena
Hi, this is my very first ever posting on a forum! How exciting!
My husband, two kiddies and I are planning a trip to florida next march. I've been researching all sorts of deals and whilst in First Choice was advised by an employee there not to disclose my husbands criminal record. The crimes were committed when he was a teen and not under my watchful eye! He's now 43! What are your views on this? What would happen if he didn't disclose his record and got found out? How can they find out? I really can't envisage him going off for an interview at the American embassy in London. We know other'ex crims'
who have travelled to the USA. Does everyone just lie and chance it?
Thanks for your help!

Martin
Resident Ticket Guru
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http://www.uscarhire.co.uk/sat-nav.aspx
www.orlandovillas.com
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www.onlinefloridavillas.com
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www.floridahire.com

steph_goodrum

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Posted - 04 May 2008 : 22:50:29

I would be extremely concerned about booking a holiday with a company that is telling you to break the law (presumably to close the sale). They are certainly not acting in your best interests and if you were to follow their advice and not declare his record imagine how you would feel if you got to Florida with your children only to find that he was turned back and you either had to holiday alone or come back with your children.

As Martin said the Americans can and do find out lots of information. Although the Americans don't recognise the rehabilitation of offenders act when applying for a Visa they do acknowledge that mitakes made a long way in the past are just that and if his record has been clean for a long time then he has as much chance of being granted a Visa as anyone else.

Babblin Boo
http://www.orlandovillas.com/villas/92.aspx

roma

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Posted - 04 May 2008 : 23:34:03

Hi there, I have to totally agree with the comments from Martin & Babblin Boo.

I found myself in a similar situation, having been convicted of crimes some 26 years ago. A friend convince me to go through the proper channels and not chance it. Although it was a bit long winded it was worth it. You have to remember the USA are only doing what is in the interest of their nations safety, like we do in the UK, and are not looking to persecute you for pass crimes.

I found at my interview they are trying to establish roots to your country IE home, job & family.

With that said, I found the process quite simple although quite drawn out. Just make sure you read & understand what is required before you attend the interview, as getting this wrong can lead to delays.

On a different level, you will need to decide, if you do try and "chance it", and you are found out, make no bones about it you will be refused entry to the USA. Only you can decide the impact and embarrassment this will have on you and your family.

My advice apply for a visa and enjoy many years of travel to the USA. What has past has past.

All the best

DM me if you require any details on apply for a visa.

excuse any typos

Roma

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Posted - 05 May 2008 : 08:27:14

As Martin said above, not all offences prevent you from entering under a vias waiver; so it depends on your husband's criminal record.

Look at the question on the I94-W Visa Waiver form(copy on this website) and decide if he can truthfully answer 'NO'.

If he cannot answer NO, then apply for a Visa.

This thread may be of interest.

http://www.orlando-guide.info/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=42133&whichpage=2

Edited by - Robert5988 on 05 May 2008 08:35:48

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Posted - 10 May 2008 : 15:21:59

Thanks for all your comments and advice. A friend of a friend works in a travel agents and whilst explaining thins to her I mentioned that my husband and I had been to florida before in 1995 and had innocently filled in the visa waiver form on the plane and answered no to everything. we had no problems getting in. Its only since researching this holiday that this matter has been hi- lighted. So what now? We got in with no problems in 1995 so I assume it will be ok now.

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Posted - 10 May 2008 : 15:37:08

It is a question nobody can answer, it may be alright or not!!

quote:
Originally posted by jazmaleena
Thanks for all your comments and advice. A friend of a friend works in a travel agents and whilst explaining thins to her I mentioned that my husband and I had been to florida before in 1995 and had innocently filled in the visa waiver form on the plane and answered no to everything. we had no problems getting in. Its only since researching this holiday that this matter has been hi- lighted. So what now? We got in with no problems in 1995 so I assume it will be ok now.

steph_goodrum

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Posted - 10 May 2008 : 16:06:40

quote:
Originally posted by jazmaleena
Thanks for all your comments and advice. A friend of a friend works in a travel agents and whilst explaining thins to her I mentioned that my husband and I had been to florida before in 1995 and had innocently filled in the visa waiver form on the plane and answered no to everything. we had no problems getting in. Its only since researching this holiday that this matter has been hi- lighted. So what now? We got in with no problems in 1995 so I assume it will be ok now.

It may well be ok but don't forget when 9/11 happened in 2001 a lot of security measures were put in place that weren't available before.
At the end of the day it's your decision how best to play it, we can only suggest based on experience what may happen as at the end of the day we aren't in a position to give definitve answers only the Us immigration officials either at the embassy or on entry will determine if they should allow entry.

Babblin Boo
http://www.orlandovillas.com/villas/92.aspx

Kazzie

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Posted - 10 May 2008 : 19:47:06

I agree that security has tightened up a lot since your last visit. The choice is yours but you would do well to think about whether you would be happy if he is refused entry and sent right back home on the next plane.

Going back to your first post about this subject, the person from First Choice was totally out of order telling you not to disclose your husbands criminal record, obviously getting hold of your money was far more important! If I was advised to lie I would have reported this person to the manager or better still the head of First Choice.

Karen
http://www.orlandovillas.com/florida-vacation-rental-2185.aspx

Edited by - Kazzie on 10 May 2008 19:47:56

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Posted - 10 May 2008 : 21:03:08

Most of this discussion pre-supposes that your husband’s ‘criminal record’ prevents him from using the visa waiver.

Look at the question on the I94-W and read the US immigration regulations. If he can truthfully answer ‘No’ then there isn’t a problem. These are the important regulations.

quote:
http://www.travel.state.gov/visa/frvi/ineligibilities/ineligibilities_1364.html

To save you going to the link, below is the relevant quote on criminal grounds; there are further sub-paragraphs on terrorism and controlled substances:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(2) Criminal and related grounds.-

(A) Conviction of certain crimes.-

(i) In general.-Except as provided in clause (ii), any alien convicted of, or who admits having committed, or who admits committing acts which constitute the essential elements of-

(I) a crime involving moral turpitude (other than a purely political offense or an attempt or conspiracy to commit such a crime), or

(II) a violation of (or a conspiracy or attempt to violate) any law or regulation of a State, the United States, or a foreign country relating to a controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802)), is inadmissible.

(ii) Exception.-Clause (i)(I) shall not apply to an alien who committed only one crime if-

(I) the crime was committed when the alien was under 18 years of age, and the crime was committed (and the alien released from any confinement to a prison or correctional institution imposed for the crime) more than 5 years before the date of application for a visa or other documentation and the date of application for admission to the United States, or

(II) the maximum penalty possible for the crime of which the alien was convicted (or which the alien admits having committed or of which the acts that the alien admits having committed constituted the essential elements) did not exceed imprisonment for one year and, if the alien was convicted of such crime, the alien was not sentenced to a term of imprisonment in excess of 6 months (regardless of the extent to which the sentence was ultimately executed).

(B) Multiple criminal convictions.-Any alien convicted of 2 or more offenses (other than purely political offenses), regardless of whether the conviction was in a single trial or whether the offenses arose from a single scheme of misconduct and regardless of whether the offenses involved moral turpitude, for which the aggregate sentences to confinement were 5 years or more is inadmissible.

If he can’t answer ‘No’ or isn’t sure, then it is up to him what sort of risk he feels it is worth taking.

In all probability the chance of them finding out about a criminal record 25 years ago are minimal, but nevertheless it is a risk.

There is absolutely no point in asking the Embassy as they will refuse to discuss the matter in writing or on the telephone. So he will have to go to the Embassy for interview and he needs to obtain a memorandum of conviction from the court.

For many offences that in itself creates a problem because courts and the police are not very good at keeping records for 25 years and the UK Rehabilitation of Offenders legislation further complicates matters(and as said above that act does not apply in the USA)

If he has difficulty finding his Memorandum of Conviction, perhaps he can ask US Immigration if they have a copy, as some on this forum seem to think that the USA have access to all UK citizens criminal records

Edited by - Robert5988 on 10 May 2008 21:08:13

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Posted - 11 May 2008 : 10:08:29

thanks for that last posting. Its a bit confusing isnt it? I think he is probably covered by the exception clause but i need to check a few dates. thanks again

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Posted - 11 May 2008 : 10:27:50

Of course they do, it only costs £20 for me to get anyones UK criminal record. I have to do this for employees for some work contracts I have.

quote:
Originally posted by Robert5988

If he has difficulty finding his Memorandum of Conviction, perhaps he can ask US Immigration if they have a copy, as some on this forum seem to think that the USA have access to all UK citizens criminal records

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Posted - 11 May 2008 : 12:33:29

quote:
Of course they do, it only costs £20 for me to get anyones UK criminal record. I have to do this for employees for some work contracts I have

I did say if they have difficulty in getting hold of their criminal records from the Police/CRB/courts.

There have been many cases of people who go to the police or go themselves to the Criminal Records Bureau to get details of their record and there is nothing on record - neither have the courts any record.

The database held by the CRB is far from complete - especially for old convictions that were held manually.

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Posted - 13 May 2008 : 21:35:21

apparently an individual can not get a criminal records check. it has to be done through an organisation. they have advised me to contact my local police department inorder for them to carry out a pnc check. will let you know the outcome.

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Posted - 13 May 2008 : 21:48:23

It costs £20 through disclosure scotland an you can do it yourself.

quote:
Originally posted by jazmaleena
apparently an individual can not get a criminal records check. it has to be done through an organisation. they have advised me to contact my local police department inorder for them to carry out a pnc check. will let you know the outcome.

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Posted - 13 May 2008 : 22:45:16

quote:
apparently an individual can not get a criminal records check. it has to be done through an organisation. they have advised me to contact my local police department inorder for them to carry out a pnc check. will let you know the outcome.

quote:
an you can do it yourself

There may be some confusion here.

I, as an Individual, cannot get any information about another individual.

My understanding is that the CRB will not accept requests from an individual(for his own record) as they have no mechanism for checking identity.

So you have to go through the police. That appears to be confirmed by the link below, and what you stated. However that is only my understanding!

http://www.crb.gov.uk/Default.aspx?page=417

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Posted - 14 May 2008 : 08:35:51

No you cannot do it for someone else (unless you have the correct documentation). I always go through disclosure scotland, very simple process and never not being able to get a report back. You need a utility bill and driving license.

quote:
Originally posted by Robert5988
quote:
apparently an individual can not get a criminal records check. it has to be done through an organisation. they have advised me to contact my local police department inorder for them to carry out a pnc check. will let you know the outcome.

quote:
an you can do it yourself

There may be some confusion here.

I, as an Individual, cannot get any information about another individual.

My understanding is that the CRB will not accept requests from an individual(for his own record) as they have no mechanism for checking identity.

So you have to go through the police. That appears to be confirmed by the link below, and what you stated. However that is only my understanding!

http://www.crb.gov.uk/Default.aspx?page=417

http://www.orlandovillas.com/florida-vacation-rental-99.aspx

gwensvilla

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Posted - 15 May 2008 : 15:24:07

If you go to your local police office they give you a form to fill in and I think it was £10... then it is 4-8 weeks I believe before you get a reply... disclosure scotland can be quicker...Gwen

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Posted - 15 May 2008 : 15:58:55

DIsclosure scotland take around 48 hours for individual requests. If you do it as an employer it takes much longer.

quote:
Originally posted by gwensvilla
If you go to your local police office they give you a form to fill in and I think it was £10... then it is 4-8 weeks I believe before you get a reply... disclosure scotland can be quicker...Gwen

http://www.orlandovillas.com/florida-vacation-rental-99.aspx

gwensvilla

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Posted - 16 May 2008 : 11:32:35

disclosure scotland only does the basic check ... not the full one wanted by some companies or the extended one for specialist job requirements... there are 3 levels of "disclosure" gwen

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Posted - 16 May 2008 : 12:54:45

Disclosure Scotland do all 3 but only the basic one online. I was assuming the record in question did not include 'anything' to do with children was just a 'regular' type of arrest. For which a basic disclosure would show these.

quote:
Originally posted by gwensvilla
disclosure scotland only does the basic check ... not the full one wanted by some companies or the extended one for specialist job requirements... there are 3 levels of "disclosure" gwen