| Author |  Topic  |
blott
 United Kingdom
21274 Posts
Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Status: offline |  Posted - 04 Apr 2008 : 23:06:40  
| Robert, the US Embassy website states:
Important: Some travelers may not be eligible to enter the United States visa free under the VWP. These include people who have been arrested, even if the arrest did not result in a criminal conviction, those with criminal records, (the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act does not apply to U.S. visa law), certain serious communicable illnesses, those who have been refused admission into, or have been deported from, the United States, or have previously overstayed on the VWP. Such travelers must apply for special restricted visas. If they attempt to travel without a visa, they may be refused entry into the United States.
http://london.usembassy.gov/cons_new/visa/niv/vwp.html
If you try the Visa Waiver Wizard on their website at http://london.usembassy.gov/cons_new/visa/visa_wizard.html you'll see that they ask virtually the same question as above.
At the end of the day, it's up to each individual to decide what to do in their particular circumstances and take responsibility for their own decisions. |
Blott
www.orlandovillas.com/villas/150.aspx
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Robert5988
United Kingdom
1440 Posts
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Status: offline | Posted - 05 Apr 2008 : 00:23:29 
| quote:
Robert, the US Embassy website states:
Important: Some travelers may not be eligible to enter the United States visa free under the VWP. These include people who have been arrested, even if the arrest did not result in a criminal conviction, those with criminal records, (the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act does not apply to U.S. visa law), certain serious communicable illnesses, those who have been refused admission into, or have been deported from, the United States, or have previously overstayed on the VWP. Such travelers must apply for special restricted visas. If they attempt to travel without a visa, they may be refused entry into the United States.
http://london.usembassy.gov/cons_new/visa/niv/vwp.html
If you try the Visa Waiver Wizard on their website at http://london.usembassy.gov/cons_new/visa/visa_wizard.html you'll see that they ask virtually the same question as above.
At the end of the day, it's up to each individual to decide what to do in their particular circumstances and take responsibility for their own decisions.
Blott,
That quote above has been discussed and discussed.
Firstly! That US Embassy site for UK is not a set of regulations. It is guidance if you cannot interpret the US regulations.
Secondly! Go to the US Embassy site for Ireland and it doesn't give any such 'guidance'. Nor do some other country's US Embassy websites.
So if you are British and happen to read the Guidance in the UK embassy site(and not the US regulations), do you maintain that you cannot use a Waiver?
However if you read the US embassy site in another country you can use a waiver??
Or if you read the definitive US Immigration regulations, and are say Irish or from another country, you should have also taken it upon yourself to read the guidance in the UK site?
Thirdly, even that guidance you quote states "some travelers may not etc" Not all travelers who have been arrested cannot etc. That point is covered in the regulations in the small print about being arrested in connection with terrorism etc.
Lastly, what about the declaration on the I-94W? Are the questions about moral turpitude and 5 years jail etc absolutely meaningless? Does it not matter that they are broadly in line with US Regulations? Or should we ignore the question and answer 'Yes' because you were arrested in a case of mistaken identity?
Of course I agree that it is up to any individual to decide what to do in their particular circumstances, as with all things in life!!
If this forum advised that individual read the question on the I 94W and the US regulations that would be good advice.
However time and time again this forum has been unequivocal in its advice that any arrest means you cannot enter under a Visa waiver.
In fact there was equally strong advice that any conviction for any offence, however trivial, meant a Visa was required - ask Tonish. | | Report this post to a moderator | goto top of page |
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blott
United Kingdom
21274 Posts
Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Status: offline | Posted - 05 Apr 2008 : 01:33:35
| The 'may' part they have qualified in the visa waiver wizard section of the US Embassy website and relates to minor traffic offenses for which people haven't been arrested (apparently).
The ordinary 'person in the street' is only going to look on the US Embassy website if they bother to check out anything relating to US visas or visa waiver at all. I was quoting what they're going to find on that website.
Of course, you're correct that a few people won't have bothered to check anything out and will only be confronted by the I-94W when they either check in or they're already on the plane. Whatever their interpretation of that and what they fill in is really their responsibility.
I'm not sure that either of us is correct as is it is not up to us to interpret it, whatever we think the US actually means. I cannot provide advice for other people because I am certainly not qualified to do so - I don't know about you? But if we're saying that the US Embassy and its staff hasn't got a clue about its own legislation, then there's patently little hope for the rest of us! |
Blott
www.orlandovillas.com/villas/150.aspx
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Robert5988
United Kingdom
1440 Posts
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Status: offline | Posted - 05 Apr 2008 : 10:55:28
| quote:
The ordinary 'person in the street' is only going to look on the US Embassy website if they bother to check out anything relating to US visas or visa waiver at all. I was quoting what they're going to find on that website.
Which US Embassy website would that be then Blott?
The UK site or the Irish site(or the US Embassy site for other countries) and of course they should never go to the official US Immigration site and read the definitive regulations!!!! They might even find that an arrest doesn't prevent entry on a waiver.
All I am suggesting is that in future people on this forum stop stating with absolute certainty, "if you have ever been arrested you cannot enter under a waiver". and/or giving their interpretation of that guidance as a definitive regulation.
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Tonish
 United Kingdom
307 Posts
Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Status: offline | Posted - 09 Apr 2008 : 14:07:52
| I have been thinking of making an appointment with the embassy to discuss the "once a visa always a visa question", because I believe my wife was given a visa which she did not need. I can't think of any other way of getting a definitive answer so it's probably worth the visit.
I'll let you know if it gets me anywhere. |
Tonish | | Report this post to a moderator | goto top of page |
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steph_goodrum
 United Kingdom
6667 Posts
Joined: 12 Feb 2002
Status: offline | Posted - 09 Apr 2008 : 14:44:35
| Tonish
I don't know about your wife being granted a Visa she doesnt really need but I do know of several people who have applied for Visas, having been told by Immigration officers that they are going to get more detailed questioning each time they visit, if they make several visits a year, only to find when they get to the Embassy it has been denied because the Officer there says that if they have no record, illnesses etc and arent planning to stay for more than 90 then they dont need one. They have been told categorically that they can use the Visa waiver for as many trips as they like in a year. |
Babblin Boo
http://www.orlandovillas.com/villas/92.aspx
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Robert5988
United Kingdom
1440 Posts
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Status: offline | Posted - 09 Apr 2008 : 17:06:33
| Steph,
This has all been posted by Tonish on this forum; so there is nothing ‘in-confidence’!
Tonish’s wife has a Visa.
She applied for a Visa because of the strong advice given on this forum that the wording on the I94-W “ have you ever been arrested or convicted” very firmly meant that any arrest or any conviction meant you required a Visa and were ineligible for entry on the Visa Waiver scheme.
Tonish’s wife has a speeding conviction(as opposed to a fixed penalty notice which is not a conviction) so to be on the safe side, she got a Visa.
When she entered the USA the Immigration Officer was sceptical that anyone would have applied for a Visa for a speeding conviction, the implication was the she must have had a ‘skeleton in her cupboard’ and she was subjected to further questioning.
Obviously this situation is likely to re-occur.
Regarding your very valid point about multiple visits on a waiver being allowed. Again there was the strongest advice given on this forum that you couldn’t do this; a Visa must be obtained.
When it was pointed out by several of us that there is no restriction(I myself have visited 6 times a year for years) the advice from some on this forum was that you were lucky, or you are not acting in the spirit of the Visa waiver scheme and will get in trouble, 6 months is the maximum etc.
The other situation(which I have 'banged on' about above for long enough) is the advice given about being arrested.
As you are well aware, obtaining a Visa entails a huge amount of time, effort and money – a trip to London(or Belfast) and hours queuing at the embassy for a start.
Yet we have people on this and other Forums posting mis-information with the most authoritative wording and it gets repeated and repeated and gets accepted as fact.
The end result is that lots of people apply for Visas that they simply don't need | | Report this post to a moderator | goto top of page |
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Snapper
 United Kingdom
4164 Posts
Joined: 11 Apr 2004
Status: online | Posted - 09 Apr 2008 : 22:31:38
| quote:
Originally posted by Robert5988
When it was pointed out by several of us that there is no restriction(I myself have visited 6 times a year for years) the advice from some on this forum was that you were lucky, or you are not acting in the spirit of the Visa waiver scheme and will get in trouble, 6 months is the maximum etc.
Are you suggesting that it is OK to spend more than 6 months in any 12 month period in the US while travelling under the VWP? |
Steve.
http://www.orlandovillas.com/villas/1418.aspx | | Report this post to a moderator | goto top of page |
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Robert5988
United Kingdom
1440 Posts
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Status: offline | Posted - 09 Apr 2008 : 23:54:55
| quote:
Are you suggesting that it is OK to spend more than 6 months in any 12 month period in the US while travelling under the VWP?
Yes! without question.
As long as you fill all the requirements of the Visa Waiver program.
Discussed lots of times in this forum.
Firstly there is no restriction of 6 months or any period in the US regulations; or frequency of visits.
The guidance notes in the US Embassy website(FAQ) unequivocally stated there is no restriction on the number of times you can visit on a Waiver or any restriction on the interval between visits.
Just to pre-empt the usual comments, you have to satisfy the Immigration Officer that you fully meet ALL the conditions of the waiver.
Obviously no more than 90 days at a time, and you can't now go to a neighbouring country(Canada, Mexico etc) and return.
There could be tax implications etc etc.
In theory, you could spend 90 days in the USA, return to UK for a day, back to the USA for another 90 days, back to UK for a day etc etc(360 days each year) and go through that routine for as long as you wished, and US Immigration were happy.
At this point we normally get posts with conjecture of what would happen if you tried to do just that - and they may well be right. However there is nothing in the regulations to prevent you spending 360 days a year in the USA on a waiver.
My opinion(and it is just an opinion)is that US Immigration have no reason to prevent somebody who meets all the criteria for staying in the USA, and whom they are convinced have sufficient funds to not be a burden on Uncle Sam and eventually intend to return to the UK.
However if they did refuse to let you stay for lengthy periods, it would be because they had doubts about your intentions, and not because the regulations don't allow those stays. |
Edited by - Robert5988 on 10 Apr 2008 00:00:03 | | Report this post to a moderator | goto top of page |
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steph_goodrum
United Kingdom
6667 Posts
Joined: 12 Feb 2002
Status: offline | Posted - 10 Apr 2008 : 07:23:17
| | I know that is correct because on our last trip the Immigration Officer was very friendly and he commented on how many times we had visited the States. We said we just love finding new places and my husband said he'd like to move, given half a chance. The IO said you realise you can come in 90 days and then leave and come back for another 90etc and we said we couldnt at the moment because of work commitments and he said well at least when you retire you have that option and specifically said and if any other Officer tells you that you can't be done, ask him to show you where it's written that you can't, and he wont be able to because it isn't. |
Babblin Boo
http://www.orlandovillas.com/villas/92.aspx
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orlandodaze
 Ireland
1066 Posts
Joined: 24 Jan 2005
Status: offline | Posted - 10 Apr 2008 : 11:25:45
| Thats good to know ,is it my imagination or are US Immigration Officers getting more friendlier than they used to be ? .Maybe they have learned the importance of a  . |
Olive | | Report this post to a moderator | goto top of page |
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florida4sun
 United Kingdom
6525 Posts
Joined: 16 Feb 2002
Status: online | |
Robert5988
United Kingdom
1440 Posts
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Status: offline | Posted - 10 Apr 2008 : 13:13:10
| Just returning to the question of being arrested and/or being convicted and entry under a Visa Waiver.
Perusing the US Regulations I came across this question in the FAQ section on the Visa Waiver Program:
quote:
Question
Can I be admitted into the U.S. if I have either a misdemeanor or criminal record?
Answer
The U.S. does not deny entry to persons with a "Driving Under the Influence" conviction - although if there are multiple convictions for this and or other misdemeanors, you could be denied entry.
That also appears to be in line with all of the definitions(by precedence) for 'Offenses(sic) of Moral Turpitude' that I have read.
Now in the UK(and I believe most other countries) that offence always means an arrest and of course conviction speaks for itself.
Seems difficult to reconcile that statement, with the interpretation, of the US Embassy(for UK!!!) guidance notes, so often given on this forum. | | Report this post to a moderator | goto top of page |
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Katys Grandad
![]() United Kingdom
1106 Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2004
Status: offline | Posted - 10 Apr 2008 : 18:20:51
| quote:
Originally posted by Robert5988
Just returning to the question of being arrested and/or being convicted and entry under a Visa Waiver.
Perusing the US Regulations I came across this question in the FAQ section on the Visa Waiver Program:
quote:
Question
Can I be admitted into the U.S. if I have either a misdemeanor or criminal record?
Answer
The U.S. does not deny entry to persons with a "Driving Under the Influence" conviction - although if there are multiple convictions for this and or other misdemeanors, you could be denied entry.
That also appears to be in line with all of the definitions(by precedence) for 'Offenses(sic) of Moral Turpitude' that I have read.
Now in the UK(and I believe most other countries) that offence always means an arrest and of course conviction speaks for itself.
Seems difficult to reconcile that statement, with the interpretation, of the US Embassy(for UK!!!) guidance notes, so often given on this forum.
It's difficult to envisage a conviction for drink/driving without an arrest except perhaps where the driver is immediately taken to hospital and a blood test is taken there. If that were seen as an exception then the system is even more illogical that it seems.
I would also add that some of the examples given as offences of moral turpitude are not specific offences under English Law so it isn't possible to have a conviction for them from an English court.
I suspect that we have a case of American legal and cultural principles trying to be directly applied to UK citizens. No wonder it isn't clear!!
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Edited by - Katys Grandad on 10 Apr 2008 18:22:14 | | Report this post to a moderator | goto top of page |
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